More 7DII focus problems

[luckydude]

Disclaimer, I'm not a pro, once in a while I get some good pics but not like a lot of people here. Bokay?

This was a challenging situation for the 7DII, I eventually moved up to ISO 12800. It was a party, dimly lit, all pics were with the Canon 35mm f2 IS. I started with spot focus, eventually moved to using all points, I never found a sweet spot.

It is capable of taking some decent pictures under those conditions, here are the ones I saved:

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/2014-yunah+scott/index.html

but if you scroll through some of the rejects you can see that it is struggling to focus:

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/yunah-bad/

here is a good example from my kitchen, why oh why did it focus on the background?

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/7DII/32.html

At this point I'm wondering if I return this, I want to like this camera but wow, the keeper rate seems low. Extremely low compared to the 5DII (that I also own) and even to the 7DI (I've got that too).

When there is enough light it can grab:

http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/wren.jpg

is the 7DII, 400mm DO I, 1.4x TC III. I was pretty happy with that pic.

What do you all think? Did I get a bad copy? Am I doing it wrong?

 

[ktatty]

Have you tried micro adjustment on your lens? The picture with the 400 looks sharp- so i wouldn't think you have a bad copy. I have shot the 7d ii and its a great wildlife and sports camera, but it's not at its best with indoor low light shots. I would want a full frame sensor for those situations.

 

[takesome1]

Using all points how do you know you missed focus? For instance the kitchen pic. The background is the center of your frame.

Some are just DOF problems not focus.

Some you are picking up the person next to the one you are targeting.

Some are not sharp but it is because of noise.

If you own the 5D II you took the wrong tool for this job anyway. IMO

Do you have a bad copy? Maybe I couldn't tell by this set, I would have to be using it to see how it compares.

Yesterday I was at the lake, a small flock of seagulls standing in the water. I took 10 shots with the 1D IV and had 10 equally sharp pictures to choose from. I put the 7D II on shot the birds, I had 12 sharp pictures out of 20. Of the 12 they all varied. My impression of the 7D II so far is that it is better than the 7D I, better than the 5D II. It is not up to the 1D series. The specs for the 7D II AF system may be great and compare to the 1D x, but if you only believe the numbers Canon marketing has done their job.

 

[MonkeyB]

the camera settings you chose are not really ideal for the situation.

Tv mode is odd - people at a party are relatively static. further, a shutter speed of around 1/200 or 1/250 would have frozen the subjects more adequately than what i'm seeing listed. IS can only help your movement, not your subject's.

spot metering often requires locking first, on a mid-tone. it seems to me that you have mostly pointed at your darker subjects and so the lighted portion of the frame is blown out. try evaluative/matrix for candids.

in lower light, and without a bounce flash, max aperture pretty much has to be used to keep noise down. all of these should have been at f2. DoF gets tricky if you can't keep a good shooting distance, like when you are using a 35mm prime. a zoom lens would have been easier.

a bounce flash would have made this task a whole lot easier.

most importantly: servo focus is also odd - these people are relatively static, and so one-shot focus would have been better. servo starts with the center point, gives you no beep or visual confirmation, and does not actually focus until you release the shutter. i would venture that your focus problems with this set are due to servo.

hope this helps. someone please correct my errors/omissions.

 

[aardvark]

Lets face it - less than ideal conditions - particularly kitchen shot. Is that a focus issue or camera "shake"...seems like some movement to me (couldn't really see much in focus but some blur indicating movement)

 

[weixing]

Hi,
Here my suggestion:
1) "All points" in your case is not a good choice as you are allowing the camera to select the focus subject for you. You should use single-point AF or AF point expansion and move it to where you want it to focus on.
2) "AI Servo AF" don't work well in low light and the camera might priority speed or focus depend on your "AI Servo AF priority". "One Shot AF" is a better choice and make sure the "One-Shot AF release priority" is on focusing.

Anyway, there is always in some situation that the AF system will not work well, that's why the AF system got so many options available, so that with experience, you'll be able to select the correct settings that give the best result.

By the way, have you read the manual especially the AF Setting guidebook?? If not, you should read it to understand how the AF system work... highly recommended.

Happy shooting and have a nice day.

 

[Marsu42]

here is a good example from my kitchen, why oh why did it focus on the background?

