Not only Canon Users are hunting for better specs.... ;-) Alpha 7r II dreams

[GaryJ]

At least with Sony there is a reasonable hope that they might deliver. With Canon you have dreams but cold porridge in the morning.

This morning, like every morning, I have a camera system from Canon that very effectively meets my needs.

Enjoy your porridge. +1

 

[Khufu]

Woo! Keep devaluing that lightest-weight, original A7 for me, SONY... I'll be good to grab one around when the 28mm f/2 finally starts shipping so if you can get this announced in the next week or two that'll be just grand, cheers!
Cheap, FF, out-and-about, sharp & fast wide angle lensed (that's probably a word) wee, lightweight camera with EVF, possibly under £1,000?! Yesss please

 

[Neutral]

At least with Sony there is a reasonable hope that they might deliver. With Canon you have dreams but cold porridge in the morning.

This morning, like every morning, I have a camera system from Canon that very effectively meets my needs.

Enjoy your porridge.

Sorry for saying that but trying to prove oneself of being most smart and most clever person on the forum by trying to humiliate other people or even intentionally trying to offence them is not very smart way to get desired result, result is quite opposite. There are plenty of other people who are not less smart or less clever or less educated)))
Trying to making fun of someone who is dreaming about something better is very unfriendly at least.
Did you try to do the same when your wife was telling you that she is dreaming about something better that she has now? Would be interesting to see results)))

No doubt that your SYSTEM make you happy every morning when you wake up and start thinking about it))) Especially considering how much $$$$$$ was invested in your SYSTEM.
Also no doubt that it is the BEST SYSTEM to meet your current photography needs.
But there is also no doubt that there are many people around whose habits, needs and dreams are different from yours and your SYSTEM not necessarily the best system for them.

Also your sarcastic “joke” has internal contradiction:
Person was telling that it is a bit boring to see very slow Canon progress in sensor technology and it is practically the same as eating the same thing (porridge) every morning for many years (no change).
Your response is that your Canon system is the best and you suggest other person to go and continue to enjoy his porridge every morning for many more years.
If translated from your sarcasm language dialect this means – please go away and enjoy his canon gear while person already told that it is a bit boring for him to see very little progress in Canon sensor technology.

As for SYSTEM in general then every system consist of different system parts, these parts could be different and even could be from different manufactures if final result could be better.
System configuration – combination of different system parts could vary depending on the needs that also could change from time to time.
Canon lenses are very good, and zoom and long zoom lenses are probably the best ones.
But what about primes? This is not always true – e.g. Zeiss makes some better primes (e.g. Otus line or 55mm f/1.8 for Sony E-mount considered as mini-Otus). Other brands also have some prime lenses that are better than Canon primes.

What about autofocus?
Yes Canon has one of the best autofocus systems - especially when 1DX is combined with latest mark 2 autofocus lenses and especially with long telephoto and long primes.
Do all people require best autofocus? Not really.
Do all people need autofocus all the time? Not at all. Many people prefer manual focus lenses. Using focus peaking with combination with EVF or live view with manual focus aids makes manual focus extremely easy to use. Here Canon is even trying to hold up their users not allowing Canon Pro and Semi-pro cameras to have manual focus assist features. Very sad for Canon. Totally irrational.

Do all the Canon lenses are better suited for Canon then for other camera brands?
Not at all, e.g. Canon TSE manual focus lenses are much easier to use on Sony A7 bodies with Canon to Sony E-Mount adapter.
Daylight still image quality using some Canon lenses (TSE and EF24-70 f/2.8 USM II) on Sony A7R body is better than image quality using existing Canon bodies. Sony A7R with Canon EF24-70 f/2.8 USM II lens is my best daylight walk around system for still photography, better for me than 1Dx with the same lens.

Camera body ergonomics?
Canon 1DX is probably one of the best in this respect for many people for many photographic needs. For some of them this is not true – some people prefer compact FF MILS from Sony due to small size and ability to work as digital back for huge variety of different lenses from almost every manufacture, including medium format lenses and legacy lenses.

