New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

[privatebydesign]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

Since the slightest tilt up or down of the lens (at 11mm) is going to show massively converging/diverging verticals, then using such a lens is going to take some real care and thought about what the images are for and how they are to be cropped or even adjusted in PS.

Well that can be corrected by 'reverse' tilting the camera, and, as you well know, the shorter the focal length the less angular tilt you need for the same effect, if Canon stuck to their traditional 8º-8.5º of tilt you would have the same effect as over 17º of tilt on the 24mm, that leaves plenty of tilt to do the correction.

I understood the convergence to be a function of the pretty extreme retrofocus designs of the 17 and 24 and not an intrinsic function of tilt/swing, certainly the 17 displays the effect much more than the 24 and an 11mm would be even worse.

 

[keithcooper]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

Since the slightest tilt up or down of the lens (at 11mm) is going to show massively converging/diverging verticals, then using such a lens is going to take some real care and thought about what the images are for and how they are to be cropped or even adjusted in PS.

Well that can be corrected by 'reverse' tilting the camera, and, as you well know, the shorter the focal length the less angular tilt you need for the same effect, if Canon stuck to their traditional 8º-8.5º of tilt you would have the same effect as over 17º of tilt on the 24mm, that leaves plenty of tilt to do the correction.

I understood the convergence to be a function of the pretty extreme retrofocus designs of the 17 and 24 and not an intrinsic function of tilt/swing, certainly the 17 displays the effect much more than the 24 and an 11mm would be even worse.

I was thinking of the convergence/divergence of verticals you get with any wide lens, which is just a feature of going to wider fields of view rather than lens design. In this instance, I should have said "tilt up or down of the camera" since I didn't mean anything connected with lens/camera movements.

With the EF14 it's very noticeable how trees lean inwards if you move the horizon much below mid frame, that and clouds can take on very different shapes.

Perhaps one reason I notice this so readily, comes from using wide and shift lenses hand held, something I find makes me pay that bit more attention to composition. If I'm visiting somewhere new on a job, the tripod comes out for the paid work, but if just 'looking around' I'm happy to have just the 8-15, TS-E17 and 24-70 with me - the tripod stays in the car... I'd go so far as to say that if you're learning to use a wide TS-E lens, then (occasionally) ditching the tripod is a great way to get a much more immediate 'feel' for how what's in front of you is going to be represented (YMMV ;-).

If anyone is curious about some of these differences in view, this stitched shot is from my review of the EF8-15 and is taken with the TS-E17 shifted up/down by 12mm, giving a field of view not dissimilar to this rumoured new zoom at 11mm

There are views of the same scene with the EF8-15 and EF14 in the review (about half way down)
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/lenses/canon_ef8-15f4l.html

 

[Thaikon]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

Canon EOS Digital Elan lol

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

Since the slightest tilt up or down of the lens (at 11mm) is going to show massively converging/diverging verticals, then using such a lens is going to take some real care and thought about what the images are for and how they are to be cropped or even adjusted in PS.

Well that can be corrected by 'reverse' tilting the camera, and, as you well know, the shorter the focal length the less angular tilt you need for the same effect, if Canon stuck to their traditional 8º-8.5º of tilt you would have the same effect as over 17º of tilt on the 24mm, that leaves plenty of tilt to do the correction.

I understood the convergence to be a function of the pretty extreme retrofocus designs of the 17 and 24 and not an intrinsic function of tilt/swing, certainly the 17 displays the effect much more than the 24 and an 11mm would be even worse.

I was thinking of the convergence/divergence of verticals you get with any wide lens, which is just a feature of going to wider fields of view rather than lens design. In this instance, I should have said "tilt up or down of the camera" since I didn't mean anything connected with lens/camera movements.

With the EF14 it's very noticeable how trees lean inwards if you move the horizon much below mid frame, that and clouds can take on very different shapes.

Perhaps one reason I notice this so readily, comes from using wide and shift lenses hand held, something I find makes me pay that bit more attention to composition. If I'm visiting somewhere new on a job, the tripod comes out for the paid work, but if just 'looking around' I'm happy to have just the 8-15, TS-E17 and 24-70 with me - the tripod stays in the car... I'd go so far as to say that if you're learning to use a wide TS-E lens, then (occasionally) ditching the tripod is a great way to get a much more immediate 'feel' for how what's in front of you is going to be represented (YMMV ;-).

