More Canon EF 35mm f/1.4L II Talk [CR2]

A lot could be done to improve upon the EF 35/1.4L, as can be seen in the Sigma 35/1.4 Art.

First, reduction of coma in the image periphery. The existing design has huge coma.
Second, better correction of astigmatism and field curvature. Again, these adversely affect corner performance.
Third, reduction in chromatic aberration, especially wide open. There's not as much color fringing as, say, the 85/1.2L II, but there is still room for improvement here.

Those are optical design issues that can be addressed in an upcoming revision. Other improvements include weather sealing and less vignetting (although it's actually pretty good here already, certainly better than the 24/1.4L II). I have no issues with AF accuracy and speed--these are quite excellent. The existing design is relatively old. If Sigma can do better at half the cost, why can't Canon? The fanboys will argue that Canon needs to make back the money they spend on R&D and retooling production. Or they might say that you can only get so much optical improvement for the price point. But considering that the only reason why prospective buyers would choose Canon over Sigma in this case is that the latter might have AF issues--this is not related to optical design nor is it related to production or R&D costs. Canon has their own PCBs, ICs, and AF algorithms to work with their own lenses and bodies. That's already settled technology for them. If anything, it cost Sigma more to backwards-engineer and continually have to tweak their understanding of Canon's AF systems on various bodies. So that kind of excuse-making does not fly.
 
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chromophore said:
..........But considering that the only reason why prospective buyers would choose Canon over Sigma in this case is that the latter might have AF issues--this is not related to optical design nor is it related to production or R&D costs.................

Not true, I would never buy a Sigma because they have been proven to abandon their customers and not give a damn. For me it isn't about ultimate IQ, it is about enough IQ to get the job done with reliability, consistency, and service.

Many forum members slag off the Canon EF50 f1.4, but, mine works effortlessly and entirely reliably on the new fangled DSLR's that were introduced well after it was designed and sold, I can get it serviced and I can buy parts for it if I choose to service it myself, I can use it on all my current cameras and any future EOS camera I decide to buy (and any EOS-M), that is not true of Sigma and when they had issues in the past they didn't stand by their product. Oh, also, my 50 f1.4 is worth around $150 less than I paid for it 14 years ago, show me a Sigma like that.........
 
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privatebydesign said:
chromophore said:
..........But considering that the only reason why prospective buyers would choose Canon over Sigma in this case is that the latter might have AF issues--this is not related to optical design nor is it related to production or R&D costs.................

Not true, I would never buy a Sigma because they have been proven to abandon their customers and not give a damn. For me it isn't about ultimate IQ, it is about enough IQ to get the job done with reliability, consistency, and service.

Many forum members slag off the Canon EF50 f1.4, but, mine works effortlessly and entirely reliably on the new fangled DSLR's that were introduced well after it was designed and sold, I can get it serviced and I can buy parts for it if I choose to service it myself, I can use it on all my current cameras and any future EOS camera I decide to buy (and any EOS-M), that is not true of Sigma and when they had issues in the past they didn't stand by their product. Oh, also, my 50 f1.4 is worth around $150 less than I paid for it 14 years ago, show me a Sigma like that.........

I should have been more precise in my statement: what I am trying to say is that many people who choose not to buy Sigma--in particular, the Art lenses--are making that choice for reasons that are not related to the optical performance. Their more recent glass is great, and the build quality is quite good; it's the other stuff like spotty AF compatibility, poor legacy support, poor customer service, that pushes customers away, even if that means paying more money for Canon's inferior glass. My point is that Canon is incapable of producing a new, improved optical design without charging 2x what Sigma does, or 4-5x what Samyang does.
 
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chromophore said:
I should have been more precise in my statement: what I am trying to say is that many people who choose not to buy Sigma--in particular, the Art lenses--are making that choice for reasons that are not related to the optical performance.

I agree with that comment.

chromophore said:
Their more recent glass is great, and the build quality is quite good; it's the other stuff like spotty AF compatibility, poor legacy support, poor customer service, that pushes customers away,

And that one.

chromophore said:
even if that means paying more money for Canon's inferior glass.

I don't necessarily agree with that. The EF 50 f1.2 is more money than the Art 50 f1.4, but is faster, and there are many people who like the optical formula as is with its designed in quirks. The EF50 f1.4 is much cheaper than the Art 50 f1.4 and inferior in the optical department, though not the service and compatibility departments, I have had no issues with mine in the 15 odd years I have owned it.

The 35 Art might be 'better' optically and cheaper than the EF 35 f1.4 so does make your case slightly better, were it not for the EF f2 IS option that is pretty close optically from f2 and much cheaper with IS.

chromophore said:
My point is that Canon is incapable of producing a new, improved optical design without charging 2x what Sigma does, or 4-5x what Samyang does.

That I strongly disagree with, I believe Canon are more than capable of making a better optical design than Sigma for less money, but market forces dictate they can sell one for a premium, so they will.

If I have a need for a fast 35 prime I'll get an EF MkI or MkII when it comes.
 
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ScottyP said:
Viggo said:
"How much are you willing to pay for weather sealing and Canon AF?" ANYTHING they ask, quite simply. If Canon made the 50 Art with Canon AF, I would pay 5000 dollars for it.

