OMG! Dpreview reviewed the 5DS/5DSR - Do you have to sell it?

[Jopa]

Found at : http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/12

Silver award. Got just 83%.


Maybe the rumored 5DS(R) update will bring it up to 90% as its competitors.

LOL who give a cr@p about "dpreview"? Why their or somebody else's numbers matter? "83" based on some random-guy-you-don't-know opinion? The 5dsr is an AMAZING camera, one of a kind. Just buy it and try yourself and give it your own score.
As a Sony fanboy I completely ignored the 5dsr release and of course I got the A7r2. Sony promised good AF with the Canon glass since they don't make anything decent except of the 55 f/1.8 and 35 f/2.8. Better if they didn't mention the AF at all in their marketing materials, because I really had high hopes for it, and of course my disappointment was also quite high! The 5dsr has opened my eyes, I never thought the AF could be that good. The sensor is just unbelievable, and paired with some nice Canon glass it delivers outstanding results.
The only downside of the 5dsr compared to the a7r2... you'll be surprised - it's the lens selection again. With Sony you won't spend much on the lenses because there is nothing to buy, seems like Sony cares about your wallet! With Canon I spent $13k last month on the glass... I hate Canon!!!!!!!! Just kidding LOL.

 

[ahsanford]

How often do people here crow about the importance of AF?
So clearly if AF isn't that good, it is something to mention and mark the 5DS down on.

Agree -- if it doesn't perform, report it. I've only seen one head to head between the 5DS and A7R II in servo/tracking AF, and the Canon clearly was superior, as we should expect it to be. Lenses and framerate aren't the only reasons why every sideline has 1DX rigs all over the place -- the AF is top-drawer.

The only shortcoming of a 5DS/R in sports should be throughput -- the framerate and buffer weren't made for leaning on the shutter. But it shouldn't miss any more than my phenomenal 5D3 AF.

- A

 

[bdunbar79]

I think the funniest part was reading the cons - here are the things that I think most people actually care about:

Conclusion - Cons

Raw dynamic range limited compared to peers
Base ISO images can be noisier than the best of the competition
Low light performance limited compared to peers
ISO cap of 12,800 (6400 for Auto ISO) feels arbitrary and limiting

Hmmm, I think I've seen more than a couple of people talk about "why is the 5DS max ISO so low" on here. So yes, DPR is right to critique Canon for the ISO cap of 12800 because plenty of poeple here do too!

Same again with low light, DR, etc.

JPEGs not as sharp or detailed as some competitors
AF subject tracking lags most peers
Mirror and shutter vibrations require workarounds at certain shutter speeds and focal lengths
No spot-metering linked to AF point
Limited video features: no zebra, 1080/60p, flat gamma profile, or peaking options
Slow AF in Live View and video

How often do people here crow about the importance of AF?
So clearly if AF isn't that good, it is something to mention and mark the 5DS down on.
Rinse and repeat with mirror, shutter and how much s*** was heaped on Sony by posters here for problems with the A&R and shot related internal camera vibration?
Fear not, Canon appear to have successfully copied Sony's design flaw.

The assessment of AF in this review is total BS and flat out WRONG. "AF subject tracking lags most peers?" No it doesn't. It tracks just as well or even slightly better than the 1Dx. A7R II still sucks compared with regards to AF and I can only draw the conclusion that those doing the review don't actually own or use the 5Ds, because if they did they wouldn't be saying such foolishness. This is why I don't pay attention to this crap anymore.

 

[ahsanford]

The assessment of AF in this review is total BS and flat out WRONG. "AF subject tracking lags most peers?" No it doesn't. It tracks just as well or even slightly better than the 1Dx. A7R II still sucks compared with regards to AF and I can only draw the conclusion that those doing the review don't actually own or use the 5Ds, because if they did they wouldn't be saying such foolishness. This is why I don't pay attention to this crap anymore.

+1. Reviews of AF systems (body + lens) need to consider:

• Consistency - Grab a properly calibrated wide aperture lens, set it wide open, reset it's focus and nail a constant target a bunch of times. Only* Bryan Carnathan at TDP seems to do this, but it's only when he sees/fears something is off. (...in third party lenses only [cough] )
• Speed - Lens Tip* clocks AF from nearest to infinity, which is better than nothing.
• Servo/tracking - I've never seen a good head to head hit rate sort of test, but I'm sure the sports/wildlife/bif folks have a reference or two.
• Comprehensive number / spread of points - this is where mirrorless can make claims: they fill far more of the field and they have comically high AF point numbers. So it looks great on paper but it may not actually perform.
• [AF obsessives, add your additional metrics here]

* There are random folks doing this as well, but they tend to be one-off exercises you see when something is clearly deficient (i.e. the original EOS-M focusing speed, the 50 Art AF inconsistency, etc)

This is one of the least tested metrics of a system as (a) requiring a consistent lens can confound cross-platform comparison and (b) hit rate comparisons take a fair amount of time to do. But I'd love to see the major review sites consider this in more detail. They obsess about image/video quality in the smallest detail, why not study the AF systems just a bit more?

