More Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]

I guess people want a 5D for the price of a 6D - dual slots, weather sealing, AF - and if anybody tells them a 6D is not a 5D, its a 6D, they think surely that person is on the dark side - a sold soul shill.

Its funny to me that people would rather complain about what they can't have than enjoy what they can. Its like a baby that cries because he's sleepy, but wants to stay awake. Better to just accept the days offerings than try to squeeze more from the dregs.
 
Upvote 0
I'm not as enthusiastic about Canon's wares since my fiasco with the 7Dii.

The 6Dii will take photos but whether it will have the bells and whistles considered the norm by today's standards or gosh, just pushing the envelope just a bit, is really not for us to decide.

On a side note: I often marvel at Canon's marketing videos one sees after a body debuts and someone hits us with this line: "We have put into this camera everything our users wanted..." paraphrasing there but how many of you guys have actually been asked, what would you want in a camera?

So if I have to play the game:
- Sufficient AF to shoot an event indoors
- Weather dealing
- Improved dynamic range
 
Upvote 0
Solar Eagle said:
I guess people want a 5D for the price of a 6D - dual slots, weather sealing, AF - and if anybody tells them a 6D is not a 5D, its a 6D, they think surely that person is on the dark side - a sold soul shill.

What people want is everything they see from comparable models of other brands plus what's already there. People look at the DR and weather sealing of less-expensive competitor models and ask why the 6D and xxD models can't have that for a few dollars more. They look at dual card slots and believe it's just a few dollars more to add it. They wonder why Canon doesn't put in a better sensor to compete on DR.

I would also like to see these features, but I'm realistic: every new feature will have at least one of the following costs to Canon:

* Allow customers to misuse it, increasing support costs and return rates
* Incur capital expenditures that reduce profits
* Reduce product differentiation, resulting in lower sales numbers of higher-profit models
* Require additional testing, QA, refinement costs

People forget that Canon is a for-profit business, but Canon has not forgotten.
 
Upvote 0
K said:

There, I summarized your post for you.

Please try to understand… It's not that people are "anti-dual card slot" or "anti-DR". There's an opportunity cost to the addition of any feature. There's no free lunch. What you deem as something critical may not be the case for everyone. You can repeat your mantra until you're blue in the face, it won't change what Canon decides to do.


Tugela said:
Looks like Canon are setting up for another fail. Perhaps on the assumption if they fail often enough it will be perceived as normal and everyone will be happy with their shortchanged camera.

Indeed. Because the 5DIII and 6D we're such spectacular failures that they are only the most popular full frame camera's on the market. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to fail just like that every time.
 
Upvote 0
Lee Jay said:
dilbert said:
dak723 said:
dilbert said:
Ok, but will they put a Sony Exmor in it?

Or persist with Canon's current lacking designs?

Be careful what you ask for. Having recently bought (and returned) the Sony A7 II with the vaunted Exmor sensor, I would have to express my disappointment with it. I spent a week taking the same shots with the Sony and my Canon 6D, and as I mentioned, returned the Sony. I normally shoot landscapes and in comparing the shots, the Sony and Canon pics were either essentially the same, or I preferred the Canon pics. I realize that the opinions when looking at actual pics is subjective as opposed to looking at test shots on the internet. I preferred the color of the Canon, but mostly the contrast and tone curve. The Sony pics were noticeably more "washed out."

Sounds like a post processing problem to me.

No, it is not a post processing problem. It is what the actual photos look like, not test results. The Canon photos have more contrast and a better differentiation between light and shadow. The Sony pics, while revealing slightly more detail in the shadows, were flatter in appearance with less contrast. The sunset pics, which I had anticipated being better with the Sony, were not, in my opinion. The slightly greater DR was not nearly enough to make any difference at all in that type of lighting. If Canon went to an Exmor sensor - and the results were the same as the pics from the Sony - this would be a big disappointment to me because it would mean I would need to do a lot more post processing, something I do very minimally with my Canon 6D.

I just sat my totally unbiased daughter down in front of the computer to look at some test shots from different cameras. All of them are shot in raw, all have the same processing in the same tool using the same profile and are all displayed at the same size. I just asked her which she liked best and worst. In a few seconds she picked the worst. It took her longer to pick the best.

