Patent: Canon EF 200-600mm f/4.5-5.6 IS

[ahsanford]

Yowzer:

http://photorumors.com/2015/12/06/canon-ef-200-600mm-f4-5-5-6l-usm-full-frame-lens-patent/

Would Canon actually offer such a lens? Nikon's 200-500 f/5.6 IS is the steal of the century at $1400...

- A

 

[9VIII]

That sounds like another Big White, if it were in the 90mm range I might say there's a chance of it being inexpensive, but this is another huge lens.
Maybe sales for the 200-400+TC took a dive and they're figuring out a more attractive offering.

 

[ahsanford]

Maybe sales for the 200-400+TC took a dive and they're figuring out a more attractive offering.

I don't think that's it. There's a big portfolio gap for Canon: leaving crop factors out, you cannot shoot past 400mm FF with a Canon zoom unless you're fond of teleconverters (which punishes IQ and can handcuff your AF options/performance).

This lens -- if it becomes a real product someday -- effectively solves that problem.

What's odd is that Nikon (more than Tamron or Sigma) really threw a monkey wrench in Canon's ability to ask for a lot of money for this lens. Consider: a similarly max-apertured 100-400L II costs over $2k, so one would imagine a 200-600 version of that speed of lens would cost a good deal more. But Nikon joining the budget masses with a first-party 200-500 lens at $1400 may force Canon to offer a 200-600 for a bit less than they had originally hoped.

- A

 

[Don Haines]

Maybe sales for the 200-400+TC took a dive and they're figuring out a more attractive offering.

I don't think that's it. There's a big portfolio gap for Canon: leaving crop factors out, you cannot shoot past 400mm FF with a Canon zoom unless you're fond of teleconverters (which punishes IQ and can handcuff your AF options/performance).

This lens -- if it becomes a real product someday -- effectively solves that problem.

What's odd is that Nikon (more than Tamron or Sigma) really threw a monkey wrench in Canon's ability to ask for a lot of money for this lens. Consider: a similarly max-apertured 100-400L II costs over $2k, so one would imagine a 200-600 version of that speed of lens would cost a good deal more. But Nikon joining the budget masses with a first-party 200-500 lens at $1400 may force Canon to offer a 200-600 for a bit less than they had originally hoped.

- A

A lot of Nikon shooters like the 200-500F5.6 lens (about $1600 here in Canada). It sells well. To get to 500mm with Canon will cost you $10,500 and for the vast bulk of photographers, that's not an option. To get to 400mm with an IS lens will cost you $2400. Costs more for less reach.... the recommended path for beginner birders is away from Canon.

Birders are a significant portion of Canon's long lens market. They have to counter this with something, so a 200-600 F5.6 lens is the logical path to regain leadership in that segment. I think this lens will happen relatively soon....

 

[ahsanford]

Maybe sales for the 200-400+TC took a dive and they're figuring out a more attractive offering.

I don't think that's it. There's a big portfolio gap for Canon: leaving crop factors out, you cannot shoot past 400mm FF with a Canon zoom unless you're fond of teleconverters (which punishes IQ and can handcuff your AF options/performance).

This lens -- if it becomes a real product someday -- effectively solves that problem.

What's odd is that Nikon (more than Tamron or Sigma) really threw a monkey wrench in Canon's ability to ask for a lot of money for this lens. Consider: a similarly max-apertured 100-400L II costs over $2k, so one would imagine a 200-600 version of that speed of lens would cost a good deal more. But Nikon joining the budget masses with a first-party 200-500 lens at $1400 may force Canon to offer a 200-600 for a bit less than they had originally hoped.

- A

A lot of Nikon shooters like the 200-500F5.6 lens (about $1600 here in Canada). It sells well. To get to 500mm with Canon will cost you $10,500 and for the vast bulk of photographers, that's not an option. To get to 400mm with an IS lens will cost you $2400. Costs more for less reach.... the recommended path for beginner birders is away from Canon.

Birders are a significant portion of Canon's long lens market. They have to counter this with something, so a 200-600 F5.6 lens is the logical path to regain leadership in that segment. I think this lens will happen relatively soon....

Yep. See the attached. Nikon grabbed that circled bit with a vengeance with that 200-500 f/5.6 for $1,400.

Now we can discuss whether 500 vs. 600 is all that different or whether Canon sees this 200-600 as Mid-Level / Starter L or just a basic non-L lens (max aperture of the patent would imply this is a pricier 100-400L II and not a non-L starter lens), and I'm clearly mixing a three price point conversation with a 400 vs. 600 reach conversation, but any way you slice it, Canon's pricing gameplan (jump from $2k to $10K in the blink of an eye) is under a ton more pressure than it was even 2 years ago.

- A

 

[Maximilian]

Thanks, ahsanford, for sharing!

If I did measure right the front element has a diameter of about 120 mm.
That's definetly too big for a budget lens IMHO.
Nikon, Sigma C and Tamron have a filter thread of 95 mm. Sigma S 105 mm.

120 mm are about what we have with the 200/2.0L or 300/2.8L.
So this will be at least the price region where this patent would settle.
To me all this points towards a big white.

But it could be cheaper than the 200-400L and that might be the market, canon is looking for.

Edit: Also the optical formula looks pretty short for 600 mm fl (355 mm). 600/4L is 448 mm + BF.
Quite attractive lens. I guess they'll at least make some prototypes...

 

[K-amps]

That sounds like another Big White, if it were in the 90mm range I might say there's a chance of it being inexpensive, but this is another huge lens.

Yes it is but will it compete wither either the Sigma or Tamron 150-600 zooms in terms of price?