As a non-action shooter migrating from crop to FF in 2012, I only had the option of a 5D2 / 5D3 at the time. Hearing how iffy the 5D2 could be AF-wise in not sports but 'hurried shooting' had me go overkill to the 5D3 system and it has never let me down other than a poor test rental of a 35 Art (where I believe the lens was the culprit).

- A

 

[Jopa]

The assessment of AF in this review is total BS and flat out WRONG. "AF subject tracking lags most peers?" No it doesn't. It tracks just as well or even slightly better than the 1Dx. A7R II still sucks compared with regards to AF and I can only draw the conclusion that those doing the review don't actually own or use the 5Ds, because if they did they wouldn't be saying such foolishness. This is why I don't pay attention to this crap anymore.

+1
The AF statement is laughable indeed. I'm wondering who's writing those reviews? It's like you ask a butcher to review a cell phone. His first note would be: while the phone is not very tender, I still can cut it with my biggest knife.

 

[Jopa]

• Raw dynamic range limited compared to peers

True, but would you really pull EV over 2 stops?
Base ISO images can be noisier than the best of the competition
Subjective BS.
Low light performance limited compared to peers
The camera has a 50Mpx sensor with tiny photo sites. The idea is to get high resolution, not high ISO. It's the same as a Corvette driver would complain they can't haul a 5 ton trailer.
ISO cap of 12,800 (6400 for Auto ISO) feels arbitrary and limiting
I never saw a usable (by my standards of course) ISO 6400 picture taken by any modern FF camera.
JPEGs not as sharp or detailed as some competitors
Really? Would you buy a $3000+ camera to shoot JPEGs? Then why complain about DR?
AF subject tracking lags most peers
Plain BS. The best BS of 2015, 99%, Platinum DPR BS Award.
Mirror and shutter vibrations require workarounds at certain shutter speeds and focal lengths
And Canon provides those workarounds.
No spot-metering linked to AF point
For real this time. It would be so nice to have it, and I believe it's just a matter of upgrading the firmware. But doubt Canon will do it since they need to sell 1DX
Limited video features: no zebra, 1080/60p, flat gamma profile, or peaking options
It's not a video camera, Canon clearly states that. There is no point of reviewing video, it's like I would complain my car doesn't fly. Well, it's not a helicopter... Buy a C300 if you need video. It's always better to have a specialized high end equipment than an "all-in-one" device. My fridge has a display, but I don't expect it to show 4k movies.
Slow AF in Live View and video
It's a CDAF - what would you expect?

 

[Loswr]

How often do people here crow about the importance of AF?
So clearly if AF isn't that good, it is something to mention and mark the 5DS down on.

The assessment of AF in this review is total BS and flat out WRONG. "AF subject tracking lags most peers?" No it doesn't. It tracks just as well or even slightly better than the 1Dx. A7R II still sucks compared with regards to AF and I can only draw the conclusion that those doing the review don't actually own or use the 5Ds, because if they did they wouldn't be saying such foolishness. This is why I don't pay attention to this crap anymore.

DPR can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. 8)

 

[LDS]

Re: OMG! Dpreview reviewed the 5DS/5DSR - Do I have to sell it?

The fact is that a review is based upon someone's opinion of the particular product. Regarding the pro's and con's, it's up to the buyer to determine what's best for them and if they will allow a product review to influence their decision. Reviews in general are a good thing and the different views on a product can be quite revealing for your own personal goals.

A good reviewer should be able to minimize his or her bias, and above all, should review a product and understand if it fulfill the aims for its target market. DSLR cameras are no longer a "one size fits all" product - we see more and more models specialized for a given market, although they can also work in others. You can't review a 14" lightweight laptop in the same way you review a big heavy server. Both are computers, but very different designs for different tasks and workloads. You have to understand it and tell your readers if they fulfill the needs they've been designed for. I would really don't care if a server has not a stellar video card, for example, nor if laptop memory can't be replaced without turning off the PC.

