Opinion: The USB-C DSLR problem isn’t as bad as you think

[SwissFrank]

How do you account for California forcing truckers to replace engines in their trucks 2 or 3 times just to keep up with incremental changes in emissions rules? Also, they forced retirement of perfectly good earthmoving equipment and put many contractors out of business in the process.

Incremental changes aren't to be sneezed at. LA's gone from 307 smog alert days a year in 1970 to like 13 recently, despite population doubling, and that's down to a chain of 50 years of "incremental changes." The bad air has real dollars-and-cents costs on the community's health. It'd be stupid to allow one person to forgo an engine upgrade that costs them $X if the cost to the community of them not doing it is going to be more than $X. If in a couple cases the incurred costs on the community aren't that high, so be it; most years they're far higher.

If significant numbers of contractors couldn't afford the upgrades, the profit of contracting would go up due to the Law of Supply and Demand: smaller supply of contracting results in price increasing to the point that demand slackens and supply grows to the point that price is again in balance. The costs of equipment upgrades will be passed along, more or less, to the citizenry in this fashion, and won't ultimately be coming out of contractors' pockets. And if say 10% of contractors are really going out of business, it'd be the worst 10%, right? Every industry has a weed-out from time to time. Nokia stopped making cell phones when they couldn't compete. My grandpa stopped raising hogs when his cost base was just too high. He didn't whine about it. No-one cried Nokia or my grandpa a river.

It makes total sense for a place like Oregon to have lower emissions standards than California. It's got far lower population density, so even dirty trucks won't be in such concentrations to produce bad health outcomes on the state's population.

I don't really want to get off topic in this group, and won't respond further no matter how crazy the discussion gets. If you really don't like regulation, though, seriously, why not move to Somalia? Basically no regulation, and not really any laws. You can go do everything however you want! Thing is, so can everyone around you! If that sounds like heaven on earth to you, what are you waiting for?

 

[Fischer]

How do you account for California forcing truckers to replace engines in their trucks 2 or 3 times just to keep up with incremental changes in emissions rules? Also, they forced retirement of perfectly good earthmoving equipment and put many contractors out of business in the process. Bargain prices on used dozers here in Oregon thanks to CA rules. As I said before, when the Govt turns authoritarian, they can do whatever they darn well please (at least until the next revolution).

I don't account for anything - its just not retroactive legislation to ban something that was previously allowed. Your city decides not to allow parking on the main street - is that retroactive legislation? Of course not. Your example is no different in principle even if the consequences may be larger for the individual. Anyway, take a law class if interested in these kind of questions.

 

[Dragon]

Using a philips driver to try opening up an MP-E lens to get rid of the stalk of grass inside is a bad idea. Don’t ask me how I know.
No one could have predicted that a Japanse company would use a Japanese industry standard screw!

Chinese and Korean companies use JIS screws as well. And, yes you can make a real mess of a lens with a Philips screwdriver. Same goes for Honda motorcycles.

 

[Dragon]

Incremental changes aren't to be sneezed at. LA's gone from 307 smog alert days a year in 1970 to like 13 recently, despite population doubling, and that's down to a chain of 50 years of "incremental changes." The bad air has real dollars-and-cents costs on the community's health. It'd be stupid to allow one person to forgo an engine upgrade that costs them $X if the cost to the community of them not doing it is going to be more than $X. If in a couple cases the incurred costs on the community aren't that high, so be it; most years they're far higher.

If significant numbers of contractors couldn't afford the upgrades, the profit of contracting would go up due to the Law of Supply and Demand: smaller supply of contracting results in price increasing to the point that demand slackens and supply grows to the point that price is again in balance. The costs of equipment upgrades will be passed along, more or less, to the citizenry in this fashion, and won't ultimately be coming out of contractors' pockets. And if say 10% of contractors are really going out of business, it'd be the worst 10%, right? Every industry has a weed-out from time to time. Nokia stopped making cell phones when they couldn't compete. My grandpa stopped raising hogs when his cost base was just too high. He didn't whine about it. No-one cried Nokia or my grandpa a river.