These were ISO 200 and ISO 6400 shots, all pushed about 2 stops in the shadows.

The best was a Canon, the worst was a Sony.

I've shown the same set to several others. 80% have picked the same best one, and 100% have picked the same worst one. Everyone picked the Sony as the worst of the bunch.

Yes, you could say it is personal opinion rather than easy to document test results, but in terms of color, contrast and overall appearance, I, too, prefer Canon over the pics I have seen from Nikon or Sony. I do like the look of Olympus pics , and not surprisingly, that is why I also own an Olympus Om-D EM-1. So, for those who repeat endlessly that Canon is doomed, or way behind, or incompetent, I disagree. DR is not the only measure of how good a sensor or a Camera is. I prefer to look at the entire picture.
 
Upvote 0
dilbert said:
My failures with cards have been:
1) The USB reader itself introduced errors
2) Pins in USB reader getting bent/broken in the CF slot
3) Not having a CF reader built into my laptop
4) Finding a CF USB reader in a shop when on holidays

1) Defective / poorly chosen 3rd party product.
2) Defective / poorly chosen / misused 3rd party product.
3) Poorly chosen 3rd party product.
4) Poor planning on your part.

I thought we were discussing the internal card slot(s) on a Canon dSLR.
 
Upvote 0
K,

Sorry my question upset you so much. In case you were wondering, I was genuinely interested in your response, although I am now sorry I asked.

I've got half a million digital shots in my archive, going back to 2001, without a card failure. That's why your concern seemed odd to me. I understand now that your luck hasn't been as good as mine. If it helps, here are my golden rules: always buy the best cards from reputable shops (no counterfeit cards) and brands, retire cards after two years or so (they can still be used in other devices), never format cards or delete files in the field, only format cards after you've made two separate backups. Hope this helps.

BTW, my must-have feature is interchangeable focusing screens. I refuse to buy a camera that can't be focused by eye. Let's hope Canon keeps this feature in the 6Dm2
 
Upvote 0
Zv said:
This K fella doesn't seem to get the point that just because the features he needs are not present in the 6D or 6DII it means Canon are somehow ripping us off. Yet we have other features like wifi and gps that the Nikon equivalent lacks. Does that then mean that Nikon is ripping of their customers too?


Hi.

Some facts for you:


Nikon D750 -

2 card slots
WIFI

51 point AF
Tilt screen (a feature others in this thread bring up wishing Canon would implement)


All for less than $2,000!


Again, why the 6D2 at over $2,000 at release with one slot? To be fair, if these specs in the rumor hold up - Canon should sell the 6D2 for around $1,500, at best. A neutered camera ought to come with a lower price. It isn't just that Canon omits the slot, it's also the high price too.

Canon IS ripping people off as part of their old world mentality to try and force up-sell to the 5D line.

No amount of you or anyone else throwing around features about Canon 6D is going to make a value argument against Nikon's offerings at the price point. It is just a plain fact that the competition is offering more for the same or less money.


Canon is very deliberate in what they add or omit. By omitting the 2nd slot, it is a direct move against anyone with any kind of professional use aspirations for this camera. Canon's view is, if you're going to dodge paying nearly $4,000 for a 5D, then we're going to make you pay for it by accepting the daily risk of losing photos when using the 6D2 on the job.

Nikon doesn't feel this way at all, and within their system - they have a more realistic view of their consumers. The fact is, people will buy what they can afford. If they can afford the 5D4, they will buy it. If they can't afford a 5D series camera - removing the 2nd slot from an entry level FF camera isn't going to miraculously drop $1,800 more dollars into someone's pocket so they can buy the 5D series camera. What part of that don't people understand?? And it isn't a legitimate rebuttal to say "too bad, you can't afford it - you don't get a BMW for a Honda price" ...except when I prove that Nikon does do just that.

In the end, all Canon is doing is unnecessarily, and distastefully crippling the capabilities of a large segment of enthusiasts and entry-level pros.

A lousy, stinking 2nd card slot isn't that much to ask for or expect. It also isn't worthy of this kind of opposition by so many people.

Really bizarre.
 
