More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

[mbj68]

I have to admit that half the fun of a new camera announcement is watching all the negative nellies waging warfare on anything Canon while getting their knowledge and logic destroyed by the depth of knowledge available here on CR. Of course the other half is finding out all the newest stuff coming out that my hands are itching to get a hold of!

Keep up the good work everyone!

8)

 

[rrcphoto]

I'm totally confused about this new "dual pixel" feature. Don't know what to believe any more.

I didn't quite understand the technical reason why separated pixel halves would give more DR than combining them (as previously in 7D2, 70D, 80D) in-camera?

It probably wouldn't unless as has been suggested Canon has implemented at the hardware level the ability to drive sensitivity to each sub-pixel individually. I suspect people are grasping at straws given a poorly translated rumor. More likely, it will have on-sensor ADC, which facilitates lower read noise versus 7D2 and 70D.

except canon or anyone has never called a normal CR2 a "dual pixel RAW" file .. and even in the japanese comments.. the comments suggest this is a new raw format.

so it's either just a 16 bit raw file or it's something different alltogether.

a dual pixel sensor AND a raw file specifically isn't new .. that's been done since obviously the 60D so what's "new".

digicam is nearly 100% accurate. usually if you see posted details from their sources. that's it.

 

[3kramd5]

...
From that link:

"...makes it possible to arrange focus detection pixels without generating pixels unavailable as image capture pixels"

In other words, the AF pixels are not AF only, they serve both, which is why it's special.

Right, which suggests that there's more than just the RGBG pixels.

No, what it suggests is that within each R, G, and B pixel, there are two individual photodiodes instead of one. One reads from one half of the lens, one from the other, generating phase information. And together, they provide a brightness value for the entire pixel.

Thus, you can arrange AF pixels without losing imaging pixels, as opposed to other on sensor PDAF wherein the AF pixels replace imaging pixels (which isn't a big deal if you have a relatively small number of them).

 

[rrcphoto]

I haven't seen a spec for the battery, current 5d3 battery, new1dx2 battery or a completely new battery?

I'd be surprised if it's not the LP-E6N like the 7D and 5ds.

 

[Loswr]

..... His point – "pixels that are twice as high as they are wide" – is individual pixels with a 2:1 aspect ratio. A somewhat bigger difference than you're discussing.

... What I meant was double the count of the pixels, not the dimensions of the pixels. ;-)

Got it. Still, a 30 MP sensor with a 3:2 aspect ratio would yield images of approximately 6750x4500. If you're doubling the count of the pixels with the dual pixels which are all split along the same (vertical) axis, that resulting 60 MP image becomes 13500x4500. When you display such an image on any typical display (camera LCD, phone, monitor, TV) it's going to display as a 3:1 image.

Phew.... I forgot their order. True. Indeed. Maybe indeed it's all about higher DR in the end.

I dont think it would ever be displayed like that. I suspect that's what the new RAW format has embedded whereby you'll need to use Canon DPP to translate a shot taken with this feature enabled back into the 6750x4500 aspect ratio once it recombined each pair of sub-pixels in DPAF.

I agree, but then you can't really call it a 60 MP image, now, can you?

 

[ahsanford]

I have to admit that half the fun of a new camera announcement is watching all the negative nellies waging warfare on anything Canon while getting their knowledge and logic destroyed by the depth of knowledge available here on CR. Of course the other half is finding out all the newest stuff coming out that my hands are itching to get a hold of!

Keep up the good work everyone!

8)

Speaking of which: POLLS!

What do you hate? http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30526.0

What do you love? http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30527.0

DO IT.

- A

 

[Loswr]

...
From that link:

"...makes it possible to arrange focus detection pixels without generating pixels unavailable as image capture pixels"

In other words, the AF pixels are not AF only, they serve both, which is why it's special.

Right, which suggests that there's more than just the RGBG pixels.

No, what it suggests is that within each R, G, and B pixel, there are two individual photodiodes instead of one. One reads from one half of the lens, one from the other, generating phase information. And together, they provide a brightness value for the entire pixel.

Thus, you can arrange AF pixels without losing imaging pixels, as opposed to other on sensor PDAF wherein the AF pixels replace imaging pixels (which isn't a big deal if you have a relatively small number of them).

Right, which confirms that as usual, dilbert doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

 

[mmeerdam]

How about dpaf-raw means you can selectively (per pixel / per area) reduce noise (and moire) because dpaf information provides a recording if something was in focus/sharp at the moment of capture.

It could mean you can reduce noise in out of focus parts far stronger while keeping sharp in-focus defined edges crisp.

 

[rrcphoto]

..... His point – "pixels that are twice as high as they are wide" – is individual pixels with a 2:1 aspect ratio. A somewhat bigger difference than you're discussing.

... What I meant was double the count of the pixels, not the dimensions of the pixels. ;-)

Got it. Still, a 30 MP sensor with a 3:2 aspect ratio would yield images of approximately 6750x4500. If you're doubling the count of the pixels with the dual pixels which are all split along the same (vertical) axis, that resulting 60 MP image becomes 13500x4500. When you display such an image on any typical display (camera LCD, phone, monitor, TV) it's going to display as a 3:1 image.

Phew.... I forgot their order. True. Indeed. Maybe indeed it's all about higher DR in the end.

I dont think it would ever be displayed like that. I suspect that's what the new RAW format has embedded whereby you'll need to use Canon DPP to translate a shot taken with this feature enabled back into the 6750x4500 aspect ratio once it recombined each pair of sub-pixels in DPAF.