It makes total sense for a place like Oregon to have lower emissions standards than California. It's got far lower population density, so even dirty trucks won't be in such concentrations to produce bad health outcomes on the state's population.

I don't really want to get off topic in this group, and won't respond further no matter how crazy the discussion gets. If you really don't like regulation, though, seriously, why not move to Somalia? Basically no regulation, and not really any laws. You can go do everything however you want! Thing is, so can everyone around you! If that sounds like heaven on earth to you, what are you waiting for?

You just succinctly described why the cost of everything (housing in particular) has gone through the roof in CA. I wasn't suggesting that all regulation is bad, but rather that hyper-active regulation that obsoletes stuff well before its natural EOL is a bit over the top. So, now if you live in LA, you have slightly cleaner air than might have been, but thousands of homeless who can't afford a domicile in CA. In the end, it is all about balance.

 

[mdcmdcmdc]

I think the core issue is no one ensuring all modern devices use a minimum of USB-A/C 3.0 & notify consumers if there's PD or not.

I know some Sonynoobs(yes, they are similar to iSheeps imho) mock Canon cannot use non-PD cables and chargers, while their Sonys can use slow/dodgy cheap cables/powerbanks until it screws up the cameras.

EU law is still too relaxed to allow companies find gaps to keep using cheap/unreliable connectors. And on the other hand, Canon underestimates the number of consumers not reading the manuals before mess with the product.

USB-IF is a marketing organization, and I think some confusion benefits its members. Rather than keep the USB 1, 2, and 3 designations, they made each new standard to include the previous ones. How many consumers are going to know the difference between full speed, high speed, and super speed devices and cables?

Somebody at my company posted this on an internal Slack channel last week. Very interesting.

https://www.lumafield.com/article/u...ad-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics

 

[Dragon]

I don't account for anything - its just not retroactive legislation to ban something that was previously allowed. Your city decides not to allow parking on the main street - is that retroactive legislation? Of course not. Your example is no different in principle even if the consequences may be larger for the individual. Anyway, take a law class if interested in these kind of questions.

Legal, schmeagle. Allowing or not allowing parking on the street is a distinction in the use of PUBLIC property. Disallowing the use of legally owned private property is a giant step in the direction of disallowing private property altogether and that is called Communism. If that is what you want, go for it, but admit that is what you want and understand that it is not consistent with the American way.

 

[melgross]

The iMac was a relatively small piece of the overall PC market in 1998 and the USB standard was developed by a consortium that didn't even include Apple https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB . Intel did most of the development work, but all big boys in the PC world were on board. My recollection is that USB came on the scene pretty much simultaneously across all PC manufacturers, including the Taiwan Mobo manufacturers. Everybody was ready for something simpler than the RS 232 serial port. Apple was still pushing IEEE 1394 (firewire) in 1998, so the iMac using USB likely had more to do with the death of firewire than it did with the industry wide acceptance of USB.

Intel and Microsoft could not get USB to work until after the iMac came out and shamed them into it. USB was supposed to work with Win 95. But it didn’t. It didn’t work with Win 98 either until after Apple’s use, the third iteration of Win 98 finally had most of the problems worked out. FireWire was around years after. Apple elinimated two busses with USB. One was their keyboard and mouse bus and the other was the printer bus which was, I forget which right now, either a serial bus, I think, or possibly a parallel bus, less likely.

usb was a very slow port then. FireWire was a vastly faster port that was designed specifically for audio and video, though it was used for a close network, etc.

 

[Dragon]

Intel and Microsoft could not get USB to work until after the iMac came out and shamed them into it. USB was supposed to work with Win 95. But it didn’t. It didn’t work with Win 98 either until after Apple’s use, the third iteration of Win 98 finally had most of the problems worked out. FireWire was around years after. Apple elinimated two busses with USB. One was their keyboard and mouse bus and the other was the printer bus which was, I forget which right now, either a serial bus, I think, or possibly a parallel bus, less likely.

usb was a very slow port then. FireWire was a vastly faster port that was designed specifically for audio and video, though it was used for a close network, etc.