Camera sensor quality?
Sensor quality is essential part of the system. And this is where Canon is lagging behind competitors and the technology gap is increasing as Canon itself is not Semiconductor Company and do not have required resources to keep in pace with semiconductors technologies evolution.
Some time ago Canon 1DX was one of the best camera for low light conditions.
This is not true anymore.
Now one of the best FF low light cameras is Sony A7S initially intended for high quality video requirements. It is now rapidly becoming more and more popular for low light still photography using number of fast prime lenses from different manufactures.
Also for night sky photography.
As result A7S sales are far above initial Sony expectations .This camera is becoming famous. It can see almost in full darkness. I am no exclusion to this, A7S is my mostly used camera for low light conditions and 1DX is used only for special needs (actions/sports, events).
When new Zeiss prime 35mm f/1.4 will become available then this would give a lot of amazing possibilities for using it with A7S, A7M2 with IBIS and especially sometime later with A7Sm2 with better sensor and IBIS not to mention A7Rm2.

Summary:
Claiming that this or that system from only one brand is the only one best system is pointless.
All depends on each individual person needs which are different.
I myself prefer concept of system toolbox which has all best parts and gears for my needs and this parts could be from different brands. Having such toolbox it is easy to have flexibility in getting best system for particular needs using the best parts combinations.

Also it is very common mistake to underestimate something which is relatively young, still growing, evolving, maturing but evolution curve acceleration is very fast and faster than the same for others. This is applicable to earth live systems, technologies, people etc. There lot of different sad examples in the history for such overlooks.

Sony is only now starting coming more close to gaining critical mass in building their own system (E-mount bodies and lens systems) and we will see soon some more interesting things from Sony (e.g. expected soon A9 which possibly will be around 50mx and latest sensor technology implemented as well as significant AF improvements).
I think that in few years when their system will grow up and mature they will be able reach their ambitious goal – to eat significant part from DSLR market including Canon share on this market.

All the best.

 

[Sunnystate]

It is interesting that self proclaimed tzar of this forum with all his credentials has the need to prove his superiority in every word he is writing down. Just show us already all your diplomas and IQ score and be done with it for once... well he probably would like to show us his banks accounts to... ;D

At least with Sony there is a reasonable hope that they might deliver. With Canon you have dreams but cold porridge in the morning.

This morning, like every morning, I have a camera system from Canon that very effectively meets my needs.

Enjoy your porridge.

Sorry for saying that but trying to prove oneself of being most smart and most clever person on the forum by trying to humiliate other people or even intentionally trying to offence them is not very smart way to get desired result, result is quite opposite. There are plenty of other people who are not less smart or less clever or less educated)))
Trying to making fun of someone who is dreaming about something better is very unfriendly at least.
Did you try to do the same when your wife was telling you that she is dreaming about something better that she has now? Would be interesting to see results)))

No doubt that your SYSTEM make you happy every morning when you wake up and start thinking about it))) Especially considering how much $$$$$$ was invested in your SYSTEM.
Also no doubt that it is the BEST SYSTEM to meet your current photography needs.
But there is also no doubt that there are many people around whose habits, needs and dreams are different from yours and your SYSTEM not necessarily the best system for them.

Also your sarcastic “joke” has internal contradiction:
Person was telling that it is a bit boring to see very slow Canon progress in sensor technology and it is practically the same as eating the same thing (porridge) every morning for many years (no change).
Your response is that your Canon system is the best and you suggest other person to go and continue to enjoy his porridge every morning for many more years.
If translated from your sarcasm language dialect this means – please go away and enjoy his canon gear while person already told that it is a bit boring for him to see very little progress in Canon sensor technology.

As for SYSTEM in general then every system consist of different system parts, these parts could be different and even could be from different manufactures if final result could be better.
System configuration – combination of different system parts could vary depending on the needs that also could change from time to time.
Canon lenses are very good, and zoom and long zoom lenses are probably the best ones.
But what about primes? This is not always true – e.g. Zeiss makes some better primes (e.g. Otus line or 55mm f/1.8 for Sony E-mount considered as mini-Otus). Other brands also have some prime lenses that are better than Canon primes.

What about autofocus?
Yes Canon has one of the best autofocus systems - especially when 1DX is combined with latest mark 2 autofocus lenses and especially with long telephoto and long primes.
Do all people require best autofocus? Not really.
Do all people need autofocus all the time? Not at all. Many people prefer manual focus lenses. Using focus peaking with combination with EVF or live view with manual focus aids makes manual focus extremely easy to use. Here Canon is even trying to hold up their users not allowing Canon Pro and Semi-pro cameras to have manual focus assist features. Very sad for Canon. Totally irrational.