Upvote 0
K said:
The anti-dual card slot Canon apologists ought to be demanding that Canon removes the second slot from ALL Canon cameras, as to lower the price of all bodies for this allegedly "unnecessary" feature and to bring their arguments into some kind of consistency.

No, this is patently false. No such claim or implication has been made. The assertion is much simpler and can be stated as this: the manufacturer (Canon) is entitled to choose what they put into their cameras and the customer is entitled to decided whether to buy it. I have simply accepted the reality that what I want (as an individual) doesn't matter to Canon or to any other manufacturer; instead, they assess the market as a whole. Neuro's argument is that the market as a whole has spoken in Canon's favor.

Your arguments about what would be useful, inexpensive, appropriate are just fine, and I'm mostly in agreement. I simply believe it's futile to expect those things from a successful manufacturer, so I might as well not work myself into a froth over it.

1. You don't need it.
2. Memory cards are extremely reliable these days and failure is almost unheard of.
3. It just adds unnecessary costs
4. Canon sells a bajillion more cameras than Nikon, so they don't have to give you a 2nd slot.
5. Adding the 2nd slot might cause people to think Canon has bad hardware.
6. If you want 2 slots, buy a pro camera - except that not even pros really need it (see reasons 1 - 5)
7. DSLR's started off with 1 slot. It was good enough in the olden days.
8. Oppose progress at all costs; be grateful for only 1 slot, for we used to have to shoot 35mm film.
9. 2 slots is for the paranoid.
10. Card failures are so rare, just reshoot when it does happen.
11. Your car could break down or a meteor hits the Earth, and you never get to the photoshoot - thus since anything in the universe could cause the photos to not happen, don't sweat missing a 2nd card slot.

Nope, except for (4) none of these is on-target.
 
Upvote 0
I for one am excited about new 6D Mk2 , and I’m ready to purchase new full frame camera. I’m looking forward to seeing what will Canon bring out at this price level.
My wish list would be tilt-screen and better AF , well anything is better that what they have now in 6D. It looks like tilt screen is not going to happen so I would be hoping for improved AF ,improved low light and better DR.
I will then make up my mind if Canon is good value proposal compared to what Nikon is offering.
While I have been with Canon for over 10 years that is not a good reason to stay with Canon.
 
Upvote 0
K said:
It is just a plain fact that the competition is offering more for the same or less money.

Yet they're still apparently not able to sell more cameras than Canon. What does that tell you?


K said:
In the end, all Canon is doing is unnecessarily, and distastefully crippling the capabilities of a large segment of enthusiasts and entry-level pros.

A lousy, stinking 2nd card slot isn't that much to ask for or expect. It also isn't worthy of this kind of opposition by so many people.

Really bizarre.

What's bizzare is that you somehow seem to expect that posting a few hundred repetitive words on a internet forum will make any difference.

If dual card slots are a be-all end-all critical requirement for you, and the 6DII comes with one, OMG what will you do?? Besides post a few hundred more repetitive words on an internet forum whining about it, that is?

I guess you should just buy a D750, as we all know the grass really is greener. After all, Nikon doesn't unnecessarily, and distastefully cripple the capabilities of a large segment of enthusiasts and entry-level pros by excluding a second card slot that mitigates the effect of memory card failure. Of course if your camera fails, you can expect Nikon to take nearly 5 times as long to fix it as Canon and charge more to do so...but I'm sure that's not a problem for enthusiasts and entry-level pros. So hey, enjoy that greener grass, buddy. ::)
 
Upvote 0
K said:
make a value argument

Maybe this is the key.

To a buyer, value is getting the most product for your money.

To a seller, value is getting the most profit for your products.

You have explained how Canon could give us more of the value we want, but you have not explained why Canon would choose to do so at the expense of the value they want.

What, exactly, does Canon get by providing us with additional value at no greater cost?
 
Upvote 0
neuroanatomist said:
Please try to understand… It's not that people are "anti-dual card slot" or "anti-DR". There's an opportunity cost to the addition of any feature. There's no free lunch. What you deem as something critical may not be the case for everyone. You can repeat your mantra until you're blue in the face, it won't change what Canon decides to do.


Judging by the posts, arguments and tone in this thread - I can't help but come across with the impression that people do have something against dual card slot. Or at the very least, these are Canon zealots who come out to defend against any criticism of Canon.

