More 7DII focus problems

[FEBS]

The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester i had.

Yeah, my Subaru station wagon isn't the fastest car out there, but it beat the pants off the Porsche I test drove.

Whatever, bub.

You have added zero the conversation. And youre not funny.

Unlike your nonsense comment, I have the pictures.

Pictures of what? Of the impossibility to get an excellent AF of the 7D2?

That seems to me the same feeling as Neuro mentioned by comparing the Subaru and the Porsche. To be clear, the reason there is the driver, not the car.

 

[ashmadux]

The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester i had.

Yeah, my Subaru station wagon isn't the fastest car out there, but it beat the pants off the Porsche I test drove.

Whatever, bub.

You have added zero the conversation. And youre not funny.

Unlike your nonsense comment, I have the pictures.

Pictures of what? Of the impossibility to get an excellent AF of the 7D2?

That seems to me the same feeling as Neuro mentioned by comparing the Subaru and the Porsche. To be clear, the reason there is the driver, not the car.

To be clear, how did you come to that conclusion? Details, please.

 

[FEBS]

The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester i had.

Yeah, my Subaru station wagon isn't the fastest car out there, but it beat the pants off the Porsche I test drove.

Whatever, bub.

You have added zero the conversation. And youre not funny.

Unlike your nonsense comment, I have the pictures.

Pictures of what? Of the impossibility to get an excellent AF of the 7D2?

That seems to me the same feeling as Neuro mentioned by comparing the Subaru and the Porsche. To be clear, the reason there is the driver, not the car.

To be clear, how did you come to that conclusion? Details, please.

When I look at what you are shooting, then I see mostly static subjects (people, landscape,..). I mostly do action photography. I had a low keepers rate in the beginning on the 7D, but only after a lot of testing, experimenting, reading, I was able to increase that rate. After buying a 5D3, I did see that the AF system of the 5D3 was much better then the 7D. I used the 5D3 a lot for action photography just because of the better AF compared to the 7D, even if I only had 6fps instead of 8fps. Then I did buy a 1Dx. My keeper rate there was never low. Why, because I knew the AF system. The 1Dx is a little better then the AF of the 5D3, but behaves the same. When I bought my 7D2 several weeks ago, I knew what I was getting. The AF system is complex, it has a few points more compared the 5D3 or 1Dx, but the different AF settings are almost the same. I never had a problem about missing AF with the 7D2. Why, because I fully understand and have experience with the AF system. No, this is not a camera I would advice to a starter, because there are much better cameras to start with.

The comparing with the cars that Neuro made is just the same. If you are not used to drive a Porsche with manual gearbox and manual clutch and compare that with the car you are used to with automatic gearbox. Then you will decide an hour later that it is to complicated, that he is missing the contact between driver and road, but if you learn to use that car, then you will regret to step in your regular car again.

Don't get me wrong, for portraits and landscape the 6D is much better then the 7D2, but for action, no men, that will be won by the 7D2 when you can drive that car .

 

[takesome1]

The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester i had.

Yeah, my Subaru station wagon isn't the fastest car out there, but it beat the pants off the Porsche I test drove.

Whatever, bub.

You have added zero the conversation. And youre not funny.

Unlike your nonsense comment, I have the pictures.

Pictures of what? Of the impossibility to get an excellent AF of the 7D2?

That seems to me the same feeling as Neuro mentioned by comparing the Subaru and the Porsche. To be clear, the reason there is the driver, not the car.

To be clear, how did you come to that conclusion? Details, please.

Sometimes people debate specifications and not performance. The two are not the same. While the specifications may indicate a certain level of performance they seldom guarantee it. The specifications are a good salesman tool.

The 7D II has AF specs similar to the 1D x, it doesn't mean it will drive like the 1D x.
The 7D II AF is ok, it is good. It doesn't come close to the performance of a 1D body.

The 7D II I have found several problems in single shot, single point mode. It has a harder time making critical focus on a smaller point than either my 5D II or 7D IV. If you move off of the center point and use a different point your precision goes down.

Given certain circumstances, for instance the type of pictures the OP was taking, a 5D II or 6D may perform better. IMO and experience it will perform better.