Do all the Canon lenses are better suited for Canon then for other camera brands?
Not at all, e.g. Canon TSE manual focus lenses are much easier to use on Sony A7 bodies with Canon to Sony E-Mount adapter.
Daylight still image quality using some Canon lenses (TSE and EF24-70 f/2.8 USM II) on Sony A7R body is better than image quality using existing Canon bodies. Sony A7R with Canon EF24-70 f/2.8 USM II lens is my best daylight walk around system for still photography, better for me than 1Dx with the same lens.

Camera body ergonomics?
Canon 1DX is probably one of the best in this respect for many people for many photographic needs. For some of them this is not true – some people prefer compact FF MILS from Sony due to small size and ability to work as digital back for huge variety of different lenses from almost every manufacture, including medium format lenses and legacy lenses.

Camera sensor quality?
Sensor quality is essential part of the system. And this is where Canon is lagging behind competitors and the technology gap is increasing as Canon itself is not Semiconductor Company and do not have required resources to keep in pace with semiconductors technologies evolution.
Some time ago Canon 1DX was one of the best camera for low light conditions.
This is not true anymore.
Now one of the best FF low light cameras is Sony A7S initially intended for high quality video requirements. It is now rapidly becoming more and more popular for low light still photography using number of fast prime lenses from different manufactures.
Also for night sky photography.
As result A7S sales are far above initial Sony expectations .This camera is becoming famous. It can see almost in full darkness. I am no exclusion to this, A7S is my mostly used camera for low light conditions and 1DX is used only for special needs (actions/sports, events).
When new Zeiss prime 35mm f/1.4 will become available then this would give a lot of amazing possibilities for using it with A7S, A7M2 with IBIS and especially sometime later with A7Sm2 with better sensor and IBIS not to mention A7Rm2.

Summary:
Claiming that this or that system from only one brand is the only one best system is pointless.
All depends on each individual person needs which are different.
I myself prefer concept of system toolbox which has all best parts and gears for my needs and this parts could be from different brands. Having such toolbox it is easy to have flexibility in getting best system for particular needs using the best parts combinations.

Also it is very common mistake to underestimate something which is relatively young, still growing, evolving, maturing but evolution curve acceleration is very fast and faster than the same for others. This is applicable to earth live systems, technologies, people etc. There lot of different sad examples in the history for such overlooks.

Sony is only now starting coming more close to gaining critical mass in building their own system (E-mount bodies and lens systems) and we will see soon some more interesting things from Sony (e.g. expected soon A9 which possibly will be around 50mx and latest sensor technology implemented as well as significant AF improvements).
I think that in few years when their system will grow up and mature they will be able reach their ambitious goal – to eat significant part from DSLR market including Canon share on this market.

All the best.

 

[xps]

Post from Sonyalpharumors.com:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-a-correction-and-a-confirmation-about-the-sony-50mp-camera/

I am very busy working on a whole bunch of rumors but let’s start with an important rumor correction. The highly trusted source who shared as first the 50MP camera rumor said that he misunderstood the release timing info he got directly from Sony. The 50MP camera is not going to be announced the next few weeks. But it’s definitely ready to be for sale within 2015. He said sorry to SAR readers for the wrong timing info but there was a miscommunication between Sony and him. The good news is that another source confirmed the camera will come this year and that indeed the Sony 50MP FF sensor has a very new design and will “easily” outperform the Canon 5ds sensor.

 

[LonelyBoy]

At least with Sony there is a reasonable hope that they might deliver. With Canon you have dreams but cold porridge in the morning.

Bah. I've never seen a company meet or exceed the rumor mill. Sony won't "deliver" on everything in this rumor.

 

[Loswr]

It is interesting that self proclaimed tzar of this forum with all his credentials has the need to prove his superiority in every word he is writing down. Just show us already all your diplomas and IQ score and be done with it for once... well he probably would like to show us his banks accounts to... ;D

At least with Sony there is a reasonable hope that they might deliver. With Canon you have dreams but cold porridge in the morning.

This morning, like every morning, I have a camera system from Canon that very effectively meets my needs.

Enjoy your porridge.