5Ds and 5DsR for example are not designed to be cinema or sports cameras, and people buying them have other needs. How do well they cover those needs? That is what I'd expect from a good review.

 

[ahsanford]

Re: OMG! Dpreview reviewed the 5DS/5DSR - Do I have to sell it?

5Ds and 5DsR for example are not designed to be cinema or sports cameras, and people buying them have other needs. How do well they cover those needs? That is what I'd expect from a good review.

Agree, but they have a format and are sticking to it. Some photogs want an all-around camera for a thousand different needs. (Those folks probably should have bought a 5D3, but that's besides the point.)

If you are a score person, I think it depends heavily on what you shoot, but riffing on a comparative-based scoring, one might say:

For landscapes: Highest detail for sure, but the DR is a step behind the A7R II or D810.

For portraiture: Awesome detail and color. Best there is short of Medium Format?

For high ISO work: As good as a 5D3 if you downsample. Not as good as some A7 rigs, but it's still formidable.

For reportage, events, etc: the AF is on par (or slightly better?) than the 1DX and 5D3. You could do no better unless you really need AF points tucked in the corners, in which case you need mirrorless / Liveview to do that.

For sports: go get a different camera, silly. The 5DS/R will work, but there are far better options for the same (or less) money.

[For video: I couldn't tell you, I only shoot stills.]

You could go on. It's a fine, fine camera. Whether it's an 87 or a 36 or a Yahtzee is entirely dependent on your budget, needs, etc.

- A

 

[d]

Nothing surprising in DPR's conclusion/ratings etc. regarding Canon's 50MP bodies; you only need to look at their accompanying sample photos to see they're as much gear-heads as they are photographers.

d.

 

[ahsanford]

Nothing surprising in DPR's conclusion/ratings etc. regarding Canon's 50MP bodies; you only need to look at their accompanying sample photos to see they're as much gear-heads as they are photographers.

d.

You don't need to be world class photographer to make a point about where a camera lets you down. The question is would a world class photographer care about those shortcomings or would they just roll their eyes and say "I would never have taken that shot like that", "I'd have waited for better natural light", etc.

That's why we need Bryan Carnathan, Dustin Abbott, this forum's owners of multiple systems, etc. to put these cameras through their paces and compare them to other rigs we know / use today.

- A

 

[AlanF]

How often do people here crow about the importance of AF?
So clearly if AF isn't that good, it is something to mention and mark the 5DS down on.

The assessment of AF in this review is total BS and flat out WRONG. "AF subject tracking lags most peers?" No it doesn't. It tracks just as well or even slightly better than the 1Dx. A7R II still sucks compared with regards to AF and I can only draw the conclusion that those doing the review don't actually own or use the 5Ds, because if they did they wouldn't be saying such foolishness. This is why I don't pay attention to this crap anymore.

DPR can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. 8)

Come on Neuro, you have read enough reviewers reports on your submitted papers to take these in your stride. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VRBWLpYCPY

 

[tomscott]

The difference in ISO is pretty minimal in my eyes. The big difference that eh 5DSR and 5DS have is lack of colour noise the 5DMKIII is infuriating. The new sensor tech is much improved in normal shooting.

The cap I have for my 5DMKIII is 6400 but try to stick to 4000. This is usually in low light events or wedding shooting, from what I have seen it is almost equal with twice the resolution I don't think theres much need to reduce he resolution unless you looking at it constantly at 100%.

It is an excellent camera and imo anyone in the market should buy one over the 5DMKIII.

Its proven itself not only as a great landscape and studio camera but great for wildlife. The only thing its not really geared up to is everyday shooting as I wouldn't want the size of files but you can always bring the resolution down...

No downside really except speed.

 

[xps]

Found at : http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/12

Silver award. Got just 83%.


Maybe the rumored 5DS(R) update will bring it up to 90% as its competitors.

LOL who give a cr@p about "dpreview"? Why their or somebody else's numbers matter? "83" based on some random-guy-you-don't-know opinion? The 5dsr is an AMAZING camera, one of a kind. Just buy it and try yourself and give it your own score.
As a Sony fanboy I completely ignored the 5dsr release and of course I got the A7r2. Sony promised good AF with the Canon glass since they don't make anything decent except of the 55 f/1.8 and 35 f/2.8. Better if they didn't mention the AF at all in their marketing materials, because I really had high hopes for it, and of course my disappointment was also quite high! The 5dsr has opened my eyes, I never thought the AF could be that good. The sensor is just unbelievable, and paired with some nice Canon glass it delivers outstanding results.
The only downside of the 5dsr compared to the a7r2... you'll be surprised - it's the lens selection again. With Sony you won't spend much on the lenses because there is nothing to buy, seems like Sony cares about your wallet! With Canon I spent $13k last month on the glass... I hate Canon!!!!!!!! Just kidding LOL.