The 7D II is a $1,799 body. It is the best value Canon has in a new body. For the price the AF system could be rated as excellent. In a $6K 1D body the AF system would be sub-par and unacceptable.

 

[takesome1]

The comparing with the cars that Neuro made is just the same. If you are not used to drive a Porsche with manual gearbox and manual clutch and compare that with the car you are used to with automatic gearbox. Then you will decide an hour later that it is to complicated, that he is missing the contact between driver and road, but if you learn to use that car, then you will regret to step in your regular car again.

Don't get me wrong, for portraits and landscape the 6D is much better then the 7D2, but for action, no men, that will be won by the 7D2 when you can drive that car .

Here is the car comparison problem as it relates to these two bodies.
You are comparing cars.
You should be comparing a car to a pickup truck.
An action camera to a stills camera.

I found the 5DII to be more accurate for still photography than the 7D. It wouldn't be beyond possible that the 5DIII or 6D would be more accurate than the 7D II for still photography.

 

[candc]

There are a couple threads running about this at the moment. I went back and checked the AF manual to see what the camera is supposed to be doing with "all points selected" in one shot mode it's supposed to focus on the closest object but in ai servo it starts out on a preselected point (not the closest) and is supposed to track whatever is under that point around the frame. There are some menu settings to change the way that works but maybe part of the problem is that people are expecting the same behaviour when switching from single shot to ai servo?

 

[MonkeyB]

This is good advice I think for me. I took a similar set of party pics, and I was equally frustrated by some of the focus "problems" I appeared to be experiencing. I haven't had a chance to do any more "systematic" testing, but I did go into the menu last night and reset to factory. I also printed out a focus "target" so I can do some testing.

However, I believe some of my problems are exactly as MonkeyB lists here stepwise - at least as I remember from my pic set.

MonkeyB, thank you for methodically walking through some potential camera setting problems - seems like some of the these are spot on for me!!

Trey in Houston

no worries, man - you're welcome. i'm just a hobbyist but find that once i started shooting in Manual mode, everything started to make a whole lot more sense in terms of how to get repeatable results. if i can readily achieve "acceptable" focus and noise levels without fiddling or hoping to get lucky, then those moments that require good timing can be snapped up without a hassle or the need for good luck.

 

[ashmadux]

The comparing with the cars that Neuro made is just the same. If you are not used to drive a Porsche with manual gearbox and manual clutch and compare that with the car you are used to with automatic gearbox. Then you will decide an hour later that it is to complicated, that he is missing the contact between driver and road, but if you learn to use that car, then you will regret to step in your regular car again.

Don't get me wrong, for portraits and landscape the 6D is much better then the 7D2, but for action, no men, that will be won by the 7D2 when you can drive that car .

Here is the car comparison problem as it relates to these two bodies.
You are comparing cars.
You should be comparing a car to a pickup truck.
An action camera to a stills camera.

I found the 5DII to be more accurate for still photography than the 7D. It wouldn't be beyond possible that the 5DIII or 6D would be more accurate than the 7D II for still photography.

What this guy said.

I normally test with still objects or parts of the scenery - signs, patterns, buildings, desk items. It erases the variation in movement. As basic as it gets. The unit was a dud. No big deal, but it would have been a big problem for the canceled shoot.

I havent posted the pictures of the af errors because im not out to attack a camera, thats pointless.
However at some point ill post some 7d2 long exposure images (spot AF point) along with the 6d comparisons. They wont be anything surprising to those that do FF night photography.

 

[takesome1]

What this guy said.

I normally test with still objects or parts of the scenery - signs, patterns, buildings, desk items. It erases the variation in movement. As basic as it gets. The unit was a dud. No big deal, but it would have been a big problem for the canceled shoot.

I havent posted the pictures of the af errors because im not out to attack a camera, thats pointless.
However at some point ill post some 7d2 long exposure images (spot AF point) along with the 6d comparisons. They wont be anything surprising to those that do FF night photography.