Sorry for saying that but trying to prove oneself of being most smart and most clever person on the forum by trying to humiliate other people or even intentionally trying to offence them is not very smart way to get desired result, result is quite opposite. There are plenty of other people who are not less smart or less clever or less educated)))
Trying to making fun of someone who is dreaming about something better is very unfriendly at least.
Did you try to do the same when your wife was telling you that she is dreaming about something better that she has now? Would be interesting to see results)))

No doubt that your SYSTEM make you happy every morning when you wake up and start thinking about it))) Especially considering how much $$$$$$ was invested in your SYSTEM.
Also no doubt that it is the BEST SYSTEM to meet your current photography needs.
But there is also no doubt that there are many people around whose habits, needs and dreams are different from yours and your SYSTEM not necessarily the best system for them.

Also your sarcastic “joke” has internal contradiction:
Person was telling that it is a bit boring to see very slow Canon progress in sensor technology and it is practically the same as eating the same thing (porridge) every morning for many years (no change).
Your response is that your Canon system is the best and you suggest other person to go and continue to enjoy his porridge every morning for many more years.
If translated from your sarcasm language dialect this means – please go away and enjoy his canon gear while person already told that it is a bit boring for him to see very little progress in Canon sensor technology.

As for SYSTEM in general then every system consist of different system parts, these parts could be different and even could be from different manufactures if final result could be better.
System configuration – combination of different system parts could vary depending on the needs that also could change from time to time.
Canon lenses are very good, and zoom and long zoom lenses are probably the best ones.
But what about primes? This is not always true – e.g. Zeiss makes some better primes (e.g. Otus line or 55mm f/1.8 for Sony E-mount considered as mini-Otus). Other brands also have some prime lenses that are better than Canon primes.

What about autofocus?
Yes Canon has one of the best autofocus systems - especially when 1DX is combined with latest mark 2 autofocus lenses and especially with long telephoto and long primes.
Do all people require best autofocus? Not really.
Do all people need autofocus all the time? Not at all. Many people prefer manual focus lenses. Using focus peaking with combination with EVF or live view with manual focus aids makes manual focus extremely easy to use. Here Canon is even trying to hold up their users not allowing Canon Pro and Semi-pro cameras to have manual focus assist features. Very sad for Canon. Totally irrational.

Do all the Canon lenses are better suited for Canon then for other camera brands?
Not at all, e.g. Canon TSE manual focus lenses are much easier to use on Sony A7 bodies with Canon to Sony E-Mount adapter.
Daylight still image quality using some Canon lenses (TSE and EF24-70 f/2.8 USM II) on Sony A7R body is better than image quality using existing Canon bodies. Sony A7R with Canon EF24-70 f/2.8 USM II lens is my best daylight walk around system for still photography, better for me than 1Dx with the same lens.

Camera body ergonomics?
Canon 1DX is probably one of the best in this respect for many people for many photographic needs. For some of them this is not true – some people prefer compact FF MILS from Sony due to small size and ability to work as digital back for huge variety of different lenses from almost every manufacture, including medium format lenses and legacy lenses.

Camera sensor quality?
Sensor quality is essential part of the system. And this is where Canon is lagging behind competitors and the technology gap is increasing as Canon itself is not Semiconductor Company and do not have required resources to keep in pace with semiconductors technologies evolution.
Some time ago Canon 1DX was one of the best camera for low light conditions.
This is not true anymore.
Now one of the best FF low light cameras is Sony A7S initially intended for high quality video requirements. It is now rapidly becoming more and more popular for low light still photography using number of fast prime lenses from different manufactures.
Also for night sky photography.
As result A7S sales are far above initial Sony expectations .This camera is becoming famous. It can see almost in full darkness. I am no exclusion to this, A7S is my mostly used camera for low light conditions and 1DX is used only for special needs (actions/sports, events).
When new Zeiss prime 35mm f/1.4 will become available then this would give a lot of amazing possibilities for using it with A7S, A7M2 with IBIS and especially sometime later with A7Sm2 with better sensor and IBIS not to mention A7Rm2.

Summary:
Claiming that this or that system from only one brand is the only one best system is pointless.
All depends on each individual person needs which are different.
I myself prefer concept of system toolbox which has all best parts and gears for my needs and this parts could be from different brands. Having such toolbox it is easy to have flexibility in getting best system for particular needs using the best parts combinations.