Just because you use a camera with an af system designed to track a bird in flight across the frame doesn't mean you need to let it loose onto your unsuspecting kitchen (the camera, not the bird)

Do try to shoot in single-point af mode, or even center af with recompose like the rest of us. Unless you're working with ultra-thin depth of field, at least you know where the af will end up ... leaving the decision to the camera makes sense when you don't have time to do it yourself.

But rejoice, you're not the only newbie getting desperate when using a dslr system that's beyond their use scanario. Do start simple, take your time, no good gear replaces knowledge how the optics, the sensor and the af system work. Sorry to point out the obvious here, but maybe someone should :->

 

[neuroanatomist]

Many '7DII Focus Problems' would be better termed '7DII user problems', and that's pretty much true with any new camera released. Mostly, they come down to inadequate experience with the camera, not having RTFM, or expecting it to behave just like the last camera used.

Others have pointed out specific issues above. IMO, the biggest issue is Automatic AF point selection. The subject of the image should not be chosen by the camera, but by the person holding it. IMO, there's only one situation in which auto point selection is warranted – tracking a moving subject in AI Servo. In that case, the user selects the starting AF point, and the camera then tracks the subject using all points.

 

[Steve Balcombe]

Many '7DII Focus Problems' would be better termed '7DII user problems', and that's pretty much true with any new camera released. Mostly, they come down to inadequate experience with the camera, not having RTFM, or expecting it to behave just like the last camera used.

Others have pointed out specific issues above. IMO, the biggest issue is Automatic AF point selection. The subject of the image should not be chosen by the camera, but by the person holding it. IMO, there's only one situation in which auto point selection is warranted – tracking a moving subject in AI Servo. In that case, the user selects the starting AF point, and the camera then tracks the subject using all points.

+1 and then some. But we still have a thread with the subject line "More 7DII focus problems" which is about as far as some people bother reading before declaring that the 7D Mark II is an unmitigated disaster.

 

[awinphoto]

Many '7DII Focus Problems' would be better termed '7DII user problems', and that's pretty much true with any new camera released. Mostly, they come down to inadequate experience with the camera, not having RTFM, or expecting it to behave just like the last camera used.

Others have pointed out specific issues above. IMO, the biggest issue is Automatic AF point selection. The subject of the image should not be chosen by the camera, but by the person holding it. IMO, there's only one situation in which auto point selection is warranted – tracking a moving subject in AI Servo. In that case, the user selects the starting AF point, and the camera then tracks the subject using all points.

+1 and then some. But we still have a thread with the subject line "More 7DII focus problems" which is about as far as some people bother reading before declaring that the 7D Mark II is an unmitigated disaster.

Completely agree... i came from cameras with lesser focusing system and the first time i picked up my original 7d, i couldn't get in focus shots until i sat down, learned the AF system, and learned how to use it to my advantage... the 5d3 and 7d2 are no different... Using all AF points is only asking for trouble as your asking the camera to read your mind and i'll let you in on a hint... they are terrible mind readers. Even zone focus settings are going to hit or miss for that very reason... I almost always use single point with expansion... It is just better... Tells the camera specifically where you want it to look for focus, and if there's any issues with that point, it can lean on the other points to get that focus. Also it's a good idea to periodically check AFMA on all your lenses... just keeps the camera/lens systems in check...

 

[FEBS]

As also others already mentioned, this seems to be more a user problem then a 7DII focus problem.

I do not understand why the OP is taking most of the pictures at 12800ISO. I even would not do that on a 5DIII. You simply need more light. A fill-in flash is really needed in this situation.

When I look through all the photos I see that he first used spot metering, afterwards partial metering and at last evaluative metering. So the OP tried to solve his problem by changing metering. For that reason I even think he mixes the metering system with the focus system. In a lot of out of focus photos, it seems that he is using ai-servo in combination with all-focus points and that's the wrong choice as already mentioned by others. You need one shot and a single point AF.

This has nothing to do at all with a focus problem !!!

 

[monkey44]

I'm a certain and anyone that manufacturers occasionally send out a unit that has technical or mechanical issues -- it just happens with mass manufacturing. Can't change that. but I can't believe Canon would send a mass release with a major technical problem inherent in the design.

I'm wondering how many of the folks that bought this 7D2 allow the camera to find focus point as soon as the shutter button is depressed half-way (or use another programed button?) and let the camera find the target???