The unit could only be "dud" because you didn't have enough experience to use the complex AF system as is found back in 5D3, 1Dx or 7D2. It's not because you use a 6D that you can handle the AF of the 7D2.

And yes your are attacking the camera by mentioning that "The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester I had" just after using this 7D2 for a very short period and that without specific knowledge in AF of such a system.

For sure the FF 6D camera will get better results for long exposure images. But this is caused by the FF sensor inside, not the AF. Even for a long exposure I always use a remote control, and focus manually. But according to you this is then a AF problem of the 7D2.

I don't really understand what you want to tell us, but as mentioned here several times, most of the AF problems where people talk about are caused by the user, and not the camera. I know what my camera can do, and how it reacts, and this is based on the fact I own such a camera, not by testing it quickly and telling such things on internet.

I think your signature tells us everything of yourself "Be the best you, screw everything else"

How much experience does a person need with the 7D II to shoot in single point, single shot AF mode at stationary objects? That is about as basic as it gets.

 

[monkey44]

There are a couple threads running about this at the moment. I went back and checked the AF manual to see what the camera is supposed to be doing with "all points selected" in one shot mode it's supposed to focus on the closest object but in ai servo it starts out on a preselected point (not the closest) and is supposed to track whatever is under that point around the frame. There are some menu settings to change the way that works but maybe part of the problem is that people are expecting the same behaviour when switching from single shot to ai servo?

That's how I see it too -- different setting and choices change what happens ... but it is still a learning curve with a new system. The more times I go out, the more I understand the responses. and it starts getting the shots ...

 

[FEBS]

How much experience does a person need with the 7D II to shoot in single point, single shot AF mode at stationary objects? That is about as basic as it gets.

Oh yes?
You presume that the camera was in single shot AF mode. But where is ashmadux telling that?
What about the presetting of the One Shot AF release priority? is it on Focus or on Release?
Are we outside or inside of the MFD of the lens?
Which lens is used and which single point is used? Not every AF point might be used for every lens, see manual of 7D2.
Is AFMA necessary and done if needed for this lens?
Was there enough light to do a decent AF?

It all seems simple, but if even is mentioned "In my test, the Af began to work when set to spot af. Regular Af select was not working at all." then I have doubts about the knowledge from someone who mentions that Regular AF select was not working at all, which I interpret as AF 65-point automatic selection. How can that work? You don't have any control anymore on the AF at that moment. Might be used for a subject against a flat background like a bird in front of the blue sky. And if Ashmadux is using 65-point automatic selection as the regular AF mode, then a lot of the situation is clear to me !!!

I don't want to tell that the 7D2 is a better camera then the 6D. No, not at all for portrait or landscape because the 6D is a FF, but for action, the AF is better then the 6D. You need to understand al the features of the AF. This is not a camera to start photography.

I've seen lately several photos of "so called" bad AF of 7D2 here on internet, however, they are mostly caused by wrong use of the camera/situation/expectation.

 

[Loswr]

Is AFMA necessary and done if needed for this lens?

That's a key question. He's obviously happy with his T2i, to the point of claiming it has a better AF than his 7D, his 6D, and the rented 7DII. Clearly, all three of those cameras should have better AF performance, the two 7-series bodies manifestly so. I suspect that his T2i's AF is fairly 'off' in terms of adjustment, but that his lenses are similarly 'off' – the errors cancel out. Those same lenses would require significant AFMA on other bodies, which wasn't done. Thus, for him the T2i is 'better'. To me, it's pretty telling that the only other camera he says has good AF is the EOS M, which has no need of AFMA with any lens.

 

[takesome1]

I've seen lately several photos of "so called" bad AF of 7D2 here on internet, however, they are mostly caused by wrong use of the camera/situation/expectation.

Imagine that someones expectation's are not met when they see specifications and reviews telling them they are buying a camera that has the same or better specs than the 1D x. Comparisons are made that it is the 1D x's little brother. You read the specifications and you would even think this as well.

So yes we do see people saying the AF system is bad because they do not know how to use the system to its fullest. That is a common thing all of the time regardless of body.
Then you see the crowd jump in that do not even own the 7D II but debate how great it is based on the specs.