Also it is very common mistake to underestimate something which is relatively young, still growing, evolving, maturing but evolution curve acceleration is very fast and faster than the same for others. This is applicable to earth live systems, technologies, people etc. There lot of different sad examples in the history for such overlooks.

Sony is only now starting coming more close to gaining critical mass in building their own system (E-mount bodies and lens systems) and we will see soon some more interesting things from Sony (e.g. expected soon A9 which possibly will be around 50mx and latest sensor technology implemented as well as significant AF improvements).
I think that in few years when their system will grow up and mature they will be able reach their ambitious goal – to eat significant part from DSLR market including Canon share on this market.

All the best.

What I stated is that the camera system I have meets my needs. My needs. Not yours, not Bob's, not Susan's. If you want to read more into it than that, that's your problem. Have a nice day.

 

[NancyP]

To Neutral: nr; tl

To everyone else: Choice is good. I would really like to have a body with better dynamic range sensor in the 30+ MP range plus a shutter without shutter vibration, specifically for landscape. If Sony fixes its shutter issue with the A7r successor (and global shutter does do that), then I would consider it as an option. I would have considered the existing A7r as a supplemental body if it didn't have the shutter issue.

Meanwhile I enjoy my 6D, which does fine for the A3 size prints I am likely to make at this time (in a small flat).

My kit is better than I am.

 

[Eldar]

The points from Neutral are good points. I find it absolutely amazing and difficult to understand, how anyone can defend someone for NOT doing anything and claim that everyone being unhappy with Canon´s (apparent) roadmap are incompetent extremes. I my eyes you look stupid!

Every time anyone criticise Canon´s lack of will or ability to deliver sensor performance to compete with the (as of lately) others, a fair number of CR members rush to their defence stating that those who want what the Sony, Nikon, Pentax, Phase One, Hasselblad, Leica ... (you name them) can get from their sensors, does´t know what they´re talking about. The bashing of jrista´s fairly educated posts are good examples.

The only way we can make a difference is if we as a joint force push Canon to come up with what we want. I, for one, was so disappointed with the 5DS/5DSR specs, that I have decided not to buy that camera and I will not buy the 11-24mm either, even though it is a very tempting lens. And I will not buy the new 100-400mm and I may not buy another Canon lens again, unless I can get sensor performance that match what the others have. I have stopped recommending Canon to those who come for advice. A drop in Canon´s ocean, but maybe I´m not the only drop. I have a negotiated price for a Pentax 645z package, but I hesitate, because I do not wish to drag two systems around. But if the 1DX-II does not meet my expectations, I will sell every bit of Canon gear I have and start all over with something else.

And, for the record, if anyone is tempted to tell me I don´t know what I´m doing and I don´t know how to use what I have ... Sxxx you!

 

[RLPhoto]

The points from Neutral are good points. I find it absolutely amazing and difficult to understand, how anyone can defend someone for NOT doing anything and claim that everyone being unhappy with Canon´s (apparent) roadmap are incompetent extremes. I my eyes you look stupid!

Every time anyone criticise Canon´s lack of will or ability to deliver sensor performance to compete with the (as of lately) others, a fair number of CR members rush to their defence stating that those who want what the Sony, Nikon, Pentax, Phase One, Hasselblad, Leica ... (you name them) can get from their sensors, does´t know what they´re talking about. The bashing of jrista´s fairly educated posts are good examples.

The only way we can make a difference is if we as a joint force push Canon to come up with what we want. I, for one, was so disappointed with the 5DS/5DSR specs, that I have decided not to buy that camera and I will not buy the 11-24mm either, even though it is a very tempting lens. And I will not buy the new 100-400mm and I may not buy another Canon lens again, unless I can get sensor performance that match what the others have. I have stopped recommending Canon to those who come for advice. A drop in Canon´s ocean, but maybe I´m not the only drop. I have a negotiated price for a Pentax 645z package, but I hesitate, because I do not wish to drag two systems around. But if the 1DX-II does not meet my expectations, I will sell every bit of Canon gear I have and start all over with something else.

And, for the record, if anyone is tempted to tell me I don´t know what I´m doing and I don´t know how to use what I have ... Sxxx you!

If Sony does make a global shutter that allows crazy sync speeds, I'd probably sell my hassy. I could use all my canon glass, gain the one advantage that pushed me to MF, plus IBIS and 50mp? I'd wait on that 645z just a bit longer as the A7Rii could be very interesting.

