Lens Fungus - Advice Needed

[pgsdeepak]

Hello Folks - My favorite lens - the Canon 100mm Macro (Non L) is showing Fungus in the inside glass element. I appeared about 2 years back. I sent it to canon for clean up (costed me around $100 with CPS membership). It came back neat. But after this summer, it re-appeared. I don't know if its worth spending another $100 again. So I tried to trade it in Amazon. But they are sending it back saying the lens is in unacceptable condition. I did not find it really bad yet, its somewhere in the starting stage I believe. So far I don't see any impact on the image quality as such. Also my other lens are not impacted so far. I would like to get the advice of the knowledgable folks here on what to do next. My options I think are
1. Get a new 100mm non L lens. Is the lens prone to fungus or its just that the piece I have has some issues?
2. Get the L version. Is it safe to assume the weather sealing of the L will prevent fungus to some extend? Assuming no one will give anything for my current lens, this is a bit of an additional expense for me. I don't make money from photography..Just crazy about taking pictures
3. Live with the current lens.

Are there any other places where I can trade it in (BH and Best buy does not offer much, and I am not sure they will also reject it). I don't want to sell it to an individual knowing that the lens has a problem.
Also any precautions required for the other lenses and the camera?
thanks for your help.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I doubt anyone will take a lens with fungus, it's a sure bet it'll get worse over time.

The 100L would not be any different – weather-sealed lenses aren't hermetically sealed, air moves in and out and will bring spores with it. Rather, something about the way you use/store the lens is worth a look. Mold likes dark and humid, and lenses are usually stored in the dark. There are 'dry cabinets' that will regulate relative humidity to levels that inhibit mold/fungal growth. Personally, I store my gear in Pelican/Storm cases with desiccant cartridges to remove the moisture. Long term storage like would prevent fungus, but could cause a different issue – drying out of gaskets/lubricants. But I use my lenses, so the cases get opened frequently enough.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

You can list it on ebay with the story you have here, but it might be better to have it repaired. The lens elements can be replaced, and the lens cleaned, but, as Neuro said, keep it dry, once those spores get in, a annual cleaning might be in order until you are certain that it is not going to recur.

 

[thelebaron]

why exactly is lens fungus so hard to get rid of?

 

[Hillsilly]

If you don't see any deterioration in image quality, just learn to live with it. The fungus is probably embedded in the glue holding the lens together. Short of an expensive complete rebuild, a repair is just going to give you a temporary reprieve. And if you list the lens accurately for sale, you won't get much interest.

I've had a number of lenses with fungus problems. In my case, I suspect it is because I use my gear in the rain and I live in a hot, humid climate, creating an ideal environment. One home remedy to try is to leave your lens out in the sun for a few days/week as some fungi don't like UV. This won't fix up any etching currently there, but might hinder future growth. (If you try this, place the lens on something which isn't inflammable.)

 

[Marsu42]

Hello Folks - My favorite lens - the Canon 100mm Macro (Non L) is showing Fungus in the inside glass element. I appeared about 2 years back. I sent it to canon for clean up (costed me around $100 with CPS membership). It came back neat. But after this summer, it re-appeared. I don't know if its worth spending another $100 again.

No, it isn't - if you shoot in these conditions, upgrade to the L. I chose to, but only after receiving my 2nd €200 repair bill after the aperture broke down again and again.

So I tried to trade it in Amazon. But they are sending it back saying the lens is in unacceptable condition. I did not find it really bad yet, its somewhere in the starting stage I believe.

Rightly so. I didn't read your description, but have to say I don't like folks trying to sell of their nearly broken gear (failing shutter) online, hoping the dumb buyer will only notice if it's too late. If you want to try such a thing, be very verbal and honest about the problem. Probably in this case, you weren't.

Live with the current lens.

This first, as it's lost anyway you can abuse it as you like which is nice for outdoor shooting, too.

Get the L version. Is it safe to assume the weather sealing of the L will prevent fungus to some extend?

This second - the sealing has a great impact on how quickly outdoor humidity gets inside the lens. As written by the other posters, you still have to store it in a smarter way than you did with your old lens.

 

[neuroanatomist]

...the sealing has a great impact on how quickly outdoor humidity gets inside the lens.