If anyone is curious about some of these differences in view, this stitched shot is from my review of the EF8-15 and is taken with the TS-E17 shifted up/down by 12mm, giving a field of view not dissimilar to this rumoured new zoom at 11mm

There are views of the same scene with the EF8-15 and EF14 in the review (about half way down)
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/lenses/canon_ef8-15f4l.html

Ah, yes, that makes much more sense, sorry I misunderstood.

I have often framed to crop with the 15mm fisheye, and I remember seeing a very cool wedding image by Joe Buissink, he shot it with the 14mm and insisted he had needed to use that lens. The couple were in the bottom of the frame with fireworks bursting in the sky above. It didn't make sense to me until he showed the original file, the couple were actually standing on the roof of a van and they were just below the frame center pre crop, so when it was cropped they had no distortion but he had the fov to include the fireworks too, it was a perfect example of imaginative pre visualization and mitigation of ultra wide projection distortion.

 

[Lee Jay]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

I have often framed to crop with the 15mm fisheye, and I remember seeing a very cool wedding image by Joe Buissink, he shot it with the 14mm and insisted he had needed to use that lens. The couple were in the bottom of the frame with fireworks bursting in the sky above. It didn't make sense to me until he showed the original file, the couple were actually standing on the roof of a van and they were just below the frame center pre crop, so when it was cropped they had no distortion but he had the fov to include the fireworks too, it was a perfect example of imaginative pre visualization and mitigation of ultra wide projection distortion.

There's a slider for that in Lightroom.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

I have often framed to crop with the 15mm fisheye, and I remember seeing a very cool wedding image by Joe Buissink, he shot it with the 14mm and insisted he had needed to use that lens. The couple were in the bottom of the frame with fireworks bursting in the sky above. It didn't make sense to me until he showed the original file, the couple were actually standing on the roof of a van and they were just below the frame center pre crop, so when it was cropped they had no distortion but he had the fov to include the fireworks too, it was a perfect example of imaginative pre visualization and mitigation of ultra wide projection distortion.

There's a slider for that in Lightroom.

Yes and that slider is so generic and focused on rectilinear corrections it is all but useless most of the time for me. I do highly recommend a little plugin called Fisheye Hemi, it is the only ps plugin I use regularly, though the newer ps lens field corrections are so powerful even it has become nearly obsolete. The only other player in the game for high quality corrections is the dreaded DxO, their anamorphic corrections are pretty amazing, and very time consuming to replicate well in ps.

 

[Lee Jay]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

I have often framed to crop with the 15mm fisheye, and I remember seeing a very cool wedding image by Joe Buissink, he shot it with the 14mm and insisted he had needed to use that lens. The couple were in the bottom of the frame with fireworks bursting in the sky above. It didn't make sense to me until he showed the original file, the couple were actually standing on the roof of a van and they were just below the frame center pre crop, so when it was cropped they had no distortion but he had the fov to include the fireworks too, it was a perfect example of imaginative pre visualization and mitigation of ultra wide projection distortion.

There's a slider for that in Lightroom.

Yes and that slider is so generic and focused on rectilinear corrections it is all but useless most of the time for me. I do highly recommend a little plugin called Fisheye Hemi, it is the only ps plugin I use regularly, though the newer ps lens field corrections are so powerful even it has become nearly obsolete. The only other player in the game for high quality corrections is the dreaded DxO, their anamorphic corrections are pretty amazing, and very time consuming to replicate well in ps.

Well, that's for something else entirely. For that I recommend Hugin and all of its many projection and shift transformations including General Panini.

 

[keithcooper]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

I have often framed to crop with the 15mm fisheye, and I remember seeing a very cool wedding image by Joe Buissink, he shot it with the 14mm and insisted he had needed to use that lens. The couple were in the bottom of the frame with fireworks bursting in the sky above. It didn't make sense to me until he showed the original file, the couple were actually standing on the roof of a van and they were just below the frame center pre crop, so when it was cropped they had no distortion but he had the fov to include the fireworks too, it was a perfect example of imaginative pre visualization and mitigation of ultra wide projection distortion.

There's a slider for that in Lightroom.