If you first target your subject -- THEN activate the AF tracking system, the camera will follow your target (provided you also set priority target in the camera first, and not allow crossing targets to acquire) ... As stated above, as much as we might like it, the camera cannot read your mind, and I'm betting in most action shots - whether sports or wildlife - at least "something" (a branch, leaf, sideline coach) sits between the shooter and the target a large percent of the time. As soon as the camera spots a cross-target, it will acquire it and follow it instead.

Think like a rocket scientist -- the rocket will not be very beneficial to a mission aimed at an enemy plane if it suddenly swerves because a bird crosses it's path, and shoots down a pelican. So, the initial target with your focus system should find the target point first -- then, follow it. If we allowed a missile to first guess at its target, we'd be eliminating a lot of friendly humans. so, those of you having a tough time with this AF system, I suggest you at first acquire the target you personally want to hit, THEN let the camera initiate its AF design function.

I've only had the 7D2 a bit over a month, and not had a lot of time in the field yet (like everyone, our busy time is now, holiday and year end) ... but at first I had a very tough time with its AF system as well, and believed all these claims of faulty equipment had merit as my 7D2 AF was acting odd too. Now, after playing a bit (and needing a bit more playing too), it's my opinion the AF system is truly a beautiful system, and just needs to teach us how to use itself properly.

Before the flame hits -- I know some of you out there complaining about the system are truly correct, especially the more experienced guys, and I expect as a rule, more experienced guys buy a 7D2 and not novices ... So, it stand to reason a few cameras will have manufacturing defects or bugs, and you might have bought one. But I encourage all of you with targeting issues open your minds a bit, and take some time to really, really understand this camera system - it's truly a remarkable piece of technology.

In addition, I'm not suggesting it's "best of the best" for all purposes, and have no wish to compare individual parts of it with other brands (Sony Sensors, for example) -- but as a tool, it certainly does what we need in the field, and that's all that matters in the work world -- hmmm, or the artistic world as well.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Think like a rocket scientist -- the rocket will not be very beneficial to a mission aimed at an enemy plane if it suddenly swerves because a bird crosses it's path, and shoots down a pelican.

Or, say I'm trying to shoot that pelican flying by, and a surface to air missile passes through the scene – if I've configured the tracking sensitivity and speed options appropriately, the camera will ignore the missile and remain locked on the pelican so I can continue taking pictures. Of course, with SAMs flying around, ducking for cover or running away might be better choices than taking pictures.

 

[Don Haines]

Think like a rocket scientist -- the rocket will not be very beneficial to a mission aimed at an enemy plane if it suddenly swerves because a bird crosses it's path, and shoots down a pelican.

Or, say I'm trying to shoot that pelican flying by, and a surface to air missile passes through the scene – if I've configured the tracking sensitivity and speed options appropriately, the camera will ignore the missile and remain locked on the pelican so I can continue taking pictures. Of course, with SAMs flying around, ducking for cover or running away might be better choices than taking pictures.

did someone mention DUCKing for cover?

 

[pedro]

good humor found here. made my day. I'll go for that pelican... 8)

 

[monkey44]

good humor found here. made my day. I'll go for that pelican... 8)

Yes, laughing is more fun than crying, or complaining, or crabbing. We all need a little of it or we'll go NUTS !!"
On the serious side tho', I'm truly a believer that some of the 'focus issues" with the 7D2 come from the system itself and how it operates. And I really had a tough time with it at first, and couldn't figure out why it focused PERFECTLY on a small leaf half way to my target as the camera moved -- panning -- and it should have stayed on the bird ... and am still not completely engaged with this camera yet. Need more time in the field, of course, like any new equipment, the learning curve ...

Anyway, was hoping some of those cameras that seem to have the focus issues are really a part of that learning curve -- after the first week, I was reading all the problems and almost sent mine back -- then, suddenly, I clicked in, and now works spot on -- altho', I still need plenty more time out on the trails before it will become auto-routine instead of "think every time".

Seems like some of the responses here too indicate the 'broken camera' accusations come from experienced guys too that maybe don't want to admit it could be the brain behind the viewer ... and it should never come to that -- because when it does, then it sticks and the camera will always be blamed. There is no reason to think less of yourself or anyone else that needs a little kick in the pants to "get it" ... I was really glad to figure this out and even happier I didn't have to return the camera for repair -- mainly because the problem was with the shooter ( ME ! )and not the technology - at least I believe that at the moment.

