Lack of 5D4 Info

[K]

With this camera supposedly being announced next month, and also supposedly being in the hands of dozens of testers in the field - there is a surprisingly low amount of leakage and information. What is going on? I don't think I've seen such a tight lipped release for such a highly anticipated camera before.

We only have regurgitation of some of the earliest rumors and specs, all of which could plausibly be logical predictions. One would think that the sensor MP count would be determined.

 

[wockawocka]

I'm not so sure we'll see it this year.

Photokina isn't until the end of September and even so I wouldn't be so sure Canon will use that to announce it. If they do it before then their thunder will be stolen by other brands shortly after so they may not announce until October.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Canon keeps announcements pretty secret. Info will dribble out, but in the past, full leaks only occur 5-10 days early, sometimes less.

I expect an announcement, if its going to happen for Photokina on about August 23, so we might get full info 5-7 days before.

 

[deletemyaccount]

I'm not a troll but I certainly hope Canon steps it up to become a leader once again. Their product cycles are ridiculously slow and I'd like to see paramount advances as illustrated with the 1DxII. Unfortunately much of Canon's advances seem to be conservative in nature. I'm quite invested in the system and hope they can push the envelop. I know there's plenty of Canon sells more, but I'd like to see leadership in their fine product.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I'm not a troll but I certainly hope Canon steps it up to become a leader once again. Their product cycles are ridiculously slow and I'd like to see paramount advances as illustrated with the 1DxII. Unfortunately much of Canon's advances seem to be conservative in nature. I'm quite invested in the system and hope they can push the envelop. I know there's plenty of Canon sells more, but I'd like to see leadership in their fine product.

The new Canon CEO has also said that he would like to see a shorter period to get new products to the market. But, a culture in a large company can be very slow to turn around. My old boss, Alan Mulally was one of those with that unique ability, his philosophy was a simple one, the workers and managers already know what's not working, and what will work better. They are waiting for someone to tell them to carry out the changes. That's all he did! Of course, some who did not go along with the plan found that they were out of a job in short order, particularly if they were working against the plan. That's where the Japanese have problems, no one gets fired or loses face, so the ship is very hard to steer.

 

[deletemyaccount]

I'm not a troll but I certainly hope Canon steps it up to become a leader once again. Their product cycles are ridiculously slow and I'd like to see paramount advances as illustrated with the 1DxII. Unfortunately much of Canon's advances seem to be conservative in nature. I'm quite invested in the system and hope they can push the envelop. I know there's plenty of Canon sells more, but I'd like to see leadership in their fine product.

The new Canon CEO has also said that he would like to see a shorter period to get new products to the market. But, a culture in a large company can be very slow to turn around. My old boss, Alan Mulally was one of those with that unique ability, his philosophy was a simple one, the workers and managers already know what's not working, and what will work better. They are waiting for someone to tell them to carry out the changes. That's all he did! Of course, some who did not go along with the plan found that they were out of a job in short order, particularly if they were working against the plan. That's where the Japanese have problems, no one gets fired or loses face, so the ship is very hard to steer.

Thanks Spokane, that gives a little clarity to the situation. I don't think it helps when we hear the voices of DPR and DXo spouting resolution and DR. I think it would be nice to just hear a different complaint. Still love my 5DIII .

 

[tpatana]

I was wondering same thing few days ago. Most likely they'll keep 5D4 quite safe until last minute so it doesn't impact 1DX2 sales. Like for me, this month there's event I'd love to carry 2 bodies. I already sold my second one to make room for next one, but until I know more about 5D4 I can't decide. If it turns out to be really bad, I'll just get 1DX2. If 5D4 is as good as I hope it to be, I'll certainly get that instead.

 

[pwp]

With this camera supposedly being announced next month, and also supposedly being in the hands of dozens of testers in the field - there is a surprisingly low amount of leakage and information. What is going on?

Aww never mind. Remember patience?

-pw

 

[K]

I was wondering same thing few days ago. Most likely they'll keep 5D4 quite safe until last minute so it doesn't impact 1DX2 sales. Like for me, this month there's event I'd love to carry 2 bodies. I already sold my second one to make room for next one, but until I know more about 5D4 I can't decide. If it turns out to be really bad, I'll just get 1DX2. If 5D4 is as good as I hope it to be, I'll certainly get that instead.

I doubt the 5D4 will best the 1DX2 on anything regarding the sensor with the sole exception of higher resolution. And even that will be completely negated by superior IQ of the 1DX2 after raising the ISO past a certain point. This was precisely the case between the 1DX and the 5D3. By ISO 400, the 1DX put out better overall IQ than the 5D3. Only at ISO 100 and 200 did the 5D3 arguably look better due to the slight megapixel advantage.

Thus, if one is not impressed by the 1DX2 sensor performance, my suggestion is to not put too much hope in the 5D4. It will not be better. At best, maybe, just maybe - the DR performance might be a little tiny bit better at low ISO but will sacrifice it more at higher ISO compared to the 1DX2. All depends how they 'tune' this sensor.