 

[Loswr]

I find it absolutely amazing and difficult to understand, how anyone can defend someone for NOT doing anything and claim that everyone being unhappy with Canon´s (apparent) roadmap are incompetent extremes.

Sorry, but you're completely missing (or else misrepresenting) the point. Who is defending Canon for "NOT doing anything" here? It seems to me that the only people accusing Canon of not doing anything are those unhappy that Canon is not doing the ONE thing that THEY want, namely delivering more low ISO DR (or shadow lifting latitude, if you prefer). Not doing anything? Who else makes a 50 MP FF dSLR with a very comprehensive complement of compatible lenses? Who has a FF rectilinear zoom starting at 11mm, by which you are tempted? I could go on, but you're equally familiar with the lineup. It's manifestly evident that Canon is doing SOMEthing, and equally obvious that they cannot do EVERYthing, particularly given the overall state of the dSLR market.

The only way we can make a difference is if we as a joint force push Canon to come up with what we want

What is it that 'we' want? That can only be a viable strategy if a 'we' with the same want represents a big enough fraction of Canon's user base (current and potential). As I've pointed out before, Canon has been behind in low ISO DR for ~6 years, meaning multiple product development cycles. If their market research showed that particular feature to be something likely to have a significant impact on sales (i.e., a positive ROI), why would they not have addressed it? I'd argue that's because the 'we' to which you refer, in the case of those wanting more low ISO DR, simply doesn't represent a big enough group. Obviously, the 'we' wanting more MP was sufficiently numerous for Canon to devote R&D resources to address their want, and thus they delivered the world's highest resolution FF dSLR.

 

[Sporgon]

The only way we can make a difference is if we as a joint force push Canon to come up with what we want. I, for one, was so disappointed with the 5DS/5DSR specs, that I have decided not to buy that camera and I will not buy the 11-24mm either, even though it is a very tempting lens. And I will not buy the new 100-400mm and I may not buy another Canon lens again, unless I can get sensor performance that match what the others have. I have stopped recommending Canon to those who come for advice. A drop in Canon´s ocean, but maybe I´m not the only drop. I have a negotiated price for a Pentax 645z package, but I hesitate, because I do not wish to drag two systems around. But if the 1DX-II does not meet my expectations, I will sell every bit of Canon gear I have and start all over with something else.

Wait till the Pentax FF is announced at the end of this year Actually in all seriousness I think that if you're so disappointed with the 5Ds specs you'd be even more so with the Pentax FF.

I'm surprised that you're adopting such an intransigent position on the 5Ds. Like yourself I'm disappointed that this camera doesn't use an interchangeable screen, but then I'm prepared to be more phylosophical over it; how many landscape photographers want ultra shallow depth of field, and for studio work you have an excellent AF system that acts as a focus confirmation with manual lenses. And then of course there is always live view.

I'm really perplexed as to what more a camera generating such huge file sizes should be expected to do that isn't already satisfying the vast majority of potential customers, apart from the dreaded DR, which as sales ( of other models) suggests it's not a big issue for most. I've seen some of the excellent images you've posted on CR and I fail to see where you yourself have been compromised by lack of EV range or noise etc.

I don't know if you ever used film MF, but my advice is to be cautious; even in the film days when MF offered highly significant IQ improvements over 35mm the inflexibility of the cameras meant that they inevitably gave way the 35 mil much of the time, and of course in this digital age you're actually pushed to see the difference in normal output size, likely as not.

 

[privatebydesign]

The only way we can make a difference is if we as a joint force push Canon to come up with what we want. I, for one, was so disappointed with the 5DS/5DSR specs, that I have decided not to buy that camera and I will not buy the 11-24mm either, even though it is a very tempting lens. And I will not buy the new 100-400mm and I may not buy another Canon lens again, unless I can get sensor performance that match what the others have. I have stopped recommending Canon to those who come for advice. A drop in Canon´s ocean, but maybe I´m not the only drop. I have a negotiated price for a Pentax 645z package, but I hesitate, because I do not wish to drag two systems around. But if the 1DX-II does not meet my expectations, I will sell every bit of Canon gear I have and start all over with something else.

Wait till the Pentax FF is announced at the end of this year Actually in all seriousness I think that if you're so disappointed with the 5Ds specs you'd be even more so with the Pentax FF.