The truth lies somewhere in between.

I pre-ordered my 7D II and received it the monday after release. It is a great little camera for the money. I have been running tests on mine from day 1 to compare.
Better at still shots than my old 5D II, not seeing it. Not loosing as many shots due to missed focus but really not gaining keepers either.
Better than the 1D IV, nope. The precision isn't there. I should be comparing shots for composition not focus.
Better than the old 7D, yes most definitely.

What it is better at than those two bodies, video and live view shooting. I have been contemplating new techniques of shooting to incorporate this to see if I can get better results. I really wish they had put a flip screen on it.

 

[AshtonNekolah]

Disclaimer, I'm not a pro, once in a while I get some good pics but not like a lot of people here. Bokay?

This was a challenging situation for the 7DII, I eventually moved up to ISO 12800. It was a party, dimly lit, all pics were with the Canon 35mm f2 IS. I started with spot focus, eventually moved to using all points, I never found a sweet spot.

It is capable of taking some decent pictures under those conditions, here are the ones I saved:

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/2014-yunah+scott/index.html

but if you scroll through some of the rejects you can see that it is struggling to focus:

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/yunah-bad/

here is a good example from my kitchen, why oh why did it focus on the background?

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/7DII/32.html

At this point I'm wondering if I return this, I want to like this camera but wow, the keeper rate seems low. Extremely low compared to the 5DII (that I also own) and even to the 7DI (I've got that too).

When there is enough light it can grab:

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/wren.jpg

is the 7DII, 400mm DO I, 1.4x TC III. I was pretty happy with that pic.

What do you all think? Did I get a bad copy? Am I doing it wrong?

I can tell its definitely a AF selection problem. I see a few sharp images, you will need to control the focus some some have said. The AF system takes some getting use to, I also use a 5d mk II I have no problems with focus, everyone needs are different, your 35 f/2 is more than capable of shooting at 1000 ISO with some good images with very low noise. use single point for sure and move the point around on what you want you should get more keepers.

 

[ashmadux]

I thought we were past the drama.

Not sure what the pot shots will attain, but if it makes you feel good, keep at it. Enjoy, its the holidays after all.

How much experience does a person need with the 7D II to shoot in single point, single shot AF mode at stationary objects? That is about as basic as it gets.

Oh yes?
You presume that the camera was in single shot AF mode. But where is ashmadux telling that?
What about the presetting of the One Shot AF release priority? is it on Focus or on Release?
Are we outside or inside of the MFD of the lens?
Which lens is used and which single point is used? Not every AF point might be used for every lens, see manual of 7D2.
Is AFMA necessary and done if needed for this lens?
Was there enough light to do a decent AF?

It all seems simple, but if even is mentioned "In my test, the Af began to work when set to spot af. Regular Af select was not working at all." then I have doubts about the knowledge from someone who mentions that Regular AF select was not working at all, which I interpret as AF 65-point automatic selection. How can that work? You don't have any control anymore on the AF at that moment. Might be used for a subject against a flat background like a bird in front of the blue sky. And if Ashmadux is using 65-point automatic selection as the regular AF mode, then a lot of the situation is clear to me !!!

I don't want to tell that the 7D2 is a better camera then the 6D. No, not at all for portrait or landscape because the 6D is a FF, but for action, the AF is better then the 6D. You need to understand al the features of the AF. This is not a camera to start photography.

I've seen lately several photos of "so called" bad AF of 7D2 here on internet, however, they are mostly caused by wrong use of the camera/situation/expectation.

Sigh.

"And if Ashmadux is using 65-point automatic selection as the regular AF mode, then a lot of the situation is clear to me !!!"

If you read earlier posts you would have answered some of your own questions. Youre assuming much with your guesswork regarding automatic AF mode selection.

These posts arent about the 6d. I just happened to have it as a second body that day. Thats it, no mystery behind it. How does this keep getting mixed up. No one is gonna say the 6d has better Af than..well...anything.

Id rather not debate your questions. Some are so elementary its kind of insulting.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Every time a high end body is released, a larger than usual number of photographers have issues with autofocus. It happened to me when I bought my 7D after it was announced. It took me a second day of shooting with it to figure out what I was doing wrong (selecting all af points).

