Nikon's D4 Officially Official

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

Here is the actual quote from the leaked praise release:

The unit takes the AF mode select switch from the D7000 and uses improved 51-point AF points with 9 cross-type sensor and a beefed up AF module allowing focus with an f/8 lens and faster (up from f/5.6). The AF detection range is now down to EV-2.0.

If true, that's pretty weak. The D3 variants all had 15 f/5.6 crosses, not sure why they'd drop it to 9...

 

[epsiloneri]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

So, in short, people expecting the D4 would be "1-stop better" than the 1Dx at high ISO just because its advertised rumored native High ISO is "1-stop higher" than the earlier announced 1Dx would be in for a grainy & blotchy surprise.

I agree. Advertised ISO range has nothing to do with sensitivity. It's like asking how far your tele lens can shoot (something I'm asked from time to time ;D).

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

It's like asking how far your tele lens can shoot (something I'm asked from time to time

That's easy. "To infinity...and beyond!"

 

[jrista]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

Am I alone in finding it a bit suspicious that Nikon magically found a way to jump from their previous highest native ISO of 12800 to this stunning 104k ISO in an "overnight" response to Canon's 1DX and its native 51200 ISO? If Nikon announced a D4 with the same ISO as the 1D X for release some 6-8 months from now, I would have a much easier time believing it...but this really smells of fresh fish.

I would also expect competition on all fronts, not just the ISO front. FPS, AF capabilities and performance, etc. It seems a bit odd that Nikon would release competition to the 1DX before they even have a chance to get their hands on one and make sure their next flagship really is competition...

I think you're missing the point a little with this release.

The only real complaint the Nikon lot have with their D3s is the small MP size. Most of the pros only wanted 16, 18 at a push. We have to remember, at this level we are talking about a tool for a job, not something with which to practice a hobby and enjoy creating art.

The torch was not Nikon's to gain, but Canons to try and get back. Realistically, how many people will jump ship from this to the 1DX? Not very many - it will be enough to keep the Nikon pros happy.

As for how relevant is high ISO in the real world? Whose real world are you talking about?
Yours?
Or the press photographer who gets a grainy picture of a paramedic pumping attending Princess Diana in a poorly lit tunnel at 2 or 3 in the morning? Even as a Train Driver, high ISO was an important aspect of 'my real world'.

These cameras are designed to 'get that pic' that pays the rent under almost any condition, and i'm fairly sure that they will both do that - just that on current specs, Canon have regained the flagship pro series mantel from Nikon.

I'm not sure where your coming from with the whole "real-world" bit. I never mentioned real-world performance in my question. I'm fully aware of the value of high ISO...my question is, is Nikon's ISO 104k actually usable in the real world, or is it simply a marketing gimmick...simply slapping on a higher number as a pure measure of competition, without actually improving anything? From a real-world standpoint, if Nikon's ISO 104k, or even 51200, isn't really much better than its predecessors, then its a moot selling point, and Nikon would have serviced both themselves AND their customers better by waiting to release something that really brought beneficial, useful high ISO for those very real-world projects.

 

[nightbreath]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

I've used translator to grasp the meaning of the article above, here's what it gave me:

Sensor: CMOS 16 MP FX format (24x36 mm)
Sensitivity: 100 to 12800 ISO (ext. 50 - 204 800)
Autofocus: 51 points
Viewfinder: pentaprism, 100% coverage, 0.7x magnification
FPS: 10 to 12 frames / second
Measurement: 3D Matrix II Color 91000 points
Screen: 8.1 cm
Video: Full HD 1080p
Memory cards: CF / XQD
Dimensions / weight: 160x157x91 mm / 1.34 kg
Price: € 5800

Everyone was waiting for the successor of the semi-pro D700 and the pro SLR D3s which will be replaced in February. The quantities required are not commensurate with those of the future "D800" that will address a much broader customer base. However, the D4 is one of really good news, and will return investments to the business of Nikon.

Reasonable resolution

The D4 replaces D3s of 2009 that was an evolution of the D3 released in 2007. The version of "rich-pixel" D3x, which appeared in 2009, is currently in the queue, waiting for possible "D4x". Rather than the image resolution, the main aim of D4 is sensitivity and speed. The new FX-format sensor (24x36 mm) that adopted 16 MP, is far from being unique these days when even amateur models can exceed 20 MP. But it is a figure that makes you more comfortable than 12 MP in D3s, and considered sufficient for reporters. Advantage of the less amount in photosites is that they perform better: the sensitivity is from ISO 100 to ISO 12800 and goes up to 204 800 ISO in extended mode! The ISO range is limited by default to ensure a relatively quick process in burst that is announced to be 10 frames / second (instead of 9 frames / second of the D3s).

The fastest of all?