My guess is that the 6D2 or whatever next FF comes next year will be in some ways close to or equal to the 1DX2 due to advancements made. Exactly the same scenario as how the 6D had a better sensor than the 5D3, and the 6D came close to the 1DX. Although, not without being a significantly weaker camera in all other aspects.

Making the 5D4 too good can hurt 1D series sales. The above user's post is evidence of just that.

This means that the 5D4 will remain noticeably behind other brand competitors in this range of semi-pro/pro camera. A clear indication that Canon would rather protect high end pro sales than prevent defectors of mid-range pro camera users to Nikon.

Makes sense. I'd rather ensure I keep people buying $6000 cameras than those buying $3000 cameras. Because a lot of those 1D series guys are also running nothing but top-end L glass. And the sports shooters, super high dollar telephotos.

The 5D level shooters hammering out weddings every week could care less for an extra stop of DR or anything else that DXO or DPR cares about. They need a workhorse to crank out images. Canon is a better system for that.

In the end, Canon is bleeding out the techies. Those who care more about small tech differences than making money or creating serious art. These tech enthusiasts who are photo enthusiasts second, most of them have already gone to Nikon/Sony in the last 4 years. Not many disappointed Canon users left who are hoping and holding out for Sony-like sensor performance.

Canon keeps moving forward with the agenda to satisfy serious photography needs. Not DXO and DPR.

 

[Ozarker]

I'm not a troll but I certainly hope Canon steps it up to become a leader once again. Their product cycles are ridiculously slow and I'd like to see paramount advances as illustrated with the 1DxII. Unfortunately much of Canon's advances seem to be conservative in nature. I'm quite invested in the system and hope they can push the envelop. I know there's plenty of Canon sells more, but I'd like to see leadership in their fine product.

Heck, I can't keep up with the product cycle as it is.

However, I don't make any money on my photos to recoup the investment. I'll be very happy with skipping a generation or even two on bodies.

From what I have gathered, new generations on lenses are much slower. I'm even happier with that.

Even though I will not be buying the Mark IV it still feels like a kid waiting for Christmas to see what will be under the hood.

 

[Perio]

Canon keeps announcements pretty secret. Info will dribble out, but in the past, full leaks only occur 5-10 days early, sometimes less.

I expect an announcement, if its going to happen for Photokina on about August 23, so we might get full info 5-7 days before.

Agree completely.

 

[kaihp]

I was wondering same thing few days ago. Most likely they'll keep 5D4 quite safe until last minute so it doesn't impact 1DX2 sales. Like for me, this month there's event I'd love to carry 2 bodies. I already sold my second one to make room for next one, but until I know more about 5D4 I can't decide. If it turns out to be really bad, I'll just get 1DX2. If 5D4 is as good as I hope it to be, I'll certainly get that instead.

I doubt the 5D4 will best the 1DX2 on anything regarding the sensor with the sole exception of higher resolution.

Add a more silent shutter to that list

As for 5D4's eating into the 1DX2 sales, there is another way to look at it: price ranges. I recently got a used 1DX for about the same price as we expect the 5D4 to be introduced to.

Now, the 5D4 may not be able to meet what I was looking for (better/faster AF system for sports), but if it had been announced and if it had promises of a 1DXesque-like AF performance, I might have waited and bought it over the 1DX. Those are some big if's, but it does demonstrate that it's not a straight new-A vs new-B shootout - it's also a shootout for "X" amount of $$$, and there a used camera can also be in the mix.

 

[tpatana]

I was wondering same thing few days ago. Most likely they'll keep 5D4 quite safe until last minute so it doesn't impact 1DX2 sales. Like for me, this month there's event I'd love to carry 2 bodies. I already sold my second one to make room for next one, but until I know more about 5D4 I can't decide. If it turns out to be really bad, I'll just get 1DX2. If 5D4 is as good as I hope it to be, I'll certainly get that instead.

I doubt the 5D4 will best the 1DX2 on anything regarding the sensor with the sole exception of higher resolution. And even that will be completely negated by superior IQ of the 1DX2 after raising the ISO past a certain point. This was precisely the case between the 1DX and the 5D3. By ISO 400, the 1DX put out better overall IQ than the 5D3. Only at ISO 100 and 200 did the 5D3 arguably look better due to the slight megapixel advantage.

Thus, if one is not impressed by the 1DX2 sensor performance, my suggestion is to not put too much hope in the 5D4. It will not be better. At best, maybe, just maybe - the DR performance might be a little tiny bit better at low ISO but will sacrifice it more at higher ISO compared to the 1DX2. All depends how they 'tune' this sensor.

Now you're assuming things about why I'd want 5D4, and incorrectly so.

Reasons for me to wait 5D4:

-ISO100 for studio work
-Better video than 1DX2 (someone at Canon interview mentioned, not 100% confirmed though)
-Silent shutter
-Detacheable grip
-Price

Reasons for me to go for 1DX2:
-I occasionally would like to carry 2 sports bodies
-It's already available

Difficult choice, that's why I'm hoping they'd release the 5D4 specks soon so I can better compare/estimate which one to go for. Or dark horse contender 5DsR, which has most same reasons as I list above for 5D4, but the video.