The weather sealing is meaningless to me but the AF is important. I have read that you had bad luck with Sigma 35's (or was it the 50's?), but fortunately I definitely did not. My 35 Art nails focus quickly and dependably, and of course the optics are incredible for color, contrast and sharpness.
+1, weather sealing is not relevant for more than 95% of photographers, AF is what really matters. I tried the 50mm Art and I was amazed with the AF improvement over the previous Sigma 50mm. Af nailed focus always and sharpness is at the top of the 50's except for the Otus.
It Canon wants to preserve the market share in the 35mm's shouldn't increase the price above the current lens price.
Anyway I am very happy with my 35mm f2 IS, which is quite compact, excellent AF and has IS that helps
 
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weather sealing is not relevant for more than 95% of photographers, AF is what really matters.

I think you're right, but for the remaining 5% people... weatersealing may be everything as the jobs needs it to be done. It's not for heavy rain only, but also for moisture or against fungus over the years. I can assure you that my 24-85 has dust in it like an ashtray but none of my sealed ones.

For me Autofocus is not that important, eighter. Below 50mm or on wideangles in general, I really like the smooth focus of the manual lenses and to get more control of the scene (my 5D has only one useable focuspoint and on landscapes rarely the interesting thing is in the centre ;)). The growing size of newer formulas is also not my taste anyway, nowadays you have to carry 2 pounds for a 35mm lense or 4.35 lb (!) for a 55mm OTUS. I'm willing to loose some sharpness for a really good but small 6/5 formula again. There are fantastic 50mm/35mm lense out there like the leica ones, they proove that you don't need 12 elements in 10 groups to get a tack sharp image.

The best optics I own are on my Fuji GX680, they have all just a few elements. Maybe the canonengineers could calculate a 50mm f1.2 DO, sharp at f1.2 ;))) That would be the Killer for me.
 
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sanj said:
Dick said:
Hjalmarg1 said:
AF is what really matters

Indeed. Doesn't even have to be as sharp as the Sigma, if the AF is decent.

Really? Seriously?
+1, If it doesn't need to be as *sharp* as the Sigma then there is no need for an update. The current lens is just fine as it is reasonable sharp wide open (in the centre of frame) and focuses reliably.
 
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Pixel said:
My 35 1.4L is the finest optic in my arsenal already. Other than weather sealing, I can't see where an improvement will come from.

The plastic body isn't as robust as the newer L's, the AF accuracy can really drop in low light and the coatings are very old...so it flares badly...ooo and the Aperture blade design is very old too...more blades please.
Plus weather sealing...a wee bit more sharpness...but not at the expense of the creamy bokeh!
 
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Etienne said:
dolina said:
Itll happen but... i doubt i'll get one. I am too satisfied with the 40/2.8 pancake. ;D

I have the pancake. Wish I could be satisfied, but it's mostly a body cap. There's nothing special about the images from that lens. Just about every lens in that range is better.

yea but if 35 through 50mm isnt your main thing... then the pancake (and now the 50stm) are a quick and cheap fix for fast fixed lens
 
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Any manufacturer is capable of making the sharpest lens out there, but you end up with a huge and heavy lens.

I'd say Canon's skill is evident in how well they can design a lens at a given size and weight. Compare the 35 IS at half the weight of the 35 ART. For me I'd take IS at half the weight over the extra stop even if the Canon wasn't 2/3 the price.

Since Canon has more skill than Sigma I am betting their lens will match or exceed the ART optically and be lighter.
 
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Etienne said:
I have the pancake. Wish I could be satisfied, but it's mostly a body cap. There's nothing special about the images from that lens. Just about every lens in that range is better.

I'm curious what you were expecting from the lens that you didn't get? It almost sounds like you made a poor purchasing decision, and are blaming the lens. I mean if every other lens in the range is better, why did you buy it?
 
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StudentOfLight said:
sanj said:
Dick said:
Hjalmarg1 said:
AF is what really matters

Indeed. Doesn't even have to be as sharp as the Sigma, if the AF is decent.

Really? Seriously?
+1, If it doesn't need to be as *sharp* as the Sigma then there is no need for an update. The current lens is just fine as it is reasonable sharp wide open (in the centre of frame) and focuses reliably.

That's how it is for me at least. At the moment I don't really use the 35 mm FL too much and the not so sharp 24L II does the job for me, because it nails the focus almost every time. I've never had a 35 mm that was good at focusing. The 35L was better than the Sigma at that.

Nobody has complained about the lack of sharpness even though the 24L II is far from the Sigma 35 mm level. The difference in sharpness is obvious in 100% size, but the basic sizes, used on screens for example, do not require the extra sharpness of the Sigma. Hell, the 85L II is not a sharp lens, but it is sharp enough & sharpening in PP helps a lot already. There are lots of other things to consider and not just the ultimate sharpness.
 
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Solar Eagle said:
Etienne said:
I have the pancake. Wish I could be satisfied, but it's mostly a body cap. There's nothing special about the images from that lens. Just about every lens in that range is better.

I'm curious what you were expecting from the lens that you didn't get? It almost sounds like you made a poor purchasing decision, and are blaming the lens. I mean if every other lens in the range is better, why did you buy it?

I bought it because it was cheap and small and I thought it would make my 5D3 more portable at times. In practice if I want to travel light I never pick the 40, but one of these: 24-105 (for focal length choices), 16-35 2.8 (ultrawide, my favorite lens), or the 35 f/2 IS (similar focal length but f/2 and IS is great, and it's still a small lightweight package). I even prefer the 50 f/1.4 over the 40 f/2.8.
I don't regret buying it because it is dirt cheap, but it certainly would not cause me to avoid any other lens. It's only advantage is size and price. If those two things are more important to you than the image, then you've found your perfect lens.
 
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