Or will the affordable super-tele-zoom remain the domain of Sigma & Tamron?

There is a huge gap between the 100-400mm mk.II and the 200-400 TC, so this new lens could sell for $3200 - $4500 range. If it is sharp, it will sell well.

 

[9VIII]

That sounds like another Big White, if it were in the 90mm range I might say there's a chance of it being inexpensive, but this is another huge lens.

Yes it is but will it compete wither either the Sigma or Tamron 150-600 zooms in terms of price?

Or will the affordable super-tele-zoom remain the domain of Sigma & Tamron?

As far as I'm concerned the 100-400MkII is already competitive with Sigma and Tamron. The Nikon is actually sharp at 500mm however, that lens actually offers something new (first party full frame superzoom).
If Canon actually does move to counter Nikon within a year of the 200-500 releasing that would give a lot of insight as to where their priorities are.
But it would be completely out of character for anyone to release a lens that big anywhere near the prices we're talking about. The only way this could be a budget lens is if they throw a ton of low quality glass in there and just barely outperform the competition.

But who knows, the Nikon 200-500 is larger than the cost would indicate and with top IQ too. If Nikon can do that then maybe Canon can figure out how to make a decent 600mm zoom lens for less than $4K.

 

[TheJock]

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE be true
If it's between 2.5 to $3,500 then I'm all over it!!

 

[KeithBreazeal]

It appears this is an internal focus.
Snooping the links indicates this lens is build and might be out in wild.
Things are getting interesting.

 

[xps]

I joined an nature photography workshop last weekend, able to "test" some of the big whites. We were allowed to shoot with the 600, 500, 200-400 and the 400DO. All are exiting products, but are still very expensive. My preference was the 7DII and the 600mm (the 1DX was a real pleasure, but to expensive) So we asked, if there are alternatives. The advice was to wait until autumn. They told us, there will be an announcement of an zoom around 600mm, priced about 50%-75% higher than the 100-400, having IS and and an "L" in its name. And Canon is definitively working on an stellar successor of the 600mm. But the price will be really highend. (The Canon guy, who was part of the instructor team, did not dispute these rumors and stayed neutral).
So, I am personally torn, if I should wait until autumn and buy an new 5D?, a new 100-400, 200-600, 70-200,27-70 and 16-35 or an 7DII with an 600mm.

 

[Hjalmarg1]

What's odd is that Nikon (more than Tamron or Sigma) really threw a monkey wrench in Canon's ability to ask for a lot of money for this lens. Consider: a similarly max-apertured 100-400L II costs over $2k, so one would imagine a 200-600 version of that speed of lens would cost a good deal more. But Nikon joining the budget masses with a first-party 200-500 lens at $1400 may force Canon to offer a 200-600 for a bit less than they had originally hoped.

- A

Good move from Nikon and others making long telephoto lenses affordable.

 

[weixing]

Hi,
I doubt it'll be cheap if it zoom out at 600mm f5.6... optical glass larger than 100mm diameter is significantly more expensive.

Have a nice day.

 

[xps]

Hi,
I doubt it'll be cheap if it zoom out at 600mm f5.6... optical glass larger than 100mm diameter is significantly more expensive.

Have a nice day.

If you calculate the image proportions, 120mm diameter occurs.... omg. Then 3500€/$ will be cheap

 

[candc]

Hi,
I doubt it'll be cheap if it zoom out at 600mm f5.6... optical glass larger than 100mm diameter is significantly more expensive.

Have a nice day.

If you calculate the image proportions, 120mm diameter occurs.... omg. Then 3500€/$ will be cheap

600/5.6=107.14
if it is to have a 105mm filter size then it would need to get shortened up a bit or go with 6.3 aperture like the sigma/tamron versions

 

[N2itiv]

Too much focal length spread for my tastes. Would like to see this lens as an 300-600 or 400-600 f/4.5-5.6 . The closer focal length could allow for a sharper optic. I would jump on such a lens if it has comparable image quality to the 100-400L IS ll.

 

[Maximilian]

Hi,
I doubt it'll be cheap if it zoom out at 600mm f5.6... optical glass larger than 100mm diameter is significantly more expensive.

Have a nice day.

If you calculate the image proportions, 120mm diameter occurs.... omg. Then 3500€/$ will be cheap

600/5.6=107.14
if it is to have a 105mm filter size then it would need to get shortened up a bit or go with 6.3 aperture like the sigma/tamron versions

Hi again!

Please look again closely at the patent. It says f5.2 @ 600 mm
600 mm/5.2 = 115.4 mm
That fits quite well to my measurement I stated before (120 mm).

So prime lenses from Canon with that big front elements are normally sold north of $6.000
And this is a zoom = more moving parts, more precission in moving the optical elements = more expensive

So IMHO @ $6.000 this really would still be a "budget" zoom

 

[danski0224]

I bet this one would sell like hotcakes if the IQ was good and the price reasonable.

If the IQ could match or be very close to the current 600II, would people pay ~$6k for it?

 

[kubelik]

yessss! this is pretty similar to the 500 f/5.6 I've been hoping for all this time. I'm guessing this would come in ~$2.5K, given that the 100-400 II is going for $2.2K ... as much as I'd like to have it for sub-$2K, I doubt that'll happen. still, would spend the money knowing that my upgrade path is essentially complete with the purchase of this lens.

 

[Maximilian]

As I stated in the other thread mentioned, this one will have a front element of 120 mm (600 mm/f5.2 = 115.4 mm).
Compareable size as 300/2.8L so compareble price north of $6.000.

NO "budget" lens for $2k or §3k, IMHO.