Why? What is Canon to them? Is it their family member? This is a corporation that makes products it tries to sell. As a consumer, I'm out for my best interests which is to get the most value for my dollar - and part of that is comparing features dollar for dollar.

When others don't seem to care at all about this, and even get quite animated about any calling out of Canon - it leads people to wonder if they have any stake in this? Hence, some of the suspicions that there are Canon paid shills in here. But no sense in discussing that as there is no evidence.

The other explanation is just blind, fanatical fan-boys that see no wrong in their brand. We see this in everything, Ford vs Chevy etcetera.

People will value different features. This is a main theme argument in this thread. Different features, different value to different people.

Great! Wonderful.

However, Nikon offers all those features, all together in a camera for less money.

Thus, even that argument is invalid. It's an either/or argument. You're either going to get wifi or you're going to get dual slots for example. Total nonsense.


Canon will do whatever it wants. I will vote with my dollars, and NOT buy the 6D2 unless it has two card slots. Maybe Canon doesn't care? Wonderful. If they can make up the loss of my sale, by getting others to buy on other features that were allegedly added at the expense of two slots (see the either/or argument made above) - that is good for them. Too bad though, that the people who buy for the other features allegedly added and provided at the expense of dual slots are being ripped off, because they could have and should have had that feature provided by Canon for what they are paying based on what the competition is offering. But that is their choice. People can see value in whatever they want - it doesn't mean that is the maximum value they can get.

So let us finally, once and for all dispense with the false theory that the reason Canon doesn't add a dual card slot is because it is some big R&D, and manufacturing expense.


I do want to point something out -


Criticism is a good thing. It helps progress. If everyone got a gold star - what would this world come to? Would there be any innovation if everything were A+ for Canon?


There is a big difference between a hater/troll and someone using sound logic and facts to present very reasonable arguments in favor of something. I'm not some hater or troll coming here to just bash Canon. I don't feel as though anything I've said is out of line. I feel what I've said is normal, standard consumer type opinions based on consumer reasoning. No brand loyalty, no brand hate. No anti-brand agenda. None of that. Canon, overall, is still a superior platform to Nikon. They just aren't giving us as high of a value bodies as they can, and for no other reason but to try and up-sell people committed to the system with lots of glass.

Just to be clear.


I've laid out just about everything that can possibly be said in favor of dual card slots. I've pointed out all possible reasonings why Canon didn't include. I've answered every anti-dual card slot argument in this thread. I've debunked every illogical statement made by Canon apologists.

Canon will likely not include. I will not buy. Done.


Now -- I hope this thread can get back on track to the rest of the rumored features.

Thanks everyone.
 
Upvote 0
K said:
However, Nikon offers all those features, all together in a camera for less money.

Does it have dual pixel phase-detection focusing on 80% of the sensor area? Does it have the availability of an 11-24 rectilinear, an 8-15 zoom fisheye, or a diffraction-limited 100-400mm telephoto? Does it have an optically near-perfect 17mm and 24mm tilt-shift available?
 
Upvote 0
K said:
I will vote with my dollars, and NOT buy the 6D2 unless it has two card slots. Maybe Canon doesn't care? Wonderful. If they can make up the loss of my sale, by getting others to buy on other features that were allegedly added at the expense of two slots
It's more about the full line-up of bodies: Canon doesn't mind losing a 6D2 sale to a 5D4. They probably mind a little losing 6D2 to XXD. They mind a lot if a large number of people choose another brand instead of 6D2.

Criticism is a good thing. It helps progress. If everyone got a gold star - what would this world come to? Would there be any innovation if everything were A+ for Canon?

It certainly is, and I blame all the other brands for failing to get their sh** together and put pressure on Canon. Since they offer better tech at better prices they should be taking market share from Canon. Apparently they're too lame to do so. Until the other companies pull their heads all the way out and threaten Canon's market share Canon will continue to make the choices it does. Your displeasure should be directed at those lame-**S other companies who have such poor business skill that they can't take market share from Canon with superior value.

using sound logic and facts to present very reasonable arguments in favor of something...I feel what I've said is normal, standard consumer type opinions based on consumer reasoning.