I'm surprised that you're adopting such an intransigent position on the 5Ds. Like yourself I'm disappointed that this camera doesn't use an interchangeable screen, but then I'm prepared to be more phylosophical over it; how many landscape photographers want ultra shallow depth of field, and for studio work you have an excellent AF system that acts as a focus confirmation with manual lenses. And then of course there is always live view.

I'm really perplexed as to what more a camera generating such huge file sizes should be expected to do that isn't already satisfying the vast majority of potential customers, apart from the dreaded DR, which as sales ( of other models) suggests it's not a big issue for most. I've seen some of the excellent images you've posted on CR and I fail to see where you yourself have been compromised by lack of EV range or noise etc.

I don't know if you ever used film MF, but my advice is to be cautious; even in the film days when MF offered highly significant IQ improvements over 35mm the inflexibility of the cameras meant that they inevitably gave way the 35 mil much of the time, and of course in this digital age you're actually pushed to see the difference in normal output size, likely as not.

Oh, that made me think of Galen Rowell.

 

[Eldar]

We all have choices. One choice could be to stay with what we have and just learn how to get maximum performance from that (and close Canon Rumors in the process). The other is to always try to push the envelope. I agree Sporgon, I do produce some images now and then, which I am happy with. But, unfortunately, I´m a very competitive person. Within photography I primarily compete with myself though. I strive to see if I can push the quality of what I make just a little further. When my friend, with the D810 and the same Zeiss lineup as I have, and I go on a hike together and shoot pretty much the same stuff and we review our images afterwards. It becomes very simple. I want the same low ISO performance from my sensor as he gets from his.

It may be that I am too harsh on the 5DS/5DSR, since I have not tried it myself and not even seen a proper review yet. But so far it seems I am getting lots of resolution and the rest is more or less same same. Resolution was fifth on my priority list. Canon did what they could, which is to produce a larger sensor within an old proven technology. If they had been able to produce a D810 basher, I´m sure they would. They have made a major PR jippo out of being first past 50MP and I am sure they´ll succeed. But I, being just a drop in the ocean, am not onboard.

And neuro, I don´t believe for a second that you would disapprove of having more DR and improved noise performance. We all want improvements, That is the WE that should be vocal and tell Canon to fix it for us.

 

[NancyP]

What! 5Dsx cameras don't have interchangeable screens? To me that is a no-brainer on any full frame DSLR. The lowly 6D has interchangeable screens, which is good, because I like to use fast MF lenses.

 

[Loswr]

What! 5Dsx cameras don't have interchangeable screens? To me that is a no-brainer on any full frame DSLR. The lowly 6D has interchangeable screens, which is good, because I like to use fast MF lenses.

Is that why nobody bought the 5DIII?

 

[quod]

Sorry, but you're completely missing (or else misrepresenting) the point. Who is defending Canon for "NOT doing anything" here?... Not doing anything? Who else makes a 50 MP FF dSLR with a very comprehensive complement of compatible lenses?... It's manifestly evident that Canon is doing SOMEthing, and equally obvious that they cannot do EVERYthing, particularly given the overall state of the dSLR market.

Since you are being your usual argumentative self, let's cut through your parsing of other people's words, shall we? If it isn't evident, YOU are defending Canon for "NOT doing anything" in the minds of some on this forum, myself included, regarding sensor performance. How do you defend Canon with your usual rigorous fanaticism? You point out that Canon delivers a 50 MP FF dSLR with a "very comprehensive complement of compatible lenses." Although Canon is the only company that has announced a 50 MP FF sensor so far, there is also a credible rumor that Sony will deliver a 50 MP FF sensor, and if the past is any indication of the future, Sony's sensor will be superior to Canon's in ways that matter to many people on this forum, perhaps with the exception of you. Such rarified air that you breathe! Ah, yes, but then there is the plethora of lenses. In your argumentation, you failed to mention Canon's "very comprehensive complement of native compatible lenses." Well, just in case you haven't heard, you can shoot Canon lenses, Nikon lenses, Leica lenses, and other lenses on Sony's mirrorless FF cameras. It is "manifestly evident" to many, including myself, that "Canon is doing SOMEthing" not to our liking. It is "equally obvious that they cannot do EVERYthing" such as develop a sensor that competes with Sony in ways that matter to some of us, but CLEARLY not you. :

As I've pointed out before, Canon has been behind in low ISO DR for ~6 years, meaning multiple product development cycles.