Actually, there were three interfaces (in addition to IEEE 1394) that were superseded by USB. The PS/2 port for mouse and keyboard (still the most reliable), the parallel printer port, and the RS232 serial port (which is still available on most motherboards for industrial connections). I don't recall USB being a problem on PC's. It worked from the time it was available on the dozens of PCs I worked with. Did you actually read the article?

 

[Kit.]

Legal, schmeagle. Allowing or not allowing parking on the street is a distinction in the use of PUBLIC property. Disallowing the use of legally owned private property is a giant step in the direction of disallowing private property altogether and that is called Communism. If that is what you want, go for it, but admit that is what you want and understand that it is not consistent with the American way.

Wasn't that what slave owners were saying?

 

[David - Sydney]

Legal, schmeagle. Allowing or not allowing parking on the street is a distinction in the use of PUBLIC property. Disallowing the use of legally owned private property is a giant step in the direction of disallowing private property altogether and that is called Communism. If that is what you want, go for it, but admit that is what you want and understand that it is not consistent with the American way.

Not sure that you would call Australia a communist country but of course any government can change/ modify private property usage. Our constitution requires 'just terms' (financial compensation) for property that is compulsorily acquired. Land is the classic example with government rezoning and in the example below - guns.

John Howard in 1996 (Australian prime minister at the time) changed gun laws after Australia's worst mass gun shooting occurred when 35 people were killed by a single gunman with 2 semiautomatic rifles. The government introduced buybacks and an amnesty for surrendering (retroactively) banned weapons. The move was one of his most lauded achievements.
More than a million firearms were collected when the population was about 17 million in 1996.
In 2003, additional buyback legislation for certain handguns was implemented and a numbed of amnesties and now a permanent federal amnesty.
Over 20 years later, the "nanny state" laws still have 85-90% polls showing the current law popularity for current or more stringent restrictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia

#startsunrelatedargumentofftopicgundebatewithamerican #notcommunism #universalhealthcareisnotsocialism

 

[David - Sydney]

USB-IF is a marketing organization, and I think some confusion benefits its members. Rather than keep the USB 1, 2, and 3 designations, they made each new standard to include the previous ones. How many consumers are going to know the difference between full speed, high speed, and super speed devices and cables?

Somebody at my company posted this on an internal Slack channel last week. Very interesting.

https://www.lumafield.com/article/u...ad-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics

You just have the look at the myriad of certifications listed on a SD card being specific and yet impenetrable for consumers to understand

 

[Dragon]

Not sure that you would call Australia a communist country but of course any government can change/ modify private property usage. Our constitution requires 'just terms' (financial compensation) for property that is compulsorily acquired. Land is the classic example with government rezoning and in the example below - guns.

John Howard in 1996 (Australian prime minister at the time) changed gun laws after Australia's worst mass gun shooting occurred when 35 people were killed by a single gunman with 2 semiautomatic rifles. The government introduced buybacks and an amnesty for surrendering (retroactively) banned weapons. The move was one of his most lauded achievements.
More than a million firearms were collected when the population was about 17 million in 1996.
In 2003, additional buyback legislation for certain handguns was implemented and a numbed of amnesties and now a permanent federal amnesty.
Over 20 years later, the "nanny state" laws still have 85-90% polls showing the current law popularity for current or more stringent restrictions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia

#startsunrelatedargumentofftopicgundebatewithamerican #notcommunism #universalhealthcareisnotsocialism

This is not the place to try to hash out the rights and wrongs of gun ownership, but a few facts are worth considering. Firstly, the people who were obliged to turn in their guns were compensated based on the governments opinion of value and not their own. Secondly, It is not apparent that new gun laws had any direct effect on the homicide rate https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/27-years-recorded-crime-victims-data . The rate homicide increased after 1996 and then gradually dropped over the next decade, but the curves essentially match the curves for other crimes (with the notable exception of sexual assault which is also typically under-reported). A key point is that the 1996 mass shooting was barely a blip in the statistics (and Australia has long had a very low homicide rate). Lastly, gun ownership is now higher than it was in 1996 https://theconversation.com/austral...o-own-several-buy-more-than-ever-before-58142 . As I said, this is not the place to argue the good or bad of gun policy, but the numbers suggest that the new policy in Australia has not been particularly effective in spite of the worldwide hype.