By definition, 'humidity' is the amount of water in a gaseous state dissolved in the air. Individual molecules of H2O floating around, and those water molecules are smaller than the molecules of nitrogen gas that compose most of the air. So, unless the sealing is capable of keeping air from moving in and out of the lens (it's not!), that sealing will have no effect on humidity entering the lens.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

One way to prevent the spread of fungi is to use ultra violet light "C". Filters are used to kill microbes in aquarium, with a lamp that emits UV light "C". But careful not to expose your skin or eyes in this light that damages the DNA of the cells is can cause cancer in the body parts that were exposed to this light.

 

[Marsu42]

...the sealing has a great impact on how quickly outdoor humidity gets inside the lens.

By definition, 'humidity' is the amount of water in a gaseous state dissolved in the air.

Oh my, you're getting my "smartest native speaker of the day" award ... in that case, let me change my statement to "water in a liquid state or gaseous water condensing at the lens into a liquid state".

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Will storing a lens with desiccant help if the lens already has a fungus?

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

Will storing a lens with desiccant help if the lens already has a fungus?

Can avoid the rapid growth of the fungus, but does not prevent it happens over the years. In fact, any lens that changes your size when zooming, (or for focus) is more likely to suck spores, which are the "seeds" of fungi.

 

[Marsu42]

In fact, any lens that changes your size when zooming, (or for focus) is more likely to suck spores, which are the "seeds" of fungi.

... which excludes the 100 non-L the op has. The problem with this lens is that its really unsealed, looking at my old copy of it there seem to be a lot of gaps where outside [enter appropriate scientific phrase here] can enter.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

...the sealing has a great impact on how quickly outdoor humidity gets inside the lens.

By definition, 'humidity' is the amount of water in a gaseous state dissolved in the air. Individual molecules of H2O floating around, and those water molecules are smaller than the molecules of nitrogen gas that compose most of the air. So, unless the sealing is capable of keeping air from moving in and out of the lens (it's not!), that sealing will have no effect on humidity entering the lens.

+1 - Agree! Well put. Even the spores can't be kept out unless filters are used that are fine enough. I don't think lenses have HEPA filters. Simply storing the lenses in a container that is a few degrees warmer than the surrounding air will reduce the humidity. It's not much more complicated than that. That's what is done in gun safes to prevent rust. In most areas of the country and air conditioned spaces, things are good without any extra effort. But if you are in a humid area, extra measures may be necc.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

One way to prevent the spread of fungi is to use ultra violet light "C". Filters are used to kill microbes in aquarium, with a lamp that emits UV light "C". But careful not to expose your skin or eyes in this light that damages the DNA of the cells is can cause cancer in the body parts that were exposed to this light.

Folks, again, it doesn't have to be complicated. UV light can be hazardous and we aren't purifying water here. Just make the lens storage container a few degrees warmer than the surrounding air to reduce the humidity. Don't bake the stuff, just keep it a little warmer. Desiccants are not zero maintenance, they can become saturated and must be "reset". Or, move the equipment to a room that has a good AC unit that maintains a low enough humidity level.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Just make the lens storage container a few degrees warmer than the surrounding air to reduce the humidity. Don't bake the stuff, just keep it a little warmer. Desiccants are not zero maintenance, they can become saturated and must be "reset".

Are there suitable battery-operated solutions for that, or would AC power be required? I store my gear in my walk-in closet (the 'his' of the his-and-hers pair in our bedroom). There's space, but no outlets. Desiccant cartridges don't need power in use, and while most the ones I use can be regenerated, they're basically disposable cartridges (desiccant in a Petri dish bottom with a mesh filter cover). I'm in the cases frequently enough to check the indicator color. In my largest case, I recently switched to an EvaDry 333, which can be regenerated by plugging it in overnight.

 

[sdsr]

Since the fungus doesn't have any effect on the images you make with the lens, and you really want to be rid of it, you could try selling it if you explain the situation and provide a suitable photo recently taken with it. You probably won't get much for it, of course. But why not just keep on using the lens until it affects your images (presumably you should keep it stored separately from your other lenses)? Look at it this way: it's a relatively inexpensive lens which has evidently served you well for several years; so you've probably gotten your money's worth out of it, figuratively if not literally. I would rather buy a used one (or a used L) than spend any more getting it cleaned.

 

[VitC]

Fungus is stronger than we are . But eventually you may have a very nice lens for soft portraits, or flower shots. Think of all the filters photographers used to spend money on to soften images.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

Just make the lens storage container a few degrees warmer than the surrounding air to reduce the humidity. Don't bake the stuff, just keep it a little warmer. Desiccants are not zero maintenance, they can become saturated and must be "reset".