The unit will go up to 11 frames / second at full resolution, but without focusing after the first shot, and even to 12 frames / second in DX image format (8 MP). The shutter system (mirror included) has now reached a 400,000 life cycle. Considering the burst shooting speed D4 is the Nikon's fastest device ever made. Nikon states that the sensitivity of the focus points was improved, even if you work with teleconverters. Moreover, the selection and display of AF points have been simplified, as we have seen in the grip. On the other hand, the autofocus is supported not only by a brand new EXPEED processor, but a brand new 91 000 points measuring sensor. At this level, it's a real small image taker able to determine precisely the type of scene and location of the subject. The Nikon D4 is the first device capable of performing face recognition without using the main sensor, and thus reflex. We tested this successfully. An effort was also made on the reactivity of the AF contrast detection. The video feature lovers will also benefit – Nikon has clearly put their efforts in video in an attempt to gain the field largely monopolized by others.

Rival in size

Announced last November, but out in March, the new pro SLR Canon EOS-1DX will be the only rival for the D4. On paper it looks better (18 MP sensor, 61 AF points, maximum default sensitivity up to ISO 51200, 0.78x viewfinder, FPS of 12 to 14 frames / second ...), but it is known that the duel of the titans will be played on the ground according to their ability to capture the right image! The price of the Canon, still unknown at the time we loop...

See you next month for a full test!

P.S. Few sentences were removed, because they were meaningless after translation. Also I've rephrased some of those that were left to make them easy to read. Don't blame me for my poor English

 

[KeithR]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

The unit will go up to 11 frames / second at full resolution, but without focusing after the first shot

This again? Still no AF at high frame rates?

I wonder if the F/8 AF will make Canon have another look at the 1DX...

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

The unit will go up to 11 frames / second at full resolution, but without focusing after the first shot

This again? Still no AF at high frame rates?

But...

The ISO range is limited by default to ensure a relatively quick process in burst that is announced to be 10 frames / second (instead of 9 frames / second of the D3s).

I'd interpret that to mean the D4 would shoot:

• 10 fps with AF between frames (compared to 12 fps for the 1D X)
• 11 fps with mirror lockup (compared to 14 fps for the 1D X)
• 12 fps in DX mode with the mirror locked up (no crop mode on 1D X)

 

[handsomerob]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

I'd interpret that to mean the D4 would shoot:

• 10 fps with AF between frames (compared to 12 fps for the 1D X)
• 11 fps with mirror lockup (compared to 14 fps for the 1D X)
• 12 fps in DX mode with the mirror locked up (no crop mode on 1D X)

Yeah basically.

Lets see how well the buffer will do with more frames/sec and higher pixel count (compared to the D3s). They will probably charge people $500 again for a buffer upgrade

 

[TexPhoto]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

The "Wells Fargo Advisor" site was a Phishing scam, hosted on a site that has no connection to Wells Fargo.

The new info is coming from a French Magazine that has almost no web presence, and no information about the origin of these images. According to EXIF data, the image was last edited by a guy who calls himself Dark Wolf: http://avaxhome.ws/blogs/dark_wolf/pages/2 Clicking on Dark_Wolf's links takes you to a scam pay for clicks page.

There is little doubt there is a D4 coming, but I don't think there is any believable information here.

 

[nazdar]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

"Contrast detect AF in movie recording"
Yesssss, ..... but how good it will be?

 

[dr croubie]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

Anybody can read French?

http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p6.jpg
http://photo-cult.com/tests/ReponsesPhoto239-p7.jpg

First page, you can get the specs from the Fiche Technique section, 16MP, 51pt AF, 100% 0.7x prism, 100-12k native, 50-200k expanded iso, XQD slot, etc.

The sentences that stick out most for me (i'm too lazy to translate the whole article):
The high-megapixel D3X is staying in the line-up, and eventually will be replaced by the D4X (well, duh).
The D4 is being made for sensitivity and speed, only 16mp is the price you pay for the high-iso/fps (well duh).
Even amateur cameras go past 20MP these days, but this camera is aimed for people who were already comfortable with 12MP, photogs and journalists.
Smaller MP means larger photosites, so you get ISO up to 200k. And it's gone up to 20fps from 9fps in the D3s. (1D mk4 competitor!)

Second Page:
It takes 11fps 'en pleine definition' (I presume that just means JPEG-only?) but with no auto-exposure or autofocus after the first shot, and takes 12fps in 8MP DX-crop (which by my calculations, 16MP/(1.5^2)=7.1MP DX-crop).
Shutter/mirror is rated at 400k (so, 11 hours of total burst then?)
They've reused the multicam3500FX autofocus from the D3, to use in groups of 11 in dynamique mode to track the subject.
Nikon have tweaked the sensitivity of the autofocus points to favour using teleconverters (take that, Canon! ?)
They've added in a new 91k-pixel rgb-metering for scene-detection and metering.
We have tested this with good success (ie, they've had their hands on one, they say.
They've added in things 'that videophiles want': contrast-based autofocus for video, and support fullHD .mov and H.264, frame-rate choices, with key new features: entre lignee (does this mean line-skipping or something else? my french isn't bad but my video-knowledge is almost nil), headphone jack with VU meter, hdmi output 'brute de decoffrage' (i think this means uncompressed?) for direct transmission, fade to black).
They've change the ergonomics and made it 45g lighter (how much does extra weight do you get by using an extra CF card though?), more comfortable in portrait, bigger screen.
More features, ethernet (with no mention of gigabit, if they had gigabit they'd make a point of saying it, I'm calling 100Mbps), wifi-transmitter, xqd and cf slots, blah blah.