Yes, my family member owns just one or two sony lenses. the other glass are mostly from Zeiss and Canon. The new Batis are WOW. She uses the 85mm Batis for portraits and human photography. And the 25mm batis for landscape. Great lenses. Most times she carries a hand full of batteries with her. :-X But when she returned from north europe two weeks ago, she was dissatisfied. Her problem was, that the warmth of the cam, created moisture on the cam and on the back-lens of the Batis. Now she sent it to Zeiss and the cam to Sony.
My son in law loves you, as you are an Sony-fanboy ;D ;D He works for this company for nearly three decades and loves their innovations.

 

[Jopa]

Found at : http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/12

Silver award. Got just 83%.


Maybe the rumored 5DS(R) update will bring it up to 90% as its competitors.

LOL who give a cr@p about "dpreview"? Why their or somebody else's numbers matter? "83" based on some random-guy-you-don't-know opinion? The 5dsr is an AMAZING camera, one of a kind. Just buy it and try yourself and give it your own score.
As a Sony fanboy I completely ignored the 5dsr release and of course I got the A7r2. Sony promised good AF with the Canon glass since they don't make anything decent except of the 55 f/1.8 and 35 f/2.8. Better if they didn't mention the AF at all in their marketing materials, because I really had high hopes for it, and of course my disappointment was also quite high! The 5dsr has opened my eyes, I never thought the AF could be that good. The sensor is just unbelievable, and paired with some nice Canon glass it delivers outstanding results.
The only downside of the 5dsr compared to the a7r2... you'll be surprised - it's the lens selection again. With Sony you won't spend much on the lenses because there is nothing to buy, seems like Sony cares about your wallet! With Canon I spent $13k last month on the glass... I hate Canon!!!!!!!! Just kidding LOL.

Yes, my family member owns just one or two sony lenses. the other glass are mostly from Zeiss and Canon. The new Batis are WOW. She uses the 85mm Batis for portraits and human photography. And the 25mm batis for landscape. Great lenses. Most times she carries a hand full of batteries with her. :-X But when she returned from north europe two weeks ago, she was dissatisfied. Her problem was, that the warmth of the cam, created moisture on the cam and on the back-lens of the Batis. Now she sent it to Zeiss and the cam to Sony.
My son in law loves you, as you are an Sony-fanboy ;D ;D He works for this company for nearly three decades and loves their innovations.

Sony cams have some problems with weather sealing IMHO. It was acceptable for the A7r for its price, but for the $3200 A7r2 I think it could be better.

I was thinking about getting the Batis 85 as well, but it was too late - I had to pre-order the lens right after its announcement, now they are sold out everywhere. I already have the Otus 85, and while it's a great lens - sometimes I'm getting tired of MF. Got the Canon 85 f/1.2L II instead of the Batis - very happy! I can use it on both the 5dsr and the a7r2, and if I sell the A7r2 (most likely) - I won't need to sell the lens. The only problem - the AF (again) on the Sony, but it works quite well on the Canon. Not sure if it's true, the Batis is a Tamron's creature: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2015-05-27.

 

[xps]

Found at : http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/12

Silver award. Got just 83%.


Maybe the rumored 5DS(R) update will bring it up to 90% as its competitors.

LOL who give a cr@p about "dpreview"? Why their or somebody else's numbers matter? "83" based on some random-guy-you-don't-know opinion? The 5dsr is an AMAZING camera, one of a kind. Just buy it and try yourself and give it your own score.
As a Sony fanboy I completely ignored the 5dsr release and of course I got the A7r2. Sony promised good AF with the Canon glass since they don't make anything decent except of the 55 f/1.8 and 35 f/2.8. Better if they didn't mention the AF at all in their marketing materials, because I really had high hopes for it, and of course my disappointment was also quite high! The 5dsr has opened my eyes, I never thought the AF could be that good. The sensor is just unbelievable, and paired with some nice Canon glass it delivers outstanding results.
The only downside of the 5dsr compared to the a7r2... you'll be surprised - it's the lens selection again. With Sony you won't spend much on the lenses because there is nothing to buy, seems like Sony cares about your wallet! With Canon I spent $13k last month on the glass... I hate Canon!!!!!!!! Just kidding LOL.