As an aside too - I was shooting / testing / learning it w 70-200 L IS F-4 as well, really sharp and quick-reacting lens ... then I stuck the 100-400 V.2 on it, and it knocked me out - how fast and on-target it is. I mentioned before on another thread the 7D2 and the 100-400 V.2 are an amazing pairing and seem made for one another. Anyone has any doubts about the 7D2 and the 100-400 V.2, sit those doubts on the back burner, because if you pair them up, you are in for a real treat !!

 

[ashmadux]

good humor found here. made my day. I'll go for that pelican... 8)

Yes, laughing is more fun than crying, or complaining, or crabbing. We all need a little of it or we'll go NUTS !!"
On the serious side tho', I'm truly a believer that some of the 'focus issues" with the 7D2 come from the system itself and how it operates. And I really had a tough time with it at first, and couldn't figure out why it focused PERFECTLY on a small leaf half way to my target as the camera moved -- panning -- and it should have stayed on the bird ... and am still not completely engaged with this camera yet. Need more time in the field, of course, like any new equipment, the learning curve ...

Anyway, was hoping some of those cameras that seem to have the focus issues are really a part of that learning curve -- after the first week, I was reading all the problems and almost sent mine back -- then, suddenly, I clicked in, and now works spot on -- altho', I still need plenty more time out on the trails before it will become auto-routine instead of "think every time".

Seems like some of the responses here too indicate the 'broken camera' accusations come from experienced guys too that maybe don't want to admit it could be the brain behind the viewer ... and it should never come to that -- because when it does, then it sticks and the camera will always be blamed. There is no reason to think less of yourself or anyone else that needs a little kick in the pants to "get it" ... I was really glad to figure this out and even happier I didn't have to return the camera for repair -- mainly because the problem was with the shooter ( ME ! )and not the technology - at least I believe that at the moment.

As an aside too - I was shooting / testing / learning it w 70-200 L IS F-4 as well, really sharp and quick-reacting lens ... then I stuck the 100-400 V.2 on it, and it knocked me out - how fast and on-target it is. I mentioned before on another thread the 7D2 and the 100-400 V.2 are an amazing pairing and seem made for one another. Anyone has any doubts about the 7D2 and the 100-400 V.2, sit those doubts on the back burner, because if you pair them up, you are in for a real treat !!

What does "i clicked in.." mean?

In my test, the Af began to work when set to spot af. Regular Af select was not working at all. The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester i had.

It's not worth it, imho.

 

[neuroanatomist]

The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester i had.

Yeah, my Subaru station wagon isn't the fastest car out there, but it beat the pants off the Porsche I test drove.

Whatever, bub.

 

[ashmadux]

The Af on my 6d is spotty at best, but even that beat the pants of the 7d2 tester i had.

Yeah, my Subaru station wagon isn't the fastest car out there, but it beat the pants off the Porsche I test drove.

Whatever, bub.

You have added zero the conversation. And youre not funny.

Unlike your nonsense comment, I have the pictures.

 

[treytexag]

the camera settings you chose are not really ideal for the situation.

Tv mode is odd - people at a party are relatively static. further, a shutter speed of around 1/200 or 1/250 would have frozen the subjects more adequately than what i'm seeing listed. IS can only help your movement, not your subject's.

spot metering often requires locking first, on a mid-tone. it seems to me that you have mostly pointed at your darker subjects and so the lighted portion of the frame is blown out. try evaluative/matrix for candids.

in lower light, and without a bounce flash, max aperture pretty much has to be used to keep noise down. all of these should have been at f2. DoF gets tricky if you can't keep a good shooting distance, like when you are using a 35mm prime. a zoom lens would have been easier.

a bounce flash would have made this task a whole lot easier.

most importantly: servo focus is also odd - these people are relatively static, and so one-shot focus would have been better. servo starts with the center point, gives you no beep or visual confirmation, and does not actually focus until you release the shutter. i would venture that your focus problems with this set are due to servo.

hope this helps. someone please correct my errors/omissions.

This is good advice I think for me. I took a similar set of party pics, and I was equally frustrated by some of the focus "problems" I appeared to be experiencing. I haven't had a chance to do any more "systematic" testing, but I did go into the menu last night and reset to factory. I also printed out a focus "target" so I can do some testing.

However, I believe some of my problems are exactly as MonkeyB lists here stepwise - at least as I remember from my pic set.

MonkeyB, thank you for methodically walking through some potential camera setting problems - seems like some of the these are spot on for me!!

Trey in Houston