Eventually, it gets sorted out. There will be some defective cameras, and some who need to work more at understand how to work the camera features. There are always people who like to tell new users that they should buy the most complex new camera, it can be like throwing them to the wolves. They just want to point and shoot, and expect everything to be in sharp focus. Then we try to help them out to understand what's happening, and people get off track. It still happens every time someone asks for suggestion on a new camera body.

 

[weixing]

What this guy said.

I normally test with still objects or parts of the scenery - signs, patterns, buildings, desk items. It erases the variation in movement. As basic as it gets. The unit was a dud. No big deal, but it would have been a big problem for the canceled shoot.

I havent posted the pictures of the af errors because im not out to attack a camera, thats pointless.
However at some point ill post some 7d2 long exposure images (spot AF point) along with the 6d comparisons. They wont be anything surprising to those that do FF night photography.

The unit could only be "dud" because you didn't have enough experience to use the complex AF system as is found back in 5D3, 1Dx or 7D2. It's not because you use a 6D that you can handle the AF of the 7D2.

And yes your are attacking the camera by mentioning that "The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester I had" just after using this 7D2 for a very short period and that without specific knowledge in AF of such a system.

For sure the FF 6D camera will get better results for long exposure images. But this is caused by the FF sensor inside, not the AF. Even for a long exposure I always use a remote control, and focus manually. But according to you this is then a AF problem of the 7D2.

I don't really understand what you want to tell us, but as mentioned here several times, most of the AF problems where people talk about are caused by the user, and not the camera. I know what my camera can do, and how it reacts, and this is based on the fact I own such a camera, not by testing it quickly and telling such things on internet.

I think your signature tells us everything of yourself "Be the best you, screw everything else"

How much experience does a person need with the 7D II to shoot in single point, single shot AF mode at stationary objects? That is about as basic as it gets.

Hi,
Not sure, but at least he need to use the correct mode and point or move the selected AF point on the subject he want to focus on.

For example, a compact camera user just need to point the camera at the subject, see the subject in the camera LCD screen and take a shot, but when he got the 7D2 and try to do the same in Av or Tv mode, he might get 90% of the shot out of focus and he conclude that the 7D2 had focusing issue.

For example, an analog phone user just need to pick up the phone, hear the dial tone and dial in the phone number, but when he got the iPhone and didn't see the dial pad and he conclude that the iPhone had an issue and not usable.

Anyway, what simple and obvious to you doesn't mean it's simple and obvious to everyone... usually more advance system need more knowledge to operate properly even basic task as it's usually provide more controls over the simpler system.

Have a nice day.

 

[takesome1]

For example, an analog phone user just need to pick up the phone, hear the dial tone and dial in the phone number, but when he got the iPhone and didn't see the dial pad and he conclude that the iPhone had an issue and not usable.

I never once but dialed a rotary dial phone.
In that respect a dial phone will cause less embarrassment.

 

[FEBS]

Ok, im chastising a bit, but youre batting zeros right now.

Hmm, if that's your your idea. Fine.

But your behavior on several threads on this site is just TROLLING.

So, please don't post anymore as it doesn't bring anything. No answer to OP, only telling what you hear on the internet, telling us what you did find out after testing a camera for a few hours,.. or telling "an experienced photog (I am )". And if you would believe that it was your unit that was having problems with AF in that situation, then I would not shout that around here and keep on telling people how bad the AF of the 7D2 is, but everything is based on your test unit and your AF knowledge. Yes you might of course tell us that your unit did have a problem but don't generalize it.

My answers are based on the fact that I own and use a 1Dx, a 5D3 and 7D2 continuously. No, I don't know everything but try to learn and understand what people are saying/writing down every day. I see my photos improving the last few years. Why, because I always ask myself what did I do wrong when some other people can take real beauties with the same camera/lens. That improvement in my photography would never have happened if I only blame the camera or lens for every photo that is not good enough to keep.

 

[sanj]

Am I hearing it correct that 6D has better focusing ability than the 7D2?