And in the black box, 1DX specs we already know ("which on paper, looks better").

 

[jrista]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

I've used translator to grasp the meaning of the article above, here's what it gave me:

...
Reasonable resolution

The D4 replaces D3s of 2009 that was an evolution of the D3 released in 2007. The version of "rich-pixel" D3x, which appeared in 2009, is currently in the queue, waiting for possible "D4x". Rather than the image resolution, the main aim of D4 is sensitivity and speed. The new FX-format sensor (24x36 mm) that adopted 16 MP, is far from being unique these days when even amateur models can exceed 20 MP. But it is a figure that makes you more comfortable than 12 MP in D3s, and considered sufficient for reporters. Advantage of the less amount in photosites is that they perform better: the sensitivity is from ISO 100 to ISO 12800 and goes up to 204 800 ISO in extended mode! The ISO range is limited by default to ensure a relatively quick process in burst that is announced to be 10 frames / second (instead of 9 frames / second of the D3s).
...

P.S. Few sentences were removed, because they were meaningless after translation. Also I've rephrased some of those that were left to make them easy to read. Don't blame me for my poor English

So, if I understand your translation correctly:

Native ISO 100-12800
Extended 50 + 25600-204800?

So, a total of 5 levels of "extended" ISO levels? I guess that just confuses me even more...whats the value of four levels of extra-crappy high ISO (say, outside of police crime scene work, I guess...)? It would seem more logical to me if the camera was 100-25600, with H1 51200, H2 102k, H3 204k and the final L 50. The information about the D4 just gets more and more confusing...

 

[coltsfreak18]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

DPReview has just posted a couple of articles on the D4. One is an overview of all of the features. For this one, I find it interesting that the D4 can shoot at 1080p in both FX and DX (1.5x crop) mode and has clean HDMI out.
I also am somewhat surprised that it has up to H4 (204800) ISO expansion; that seems unnecessary and only in existence to compete with the 1DX for the spec sheet buyers. Yet, I doubt many purchasers of either camera buys only on spec sheets... Also, the AF system has 15 cross-type f/5.6 points and 9 f/8; yet, it still has no f/2.8 and f/4 points. I am VERY intrigued as to the compromises between speed and accuracy between the 1DX and D4, and which manufacturer's attitude towards AF prevails. Interestingly, the video only has a 24Mbps bitrate, even though it has clean HDMI out.
For the record, the "hands-on preview" is pretty much useless and I'm disappointed to see only 1 CF slot and 1 XQD slot, which no manufacturer makes as of yet. And the pixel size is slightly larger than the 1DX...7.3 micrometers to 6.94 micrometers.

Main article: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/06/NikonD4launched
Hands-on Overview: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/7799914638/nikon-d4-overview/

 

[TexPhoto]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

Well, it's real now: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/01/06/NikonD4launched

 

[coltsfreak18]

Re: Nikon's D4 Outed Officially

I stand corrected on my XQD comment. Naturally, right when I make an opinionated comment, CR announces that Sony has made some XQD cards that are significantly faster than the fastest UDMA 7 CF cards.

Interestingly, with these cards, the article claims that the D4 has a RAW buffer of about 100 frames. Has anybody confirmed what the 1DX's buffer is? IIRC, it's a bit above 100 or so, but that could be completely wrong.

 

[Kahuna]

I am not worthy of owning either the 1DX or the D4 but it would seem by the specs being discussed, the 1DX represents a larger evolutionary advance than the D4 (at this point assuming IQ is a push). Looking forward to review some real life photo comparisons of the two models. Fun reading

 

[Noink Fanb0i]

So it's official, native ISO range is a mere 100-12800, with H1-H4 25600-204800. 1Dx beats it in *ALL* the spec numbers game, including LCD size & resolution (3:2 1.04MP 3.2" LCD vs. 921k LCD) and VF size (0.76x mag. vs. 0.70x). The only unique thing the D4 has is XQD CF card support & f/8 center pt. AF.

 

[smirkypants]

The MSRP price isn't that much higher than the selling price of the 1D4 and it seems quite a bit better. I wonder if Canon will continue making the 1D4 and maybe drop the price a grand or so. I'd love to get a second 1D4 for $3500-$4000.

 

[jrista]

Wow, I'm stunned! I guess I was wrong about the ISO, and there really are FOUR levels of (imo...useless) expansion ISO. Which technically means there is no native ISO improvement over the D3s...??? The AF system doesn't sound that much more impressive than what Nikon had previously, and certainly not as impressive as the Canon 1D X. Frame rate seems lacking vs. the 1D X as well.

That aside, the video features seem pretty competitive...so maybe this is Nikon's big real-world entrance into DSLR video, and is competing on a different level...i.e. not a direct competitor to the 1D X?

 

[waving_odd]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzLTGJuR4CQ

At 2:30, he said "4799 available on Feb 16!!!"

It's like 1.5 months ahead of the sales of 1D X...