Nikon officially announced the Z 8, which is aimed squarely at the Canon EOS R5

Jul 21, 2010
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Sorry to hear about your financial situation, I hope it gets better.
Speaking of rude...you seem to fit that description quite well.

Also don't put someone elses words in my mouth - it's rude. I never said anything about the R5 having a lack of competitiveness or that the R5 was caught "hands down". I just pointed out that when comparing prices, as has been done in this thread, one should adjust for inflation.
That's why @Maximilian stated in his reply to you, "The R5 got caught 'hands down', as other said," – meaning, someone else said that, not you.

Not sure why this got your panties in a twist.
Sure, sure. Pot, kettle. Better pluck yours out before you hurt yourself.
 
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Do you mean the British English way, or the American English way? ;) When I was in Tanzania, they used the long E. YMMV. Or is that YKMV, your kilometeradge may vary? That really rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it?
mileage, footage of video, height... aussies tend to be bilingual and float between both systems depending on the context.
Converting in my head from ounces, Fahrenheit and whichever gallon is used is painful.
I just wish Americans could point to where the "g" is in "luxury".
 
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IF Nikon disappeared, it wouldn't be a shame, it would IMO be an absolute tragedy, but don't worry, they *will* sell enough cameras and lenses, so we won't be "losing" Nikon. Actually I don't really see either Nikon or Sony as competitors, I think the 3 brands complement each other, providing different specs, different ergonomics and different prices. That gives us huge choice, and is good for us and the camera manufacturing business in general. Nikon is by no means dooooomed, a company doesn't have to be huge to ensure its continued success.
True but the cost of future R&D does need current cashflows to support it.
If margins are reduced to try to sell a greater volume of existing products but fail to do so, then this will decrease their future ability to have great products.

My take of Nikon at the moment is that they have some great products.... but at very competitive prices. The Z9 vs R3 vs A1 is the obvious one. The Z8 seems to be cannibalising the Z9 in a lot of ways. I hope that they sell enough to continue to make good products but their market share is suffering over time.

True high end products from leatherwear to Apple don't discount and have consistently good sales volume despite everyone knowing that the margin is high vs the competition.

The only other option is to follow Leica etc into higher prices for better (in only some ways) quality and performance
 
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Jun 27, 2013
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Maximilian

The dark side - I've been there
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Also don't put someone elses words in my mouth - it's rude.
I never did so, but I did directly mention "others".
But it is rude from YOU to offend me like that :mad:, especially when I mark my post as "sarcastic".
Your excuse is welcome. Thanks in advance.
 
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Jethro

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Here is another update from Dpreview that they will continue to post news and articles on their site.
They seem to be posting regularly (like multiple daily). Someone might almost think they were keeping it running in the hope of selling a going concern.
 
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Maximilian

The dark side - I've been there
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I offered my excuse to Maximilian. I hope we are all good now.
It takes courage to apologize in a forum like this.
I appreciate that very much.
Done! Thank you!
I apologize as well because I have to recognize that my post caused you to misread it.
 
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entoman

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True but the cost of future R&D does need current cashflows to support it.
If margins are reduced to try to sell a greater volume of existing products but fail to do so, then this will decrease their future ability to have great products.

My take of Nikon at the moment is that they have some great products.... but at very competitive prices. The Z9 vs R3 vs A1 is the obvious one. The Z8 seems to be cannibalising the Z9 in a lot of ways. I hope that they sell enough to continue to make good products but their market share is suffering over time.

True high end products from leatherwear to Apple don't discount and have consistently good sales volume despite everyone knowing that the margin is high vs the competition.

The only other option is to follow Leica etc into higher prices for better (in only some ways) quality and performance
Canon and Nikon are taking different approaches.

Canon is in a stronger position and is maximising its options, with one group of cameras and lenses aimed at pros and affluent hobbyists (leaning towards the Leica approach), and another set of gear aimed very squarely at those on much lower budgets. It's a winning strategy, reinforced by restricting native lens availability to their own glass.

Nikon are pitching themselves in the middle, offering high specifications in every model, and keeping their prices low. They clearly hope that the revenue from increased sales will be enough to continue funding development, and it seems to be working for them. I'd imagine that if/when they increase their market share, that they'll then increase prices.

Theoretically, the Z8 would cannibalise sales of Z9, but in practice I don't think that will happen. The Z9 is a behemoth, built to the highest standard for durability and with a grip that not only allows excellent battery life, but is also regarded as essential by many sports and wildlife pros. Nikon has always sought to offer maximum specs and maximum value in all their models, so we shouldn't really be surprised at the Z8. It's aimed at those who want the best possible specs, but don't want a grip, or battlefield build quality. The 2 models are aimed at very different users.
 