Yes, but I'd have to use Lightroom... ;-)

But seriously...
Unfortunately, such corrections applied afterwards can lead to cropping that is unpredictable at the time of taking, and gets worse, the wider the lens. Better than nothing, but not as good as using the right lens if you have it.

Knowing that you're going to crop the bottom off the image in the example above, allows you to frame the people and fireworks and only needs a simple crop. It's essentially the same thing as using shift - indeed I've done similar things with a TS-E17 - perhaps not a lens I'd normally associate with wedding photography though ;-)

I'd second the mention of fisheye-hemi. For its simplicity (and cheap too) it's worked wonders on many fisheye images. http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/stuff2/?p=2704
also, my original look at it: http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/plugins/fish-eye-hemi.html

For architectural use with fisheye, it's very useful in that you can straighten verticals but not other lines

It's a great one for making interior spaces look huge (probably why it's so popular when I'm shooting office interiors for commercial property developments ;-)

It's also great for close pictures of groups of people, either with the fisheye (13-15mm), or a normal wide angle shot (add some barrel distortion and then apply FE hemi) where you have people stretched towards the edges.

I rarely photograph groups of people, but I'd agree that DxO Optics Pro (or just ViewPoint) has some very pleasing looking corrections too. I've also made a 'pano' from a single image in AutoPano Giga, just so as to be able to use a wider range of geometry changes.

As ever there are many ways of doing things - I've looked at a lot of software tools for such work (well, ones that work on my Mac) and to me usability counts for a great deal. I'd always suggest experimenting to see what 'fits' your style of working and what you need...
...Oh, and I still dislike LR ;-)

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

Damn you, Canon – you keep coming up with clever ways to deplete my gear fund before it accumulates sufficiently for the 300/2.8L IS II.

It's been a while since it's been said here....but Canon are the ones who make money out of Photography....not the photographer's who use their cameras and lenses. Most of the photographic genres are a drying pool of income, contracting circles or already dry wells. look at stock, look at fashion, look at sports. Even papers don't like to pay for front covers any more. The more photos there are, the less someone is prepared to pay for one. 4

It's an interesting lens, I used to really enjoy my Siggi 12-24mm. I really like my TS-e 17L and 8-15mm fish. I'm sure I'll enjoy this lens once the price has fallen to a sane level.

 

[ewg963]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

Damn you, Canon – you keep coming up with clever ways to deplete my gear fund before it accumulates sufficiently for the 300/2.8L IS II.

It's been a while since it's been said here....but Canon are the ones who make money out of Photography....not the photographer's who use their cameras and lenses. Most of the photographic genres are a drying pool of income, contracting circles or already dry wells. look at stock, look at fashion, look at sports. Even papers don't like to pay for front covers any more. The more photos there are, the less someone is prepared to pay for one. 4

It's an interesting lens, I used to really enjoy my Siggi 12-24mm. I really like my TS-e 17L and 8-15mm fish. I'm sure I'll enjoy this lens once the price has fallen to a sane level.

Ditto that...

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

Damn you, Canon – you keep coming up with clever ways to deplete my gear fund before it accumulates sufficiently for the 300/2.8L IS II.

It's been a while since it's been said here....but Canon are the ones who make money out of Photography....not the photographer's who use their cameras and lenses. Most of the photographic genres are a drying pool of income, contracting circles or already dry wells. look at stock, look at fashion, look at sports. Even papers don't like to pay for front covers any more. The more photos there are, the less someone is prepared to pay for one. 4

It's an interesting lens, I used to really enjoy my Siggi 12-24mm. I really like my TS-e 17L and 8-15mm fish. I'm sure I'll enjoy this lens once the price has fallen to a sane level.

I am sorry but for me, who might be in the minority here but I know I am not alone, that is simply not true. Sure I don't make anything like the money many here do judging by the money they spend on their 'hobbies', but all my gear has paid for itself many many times over. There is money to be made in photography, some are doing very well, and whilst the old business model is dead the need for high quality images delivered on time is bigger than ever.

 

[jepabst]

Re: New Rebel & EF 11-24 f/4L USM Coming Shortly

I agree. My gear has paid for itself 10, neh, 20 times over. I am able to make more profit each year as my need for overhead goes down as I accrue lenses and other peripherals.

I will say, I have diversified to do more for sure; moving into commercial, corporate, weddings ect.. to make those dollars.