Latest Canon disappoints wants me to switch over to Nikon.

[briansquibb]

* IS does not make a lens less sharp or otherwise optically inferior ... e.,g. the EF 70-200 4 L IS is sharper than the non-IS variant
* IS is dirt cheap ... I bet it costs Canon less than 50 $/€ on a non-supertele lens like e.g. the 24-70

I find the 24-70 II at a price tag of € 2299 just ludicrous without IS.

Lets deal with this point at a time:

* IS does not make a lens less sharp or otherwise optically inferior

An IS lens is a different design from a non IS. It is not just a question of slapping on a gizmo. Precedent of the 70-200 f/2.8 meant that the non IS version was market leading when introduced. The IS version had significantly worse IQ.

* IS is dirt cheap

Manufacturing cost may be low - but R&D is very high per unit sold. It is a brand new lens design.

* I find the 24-70 II at a price tag of € 2299 just ludicrous without IS

The price tag is Canon's top dollar price, street price will be significantly lower

This lens in a pro lens - if the quality is at the level indicated in the published MTF charts then there will be a move away from prime lens to this zoom. This has already happened with the 70-200 f/2.8II (which I believe will be about the same street price as the 24-70II)

In the pro world $2000 does not make it an expensive lens. Look at a sports event at the large whites which are probably well over $5000 each.

IS is not such an issue for the majority of the intended market for this lens. If they get 95% of market penetration then that will be a sucess for them.

I suggest we wait for the reviews to come through before we judge and come to any conclusions. History is littered with prejudgements that have proved unfounded in the harsh light of day

 

[SF DTM]

On Tuesday I seriously went through the whole "switching to Nikon" conversation with a couple buddies. The D4 looks sexy as hell but I have a 1DX Pre-Ordered and after 3 days of going back and forth i'm giving Canon the benefit of the doubt and going to give them some time to explain what's been going on.

They haven't dropped the ball yet but not keeping in touch with their customers is just frustrating as hell. Nikon is constantly giving their customers info and every time they announce a new camera - the pre-orders are ready to be taken and everything is good. I feel like Canon always just rushes their announcements just to shut people up.

Now just waiting for high res ISO samples >_<

 

[kennykodak]

On Tuesday I seriously went through the whole "switching to Nikon" conversation with a couple buddies. The D4 looks sexy as hell but I have a 1DX Pre-Ordered and after 3 days of going back and forth i'm giving Canon the benefit of the doubt and going to give them some time to explain what's been going on.

They haven't dropped the ball yet but not keeping in touch with their customers is just frustrating as hell. Nikon is constantly giving their customers info and every time they announce a new camera - the pre-orders are ready to be taken and everything is good. I feel like Canon always just rushes their announcements just to shut people up.

likewise i have a 1DX on pre-order and the camera shop crunching the numbers to switch to Nikon.

 

[EYEONE]

On Tuesday I seriously went through the whole "switching to Nikon" conversation with a couple buddies. The D4 looks sexy as hell but I have a 1DX Pre-Ordered and after 3 days of going back and forth i'm giving Canon the benefit of the doubt and going to give them some time to explain what's been going on.

They haven't dropped the ball yet but not keeping in touch with their customers is just frustrating as hell. Nikon is constantly giving their customers info and every time they announce a new camera - the pre-orders are ready to be taken and everything is good. I feel like Canon always just rushes their announcements just to shut people up.

Now just waiting for high res ISO samples >_<

Explain to me why the D4 is more appealing than the 1Dx. Other than the fact that it's "sexy as hell" and will be out 30 days before the 1Dx. I'm just curious.

 

[briansquibb]

I cant believe that people are getting ready to jump ship when neither body has had a full review and neither is shipping.

OK - talk through this scenario then:

One buys the D4 and loses a whole bunch of money on the lens etc

A month later the 1DX is reviewed and shown to be hands down better than the D4

What would you do next?

- go back to Canon and lose more money?
- suffer an inferior product for the next 2 or 3 years until the replacements are announced?

 

[thepancakeman]

I cant believe that people are getting ready to jump ship when neither body has had a full review and neither is shipping.

OK - talk through this scenario then:

One buys the D4 and loses a whole bunch of money on the lens etc

A month later the 1DX is reviewed and shown to be hands down better than the D4

What would you do next?

- go back to Canon and lose more money?
- suffer an inferior product for the next 2 or 3 years until the replacements are announced?

I agree, when you're talking about the 1DX vs. the D4. But as Neuro pointed out elsewhere, if you're comparing the D800 to....? The 5D Mk II? Canon needs to have some sort of announcement before that thing starts shipping or we're stuck waiting for a body that might never arrive.

 

[briansquibb]

I cant believe that people are getting ready to jump ship when neither body has had a full review and neither is shipping.

OK - talk through this scenario then:

One buys the D4 and loses a whole bunch of money on the lens etc

A month later the 1DX is reviewed and shown to be hands down better than the D4

What would you do next?

- go back to Canon and lose more money?
- suffer an inferior product for the next 2 or 3 years until the replacements are announced?