 

[David - Sydney]

This is not the place to try to hash out the rights and wrongs of gun ownership, but a few facts are worth considering. Firstly, the people who were obliged to turn in their guns were compensated based on the governments opinion of value and not their own. Secondly, It is not apparent that new gun laws had any direct effect on the homicide rate https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/27-years-recorded-crime-victims-data . The rate homicide increased after 1996 and then gradually dropped over the next decade, but the curves essentially match the curves for other crimes (with the notable exception of sexual assault which is also typically under-reported). A key point is that the 1996 mass shooting was barely a blip in the statistics (and Australia has long had a very low homicide rate). Lastly, gun ownership is now higher than it was in 1996 https://theconversation.com/austral...o-own-several-buy-more-than-ever-before-58142 . As I said, this is not the place to argue the good or bad of gun policy, but the numbers suggest that the new policy in Australia has not been particularly effective in spite of the worldwide hype.

And I deliberately didn't mention any of those points as they were already in the wikipedia article and I wasn't trying to argue those points.

You suggested that it was a big step towards communism when a government retrospectively changes personal property rights and I provided 2 examples (land and guns).
Decades on after implementation, Australia has not lurched us towards communism (or socialism or dictatorship or other non-democratic governmental characteristics) and virtually all us punters are happy with the current regulation despite the fact of having more (non-banned) guns now.

 

[melgross]

Actually, there were three interfaces (in addition to IEEE 1394) that were superseded by USB. The PS/2 port for mouse and keyboard (still the most reliable), the parallel printer port, and the RS232 serial port (which is still available on most motherboards for industrial connections). I don't recall USB being a problem on PC's. It worked from the time it was available on the dozens of PCs I worked with. Did you actually read the article?

I was talking about the Mac interfaces. I was there when it all happened. I remember it quite well. No, it had major problems until Win 98 rev. 3, after the iMac came out.

 

[SteveC]

I started taking macro photos of the ports and labels. I don't know if it will help you, but it made things easier on me

That will help...unless the small label is on the macro lens itself!

 

[EricN]

That will help...unless the small label is on the macro lens itself!

That's why we should all buy not only Canon equipment but another company's as well. Don't worry about your partner finding out, the bodies are all black and the the lenses are either black or white. S/he'll never notice as long as they don't look at your monthly financial statements.

 

[SteveC]

That's why we should all buy not only Canon equipment but another company's as well. Don't worry about your partner finding out, the bodies are all black and the the lenses are either black or white. S/he'll never notice as long as they don't look at your monthly financial statements.

Or alternatively...a second Canon macro lens.

 

[EricN]

Or alternatively...a second Canon macro lens.

That will work for the first macro lens's markings, but what if it's on the camera's body?

 

[dolina]

To my limited understanding the change over to USB-C charged devices only applies to new products & not old products still being sold.

If that were the case whatever dSLR users are left then they will not have this issue.

With smartphones, tablets and computers ~9 of 10 users have 0-10yo devices.

Are dSLR & MILC users upgrading the same way?

Are 9 of 10 active 2012 EOS 5D Mark III users upgrading to a 2020 EOS R5, 2024 EOS R5 mark II or other MILC?

BH Photo has the following EF bodies still on sale

- 2016 EOS 5D Mark IV
- 2016 EOS-1D X Mark II
- 2017 EOS 6D Mark II
- 2019 EOS Rebel SL3 (EOS 200D Mark II in Australia and Asia)
- 2019 EOS 90D
- 2020 EOS-1D X Mark III

I think Canon JP will halt production or Canon US will halt importation of the 2016 models next year when the EOS R5 Mark II & EOS R1 will be released.

 

[RunAndGun]

To summarize: Blah, blah, blah, big double decker nothing burger, blah, blah, blah.