Yes, my family member owns just one or two sony lenses. the other glass are mostly from Zeiss and Canon. The new Batis are WOW. She uses the 85mm Batis for portraits and human photography. And the 25mm batis for landscape. Great lenses. Most times she carries a hand full of batteries with her. :-X But when she returned from north europe two weeks ago, she was dissatisfied. Her problem was, that the warmth of the cam, created moisture on the cam and on the back-lens of the Batis. Now she sent it to Zeiss and the cam to Sony.
My son in law loves you, as you are an Sony-fanboy ;D ;D He works for this company for nearly three decades and loves their innovations.

Sony cams have some problems with weather sealing IMHO. It was acceptable for the A7r for its price, but for the $3200 A7r2 I think it could be better.

I was thinking about getting the Batis 85 as well, but it was too late - I had to pre-order the lens right after its announcement, now they are sold out everywhere. I already have the Otus 85, and while it's a great lens - sometimes I'm getting tired of MF. Got the Canon 85 f/1.2L II instead of the Batis - very happy! I can use it on both the 5dsr and the a7r2, and if I sell the A7r2 (most likely) - I won't need to sell the lens. The only problem - the AF (again) on the Sony, but it works quite well on the Canon. Not sure if it's true, the Batis is a Tamron's creature: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2015-05-27.

Interesting. Tamron? Well, I will ask an friend of mine. His son works for Zeiss. Maybe he knows something about it.
Yes, its true, the 7RII was hard to buy. She fetched it in the US, and the Batis was preordered, as she got an tip to do this. But they are visibly worth buying. (Or she knows how to use an camera)

 

[Loswr]

DPR can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. 8)

Come on Neuro, you have read enough reviewers reports on your submitted papers to take these in your stride. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VRBWLpYCPY

Lol! ;D

True, but why am I smiling? Because I am not left-handed weak-minded!

 

[Rupp1]

I know the 5DS is not meant for sports given its framerate, but shouldn't it run circles around the A7 camp for servo AF needs? Camera Store TV's review said this was one of the clear advantages the 5DS (and SLRs in general) have over the A7R II. (Or were they referring to the D810/D750 as the competition here?)

- A

While the a7R II is better at auto focus that the other a7 cameras, including the a7II, I own it and a 5DS-r. The a7RII is the first of the a7 series that I actually enjoy, and using the eye recognition technology can focus fine for social people shots. It's light and less noticeable on the street. But IMHO, very fast one-shot focus and AF servo on the a7R2 are not as fast, or as easy as the 5DS-r. To be fair, with the huge sensors, accuracy trumps speed on both cameras.

I also forgot to mention, in my earlier comment, that I think the DPreview reviews frequently put far too much emphasis on video. I don't care about video, if I do, I'll get a video camera. For social media, or a family memory, the video in my little Fuji x100s is good enough for me. Canon is overkill for my needs. Sony does 4K, OK, if it matters to you.

 

[Jesse]

Feel free to checkout how much my work improved when I switched from a 5D3 to a 5Ds

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jesseherzog

 

[9VIII]

At least they're still honest about the cons of the A7RII:

-No direct AF point control
-Lock-on AF still remains unpredictable and often unreliable
-Camera focuses stopped down in AF-C, often crippling AF at small apertures or in low light
-Eye-AF and Lock-on AF not available with 3rd party lenses, nor in video
-Camera drops to 12-bit mode in continuous shooting, dropping dynamic range
-Exposure parameters frozen while AF-C is engaged
-Viewfinder eye sensor is over-sensitive
-Buttons and dials are either too small, recessed, or mushy
-Inane interactions between menu items lead to poor experience and too many greyed out items
-Buffer is sluggish to clear, making quick image review and focus check difficult
-Video never shows low-light advantage of full frame sensor
-4K shot continuously for 30-45 min can cause overheating
-No in-camera Raw conversion
-No touchscreen
-Very limited battery life

Compared to the 5DS:

-Raw dynamic range limited compared to peers
-Base ISO images can be noisier than the best of the competition
-Low light performance limited compared to peers
-ISO cap of 12,800 (6400 for Auto ISO) feels arbitrary and limiting
-JPEGs not as sharp or detailed as some competitors
-AF subject tracking lags most peers
-Mirror and shutter vibrations require workarounds at certain shutter speeds and focal lengths
-No spot-metering linked to AF point
-Limited video features: no zebra, 1080/60p, flat gamma profile, or peaking options
-Slow AF in Live View and video

One of these products is obviously much more mature than the other.