I agree, when you're talking about the 1DX vs. the D4. But as Neuro pointed out elsewhere, if you're comparing the D800 to....? The 5D Mk II? Canon needs to have some sort of announcement before that thing starts shipping or we're stuck waiting for a body that might never arrive.

The same argument applies - if you have a 5DII do you NEED to move in the next couple of months or can you wait patiently to see what happens for a couple of months? Making the wrong decision based on short term desire might cost a lot more than waiting

 

[thepancakeman]

I cant believe that people are getting ready to jump ship when neither body has had a full review and neither is shipping.

OK - talk through this scenario then:

One buys the D4 and loses a whole bunch of money on the lens etc

A month later the 1DX is reviewed and shown to be hands down better than the D4

What would you do next?

- go back to Canon and lose more money?
- suffer an inferior product for the next 2 or 3 years until the replacements are announced?

I agree, when you're talking about the 1DX vs. the D4. But as Neuro pointed out elsewhere, if you're comparing the D800 to....? The 5D Mk II? Canon needs to have some sort of announcement before that thing starts shipping or we're stuck waiting for a body that might never arrive.

The same argument applies - if you have a 5DII do you NEED to move in the next couple of months or can you wait patiently to see what happens for a couple of months? Making the wrong decision based on short term desire might cost a lot more than waiting

Sorta. But how long do you wait? People have been expecting the Mk III to appear any minute now for at least a year. So yeah, we would HOPE that something is coming soon, but there by no means a guarantee. That's why I think Canon needs to at least announce something soon or people are just going to be too tired of the waiting.

 

[RuneL]

Whatever we do we will "lose". Something better will always come along. It makes little to no sense speculating in what will be released and when. 6 months later something better will be available regardless of what you do.

Buy, enjoy, don't get upset. They make money from us.

 

[briansquibb]

Sorta. But how long do you wait? People have been expecting the Mk III to appear any minute now for at least a year. So yeah, we would HOPE that something is coming soon, but there by no means a guarantee. That's why I think Canon needs to at least announce something soon or people are just going to be too tired of the waiting.

I would wait until I need to change not because I would like to change.

I bought a used 1Ds3 as a tactical purchase as an upgrade for my 5D2 - series 1 waterproofing, Af and 5fps etc. Only limitation is the max iso 3200 - which for me is not an issue. In return I have much better pictures coming through.

I dont claim that Nikon is better than Canon or Canon is better than Nikon. They both have their strengths and weaknesses.

When I bought my 5D2 the only camera that gave a better IQ was the 1Ds3. That is still the case I believe, that is until the latest generation overtake them - but we have no reviews yet that verifies that

I believe that the quality of an image is more than mps - so mps on their own dont excite me unless there is insufficient to get a top A2 image - which 21mp gets.

The cameras dont get worse as they get older - the 5DII is still giving the same top IQ as it did 2 years ago. That was good enough then and is good enough now (although I prefer the 1Ds3 colors).

To improve the IQ of the images the manufacturers need to get the image better than the best film - which has not happened because of he limited dynamic range from digital sensors.

In my usual way here is a pretty picture from the 1Ds3 which I took today

1Ds3, 70-200II@102, iso400, f/4.5, 1/100

 

[thepancakeman]

I would wait until I need to change not because I would like to change.

Gotcha this time! Unless you're putting bread on the table and a roof over your head with your photography, you don't need to take pictures. We do it because it's fun, rewarding, self-expressive, etc, but us non-pros don't need a camera at all. :

So whether it's a want for better AF, more MP, or simply something that doesn't have scuff marks on it, there are plenty of consumers looking for a new camera right now. As RuneL points out, there is always something theoretically better just on the horizon, so waiting for the next great thing can be a never ending process.

If it just weren't for the investment in the dang glass, it'd be easy to be more brand agnostic and go with whatever seems good when I want a new camera.

 

[briansquibb]

I would wait until I need to change not because I would like to change.

Gotcha this time! Unless you're putting bread on the table and a roof over your head with your photography, you don't need to take pictures. We do it because it's fun, rewarding, self-expressive, etc, but us non-pros don't need a camera at all. :

So whether it's a want for better AF, more MP, or simply something that doesn't have scuff marks on it, there are plenty of consumers looking for a new camera right now. As RuneL points out, there is always something theoretically better just on the horizon, so waiting for the next great thing can be a never ending process.

If it just weren't for the investment in the dang glass, it'd be easy to be more brand agnostic and go with whatever seems good when I want a new camera.

'If it just weren't for the investment in the dang glass, it'd be easy to be more brand agnostic '

If the finance is not a deal breaker then switching brands is not an issue.

As we are talking about top of the range then there is a strong likelyhood that there is a significant invesment in glass and other brand specific extras which increase the probability of financial influence on changing brands.

Each individual has their own perceived wants and needs.

I am just suggesting that before jumping to stop and consider the needs (as defined by themselves - even a scuff becomes a need for some).

However a brand new technology D800 will always look sweet against a four year 5DII. To wait until the D800 has been reviewed might well be a prudent minimum wait time.

We are talking top of range here so there are other tactical options available if the need to upgrade is needed (like a 7D/5DII?) from a consumer body