Are there suitable battery-operated solutions for that, or would AC power be required? I store my gear in my walk-in closet (the 'his' of the his-and-hers pair in our bedroom). There's space, but no outlets. Desiccant cartridges don't need power in use, and while most the ones I use can be regenerated, they're basically disposable cartridges (desiccant in a Petri dish bottom with a mesh filter cover). I'm in the cases frequently enough to check the indicator color. In my largest case, I recently switched to an EvaDry 333, which can be regenerated by plugging it in overnight.

Everything I've ever seen has required power. And like you, I'm into and move my stuff enough that this has never been a problem for me. (Plus I live in North Texas which is more humid than West Texas where I used to live but not near as humid as some parts of the country that have bigger fungus problems.)

I think you've found a good compromise neuro. I like it! Assuming you have several of these plug-in desiccant units, I figure you simply swap them out on a regular basis.

Or, you could retrofit your pelican cases with pass through waterproof electrical connectors. (Bit of work though...)
Ideas for the concept, not links to anything I've used myself...
http://www.fuertecases.com/wireseal_install.html (A call to these guys might provide some ideas too.)
http://www.downwindmarine.com/Hella-Plugs-amp-Sockets-Plastic-Waterproof-p-91001847.html
http://sell.lulusoso.com/selling-leads/1601298/3pins-Power-Panel-Mount-Waterproof-Connector.html

This is an example of a simple Dehumidifier Rod used in gun safes. http://www.amazon.com/Lockdown-Dehumidifier-Rod/dp/B00NW2Y914
A hole would need to be drilled unless you just wanted to have the cord hang out under the lid. When I'm storing my stuff, I don't usually lock down the locks anyway. (You don't want to hurt the seal material.)

In my large main safe, I have power and data network cable run into the safe. I put a small NAS unit in the safe to hold image backups and data from all of our computers on the network. This unit creates heat which keeps things warm in the safe, hence acts as a dehumidifier in the process.

 

[mnclayshooter]

This is a post not about how to rid yourself of existing lens fungus, but more about why we still have the problem of lens fungus.

With all of the advancements in anti-microbial materials and technology developed to maintain interior environments, why can't we (collectively) come up with some kind of insert that can go inside the body of the lens and outgas an anti-fungal or fungus-averse gas or otherwise make the interior of the lens body unfavorable for microbial development/colonization? It seems like it should be possible - we have drop-in filters for some lenses, a very similar cartridge-type system could be employed, if the material was a consumable... otherwise things like Ag+ (silver ion) are commonly used in modern sports apparel/equipment to help mitigate some of the body odors caused by microbes. Seems like it shouldn't be a big brainstorm/leap to incorporate similar technology into the lens body.

The issue is that the lens body "breathes"... therefore you cannot realistically keep out both the spores and the food source/water that they need to continue propagation... at least not without significant filtering at the "breathing" points of the lens.

Anyone out there with sound scientific reasoning why an antimicrobial treatment wouldn't work?

 

[RustyTheGeek]

This is a post not about how to rid yourself of existing lens fungus, but more about why we still have the problem of lens fungus.

With all of the advancements in anti-microbial materials and technology developed to maintain interior environments, why can't we (collectively) come up with some kind of insert that can go inside the body of the lens and outgas an anti-fungal or fungus-averse gas or otherwise make the interior of the lens body unfavorable for microbial development/colonization? It seems like it should be possible - we have drop-in filters for some lenses, a very similar cartridge-type system could be employed, if the material was a consumable... otherwise things like Ag+ (silver ion) are commonly used in modern sports apparel/equipment to help mitigate some of the body odors caused by microbes. Seems like it shouldn't be a big brainstorm/leap to incorporate similar technology into the lens body.

The issue is that the lens body "breathes"... therefore you cannot realistically keep out both the spores and the food source/water that they need to continue propagation... at least not without significant filtering at the "breathing" points of the lens.

Anyone out there with sound scientific reasoning why an antimicrobial treatment wouldn't work?

Oh, I'm overflowing with sound scientific reasoning!! (At least to me anyway!)

I'm with you mnclayshooter, and I agree. How hard could it be to simply have a long lasting anti-microbial coating or something else to hamper the fungus long term? It's not like these lenses are cheap. A few more dollars for some kind of feature, whatever it has to be, to prevent fungus without affecting IQ would be welcome in my book.

One way might be to just make the lens out of pure silver. There! Done! I wonder how that would affect the price and weight? And would we have to send the lens in occasionally to have it polished? ;D