I agree, but then you can't really call it a 60 MP image, now, can you?

no, it's not...

it's either just a weird way of saying .. it's a new sensor .. and better raw (ie: like the 1Dx Mark II .. stated it had greater lattitude).

or they did something clever.

IMO.. the ability to know the distance of each pixel could be intriguing... you are then photographing both the x,y image and also the spacial distance.

that could be useful for complex NR algorithms that would for instance only worry about detail in the plane of focus, or even deconvolution of the AA filter and/or diffraction perhaps.

 

[naylor83]

How about dpaf-raw means you can selectively (per pixel / per area) reduce noise (and moire) because dpaf information provides a recording if something was in focus/sharp at the moment of capture.

It could mean you can reduce noise in out of focus parts far stronger while keeping sharp in-focus defined edges crisp.

I really like the sound of that! Not getting my hopes up though.

 

[mmeerdam]

IMO.. the ability to know the distance of each pixel could be intriguing... you are then photographing both the x,y image and also the spacial distance.

that could be useful for complex NR algorithms that would for instance only worry about detail in the plane of focus, or even deconvolution of the AA filter and/or diffraction perhaps.

this is what i meant but better worded!
Maybe you can even alter blur amount / bokeh somewhat based on this?

edit: if this is true - it's even bigger than i thought, it opens up a lot of potential to have depth information included.

 

[Cthulhu]

Interesting. And starting to sound like I'll be ordering one.

What's the little thingy between the joystick and wheel, next to Q?

That's af arear quick select. Its a little toggle switch they put the same on the 7d mk2 battery grip

 

[testthewest]

As someone quite new to this site and photography in general I have one thing I don't understand about the new 5D Series model:
Why doesn't it have the flip screen of the cheaper models like my 70D? I find this option really helpful in alot of situations and truely wonder: Why did they omit it? Do more expirienced photographers not like this feature?

 

[ahsanford]

As someone quite new to this site and photography in general I have one thing I don't understand about the new 5D Series model:
Why doesn't it have the flip screen of the cheaper models like my 70D? I find this option really helpful in alot of situations and truely wonder: Why did they omit it? Do more expirienced photographers not like this feature?

Tilty-flippy screens, for one reason or another, have been thought of as a consumer (soccer mom / hockey dad / millenial selfie) sort of photographic need that serious photogs don't need.

Pros / skeptics / older photographers have for a long time said that they saw it as a risk -- it was flimsy and could break, it could threaten weather sealing, they'd have to baby their rig with such a feature on it, etc.

But three things happened:

1) Video in SLRs took off
2) The consumer-grade versions of these things showed a great track record in the field of holding up well
3) People with brains realized if you don't want tilty-flippy, you can just leave it locked down and use it like your prior (rigid screen) camera.

Now, I'd say a good 75% of this forum wants a tilty-flippy. I have little doubt that it will be near the top of my 'gripe' poll with these 5D4 leaked specs.

- A

 

[CanonGuy]

I am not a spec geek. I am a 5D3 owner and absolutely don't care about video, AF points (i always center focus and recompose) and FPS. Should I consider upgrading to 5D4? What do you guys say? I exclusively shoot weddings btw. I will get a new body at the end of this year and just researching my options.

I wish they had released a model without 4k at a lower price. I never recorded a 5 sec video with my 5D3 or 6D :'( Yeeeiii for the videographers I guess haha

 

[Talley]

Another thing I hope they put in the 5D4 is the voltage increasing thing they did to the 7D2 so it drives the big white lenses faster like the 1D series cameras do. I would much appreciate if they added this feature.

 

[Talley]

I am not a spec geek. I am a 5D3 owner and absolutely don't care about video, AF points (i always center focus and recompose) and FPS. Should I consider upgrading to 5D4? What do you guys say? I exclusively shoot weddings btw. I will get a new body at the end of this year and just researching my options.

Your only option should be the 1dx2 unless you don't like 20mp then 5DsR or 5D4 are about it unless you jump ship and then I don't think thats an option since you shoot weddings and like having better skin tones.

 

[CanonGuy]

I am not a spec geek. I am a 5D3 owner and absolutely don't care about video, AF points (i always center focus and recompose) and FPS. Should I consider upgrading to 5D4? What do you guys say? I exclusively shoot weddings btw. I will get a new body at the end of this year and just researching my options.

Your only option should be the 1dx2 unless you don't like 20mp then 5DsR or 5D4 are about it unless you jump ship and then I don't think thats an option since you shoot weddings and like having better skin tones.

Can you elaborate a bit on that? I didn't have any clue about that! Thanks in advance for helping out. IDx2 is a bit out of my price range at this point.

 

[Talley]

I am not a spec geek. I am a 5D3 owner and absolutely don't care about video, AF points (i always center focus and recompose) and FPS. Should I consider upgrading to 5D4? What do you guys say? I exclusively shoot weddings btw. I will get a new body at the end of this year and just researching my options.

Your only option should be the 1dx2 unless you don't like 20mp then 5DsR or 5D4 are about it unless you jump ship and then I don't think thats an option since you shoot weddings and like having better skin tones.

Can you elaborate a bit on that? I didn't have any clue about that! Thanks in advance for helping out.

Just read a ton by wedding pros that most that have shot canon and nikon prefer Canon for the skin tones.

 

[Talley]

I heard the 5D4 has the same toggle lever like found on the BG-E16 16 grip for the 7D2 because the BG-E16 will be the grip for the 5D4 as well and wanted to keep the same exact lever for both areas of the camera instead how the 7D2 each position is a different style lever.