And we are so dearly grateful for your sacrifice! You are in the medical field and you are an expert on sensor development. You have such a bevy of skills!

If their market research showed that particular feature to be something likely to have a significant impact on sales (i.e., a positive ROI), why would they not have addressed it?

You are being argumentative, yet again, and now you are opining on product marketing. It's amazing the skills that you feel that you have developed in your photography pursuits! The flipside to that argument is why have other companies delivered on dynamic range in their sensor development? Since you are the product marketing genius, perhaps you can inspire us with your dazzling intellect on the matter.

I'd argue that's because the 'we' to which you refer, in the case of those wanting more low ISO DR, simply doesn't represent a big enough group. Obviously, the 'we' wanting more MP was sufficiently numerous for Canon to devote R&D resources to address their want, and thus they delivered the world's highest resolution FF dSLR.

Well, the Sony rumor also includes the boast that the Sony sensor will be much better than Canon's 50 MP FF sensor. Presumably they are relying on the 7D2 performance to assert such a claim. If they deliver on the claim, obviously "the 'we' wanting more MP [and DR] was sufficiently numerous for [Sony] to devote R&D resources to address their want, and thus they delivered the world's highest resolution FF dSLR [with spectacular DR]." I could not have said it better! :

 

[Loswr]

It is "equally obvious that they cannot do EVERYthing" such as develop a sensor that competes with Sony in ways that matter to some of us, but CLEARLY not you.

Where is your evidence that Canon cannot develop a sensor with relatively greater low ISO DR? I trust you realize that cannot and chooses not to are two very different things.

The flipside to that argument is why have other companies delivered on dynamic range in their sensor development?

Have those other companies surpassed Canon in dSLR market share? If not, how important has 'delivering on DR' been to them?

Well, the Sony rumor also includes the boast that the Sony sensor will be much better than Canon's 50 MP FF sensor.

Where are the samples from the preproduction camera? What's the release date? Do you often boast about images you have captured with a rumor? :

 

[sanj]

It is "equally obvious that they cannot do EVERYthing" such as develop a sensor that competes with Sony in ways that matter to some of us, but CLEARLY not you.

Where is your evidence that Canon cannot develop a sensor with relatively greater low ISO DR? I trust you realize that cannot and chooses not to are two very different things.

The flipside to that argument is why have other companies delivered on dynamic range in their sensor development?

Have those other companies surpassed Canon in dSLR market share? If not, how important has 'delivering on DR' been to them?

Well, the Sony rumor also includes the boast that the Sony sensor will be much better than Canon's 50 MP FF sensor.

Where are the samples from the preproduction camera? What's the release date? Do you often boast about images you have captured with a rumor? :

You seriously think that them improving technology for betterment of photography and ease of photography is a bad thing? Is it all only about sales for you? I find this mentality so regressive.

 

[privatebydesign]

It is "equally obvious that they cannot do EVERYthing" such as develop a sensor that competes with Sony in ways that matter to some of us, but CLEARLY not you.

Where is your evidence that Canon cannot develop a sensor with relatively greater low ISO DR? I trust you realize that cannot and chooses not to are two very different things.

The flipside to that argument is why have other companies delivered on dynamic range in their sensor development?

Have those other companies surpassed Canon in dSLR market share? If not, how important has 'delivering on DR' been to them?

Well, the Sony rumor also includes the boast that the Sony sensor will be much better than Canon's 50 MP FF sensor.

Where are the samples from the preproduction camera? What's the release date? Do you often boast about images you have captured with a rumor? :

You seriously think that them improving technology for betterment of photography and ease of photography is a bad thing? Is it all only about sales for you? I find this mentality so regressive.

No, that isn't what he is saying at all. What he is saying is some amongst us consider DR as this massive imperative, Canon clearly don't and they have the market research and sales to confirm they have been better putting that R&D budget into new lenses and a choice of new high MP bodies with the same DR.

The reference to sales is merely conclusive evidence that those that consider DR imperative are in the vast minority. Canon have done the bean counting and they think the cost return is going to be better with the same DR sensors and more MP and a wonderful selection of new lenses across the board in value and capabilities.