I largely agree with your reasoning as to why I should want dual-card slots, but you have not addressed the entirely-separate question of why Canon would choose to give us those additional features.
 
Upvote 0
K said:
Canon is very deliberate in what they add or omit. By omitting the 2nd slot, it is a direct move against anyone with any kind of professional use aspirations for this camera. Canon's view is, if you're going to dodge paying nearly $4,000 for a 5D, then we're going to make you pay for it by accepting the daily risk of losing photos when using the 6D2 on the job..........................

In the end, all Canon is doing is unnecessarily, and distastefully crippling the capabilities of a large segment of enthusiasts and entry-level pros.

A lousy, stinking 2nd card slot isn't that much to ask for or expect. It also isn't worthy of this kind of opposition by so many people.

Really bizarre.

Your comment is bizarre. The "daily risk of losing photos" is as far away from reality as possible. I'd venture that every long time pro has far more film horror stories than card failure stories. I have shot professionally with one card for over ten years and never had a card fail. I paid $6,000 for my camera with two card slots and almost never use both. I recently did a high profile shoot with a 6D and the last thing on my mind was card issues. If card failure was such a pro feature why don't all medium format digital cameras have them, especially given that size and cost and not as relevant to MFD bodies.

Dual card slots are a vastly over hyper 'feature' that the marketeers have managed to convince keen enthusiasts they need.
 
Upvote 0
Such a long and emotional argument about something that is really an individual's preference.

Some like dual cards
Some don't see the need
Some don't really care

Why do some people feel it necessary to convert other people to *their* opinion? ???

Is this really the most important aspect about the 6DII?
 
Upvote 0
privatebydesign said:
K said:
Canon is very deliberate in what they add or omit. By omitting the 2nd slot, it is a direct move against anyone with any kind of professional use aspirations for this camera. Canon's view is, if you're going to dodge paying nearly $4,000 for a 5D, then we're going to make you pay for it by accepting the daily risk of losing photos when using the 6D2 on the job..........................

In the end, all Canon is doing is unnecessarily, and distastefully crippling the capabilities of a large segment of enthusiasts and entry-level pros.

A lousy, stinking 2nd card slot isn't that much to ask for or expect. It also isn't worthy of this kind of opposition by so many people.

Really bizarre.

Your comment is bizarre. The "daily risk of losing photos" is as far away from reality as possible. I'd venture that every long time pro has far more film horror stories than card failure stories. I have shot professionally with one card for over ten years and never had a card fail. I paid $6,000 for my camera with two card slots and almost never use both. I recently did a high profile shoot with a 6D and the last thing on my mind was card issues. If card failure was such a pro feature why don't all medium format digital cameras have them, especially given that size and cost and not as relevant to MFD bodies.

Dual card slots are a vastly over hyper 'feature' that the marketeers have managed to convince keen enthusiasts they need.
I had a card fail on the weekend... I lost 1 image when it died... (and no, it was not bigfoot and Elvis getting out of a flying saucer)

This is the first card failure that I have ever had in 20 years of shooting digital......
 
Upvote 0
All this mindless debating! Good grief!

K, and anyone else who wants two card slots need not be attacked, nor do they need to defend their position. Their is no debate that two card slots offer a safety factor that one card slot does not. This is fact, not opinion.

It is also clear that Canon does not offer this feature in their 6D. Those who want this feature at a comparable price should get the Nikon if it is that important to them. They have options. The feature exists. Buy the camera that has what you want.

It is clear -at least with past experience as a guide - that Canon will not put features into their cheaper cameras if that will keep people from buying more expensive cameras in their lineup. This is not a sin, or deplorable, or outrageous. It is what most manufacturers do - whether you are buying a TV, car, computer, etc. The fact that Nikon is offering more features in their cheaper models is a break for the consumer, but it may prove to be a poor strategy for the company. Or perhaps their strategy will work. Only time will tell. But the choice is there for the consumer. Be satisfied with what you get from Canon - knowing their strategy, or switch to Nikon or other camera maker - knowing their strategies. Those are your choices. Whining and complaining about Canon's strategy won't make them change their strategy, especially if it is succeeding.
 
Upvote 0