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entoman

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They seem to be posting regularly (like multiple daily). Someone might almost think they were keeping it running in the hope of selling a going concern.
I'm 100% convinced that dpr will continue. They are probably negotiating terms with at least one buyer/sponsor, right this moment. The big camera and lens manufacturers only very rarely advertise on dpr, presumably because they think that the reviews in themselves will be enough to attract customers. So one possible business model might be to convince Nikon, Canon, Sony etc to advertise. The closest they get at the moment is "sponsored content". Another model might be to reduce the number of videos and tutorials (I'd guess e.g. that Erez Marom, and Chris & Jordan, don't come cheap). I'm sure dpr will survive, but there will be considerable restructuring.
 
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entoman

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Depends on the L-bracket. Mine are from RRS.

View attachment 208938
Still way off to one side though, which makes it more difficult to use for close-ups. I find myself glancing back and forth to the left and then back to centre when trying to locate/follow small nearby subjects. Canon are very stubborn. They've decided this is the type of flippy they want, but I think a Panasonic/Fujifilm style screen, which can remain on axis in both planes, as well as be flipped out and reversed, is a far superior option. Pretty sturdy too - I haven't heard anyone complaining about fragility.
 
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entoman

wildlife photography
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Will the forums survive, too? They remind me of a line from a movie...

View attachment 208943
I couldn't agree more. The dpr forums have always been very toxic, and the moderators are definitely prejudiced, although perhaps less so in more recent months. In many ways it would be a vast improvement if dpr dumped the comments/forums altogether. But as is the case with CR, the interaction provided by those sections are a large part of why people visit the site in the first place. The forums are a real problem for dpr, Fortunately here on CR, where we are all using the same brand, such stupidity is rare.
 
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entoman

wildlife photography
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Admitedly it was not a nice post. I removed it and want to aplogogize for what was an unnecessary aggressive language. Sorry mate
It takes courage to apologize in a forum like this.
I appreciate that very much.
Done! Thank you!
I apologize as well because I have to recognize that my post caused you to misread it.
Well done, gentlemen :)
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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Still way off to one side though, which makes it more difficult to use for close-ups. I find myself glancing back and forth to the left and then back to centre when trying to locate/follow small nearby subjects. Canon are very stubborn. They've decided this is the type of flippy they want, but I think a Panasonic/Fujifilm style screen, which can remain on axis in both planes, as well as be flipped out and reversed, is a far superior option. Pretty sturdy too - I haven't heard anyone complaining about fragility.
They've decided that for the DSLRs and the R series. The M series LCDs flip up straight with an additional hinge piece so they can flip down as well.

M6II LCD.jpg

I do like the articulations used on some of the Panasonic/Fuji displays a lot!
 
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Dreysi

Canon R3, Sony A7s
Jul 7, 2016
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I wonder if their AF has caught up to the R5, or even R6II level of tracking yet?

We could play a fun game - if Canon released this camera what specs would it be panned for? I'll start -

- Too slow at 20fps
- wrong bit depth on 8k video
- mis-matched card slots
- no pre-shoot buffer



All that aside i'm sure this will be a great body. I'm not super willing to swtich or maintain two systems though. My R6 is meeting all my needs, but I might like a stacked sensor to avoid the few rolling shutter artifacts i see in a few of my sports images.

-Brian
Oh and I LOVE the micro hdmi port on my R3...
 
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Dreysi

Canon R3, Sony A7s
Jul 7, 2016
32
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I agree, I'm a little baffled by this new Nikon.
I'm struggling to see what the fuss is about.
To me it looks like Nikon have placed a similar camera to the Canon R5, at 1$K expensive and 3 years late.
I'm not seeing much benefit over the Canon and the Canon is due for replacement...and it's cheaper...and it's been around for a while....and...it's very similar specced.
Agree with most of this but it does have some nice advantages like the HDMI slot and few other things. Even if i hated video (which I shoot 50%) I still use my atomos for macro work and hate that they left that out. The A7s3 has a full size one. Oh and R5 got raw out but not R3 lalala. Still more happy with Canon I guess but this Nikon would be compelling if it were purchase time for me. Oh an their birding and telphoto lenses are very compelling price wise for the quality.

Do agree on the price though which is why my second body will be an R5, can get it on sale for $2000 aud less than the Z8 and it's just as powerful when you weigh it all up. Some wins some losses but a great rig. All in all it should be good for us Canon shooters that Nikon and Panasonic are finally catching up and we can get some more features in our already great cameras.
 
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