Patent: Various RF mount zoom lenses, including an APS-C RF mount design

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Still waiting for a R6 with APS-C sensor. I want a high end hybrid body with the specs of a R6 and willing to pay like 2k for it. Don't have the budget as a hobbyist to upgrade to a R6 and all the expensive FF glass that comes with it. I would need to replace my Canon 10 18, sigma 18-35mm and 60mm macro with ff equivalent glass. The FF benefits are not worth it to me with all the costs involved. I am perfectly happy with Aps-C but I need better specs especially for video work. 4k 60p 10 bit, 1080 120p all with dpaf no crop and IBIS.

So yes IMO please offer a R Aps-C body. The m series is not doing it for me ergonomics wise.
Canon is not likely to come out with a line of APS-C glass for the R's.

I assume you just want an R with the equivalent pixel density of your APS-C canon's without upgrading to full frame so you can use your EF glass on the R's?
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
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Canon is not likely to come out with a line of APS-C glass for the R's.

I assume you just want an R with the equivalent pixel density of your APS-C canon's without upgrading to full frame so you can use your EF glass on the R's?
APS-c on RF mount seems unlikely for anything but Cine, where FF often does not have enough DOF to be practical. With the C70, I suspect we will see some crop cine lenses, but they will be EXPENSIVE and not very useful to those carping about an APS-c R body. Bring on the R5s and lightweight big whites first. Get the M7 out and then if the 7D II wishful thinkers haven't gone away consider the market practicality of their request. (BTW, I still don't think an APS-c R makes business sense).
 
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Nigel95

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Oct 2, 2020
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Canon is not likely to come out with a line of APS-C glass for the R's.

I assume you just want an R with the equivalent pixel density of your APS-C canon's without upgrading to full frame so you can use your EF glass on the R's?
Yes I have 3 lenses which are only for the APS-C sensor and am perfectly happy with the quality of this lenses. The thing I am missing is a body with the specs I like to have. Especially 4k 60p as I find the Canon 1080p a bit soft. So in fact I don't even need a R body but since there is nothing on the EF side that matches my wish list and don't think there ever will be one in that line. I prefer a R body for the future, if I ever want to upgrade my lenses there is plenty of choice on the RF side. The EF-M bodies are not my preference. I don't have much faith in the development of that line in terms of lenses. I don't need to have very compact lenses and bodies which seems the market for EF-M. My current 200d is a bit small to my liking. I prefer a body somewhat bigger than that.

If I would upgrade now to FF Canon R6. Then I would still buy and adapt EF glass like the Canon 16 - 35 F4, 100mm 2.8 macro non IS and maybe a 24-70.
 
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Oct 4, 2020
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It's a shame that you can't put an RF lens on the M mount, it would be ideal for birders who need the crop sensor but want better quality, longer and lighter lenses. It would also be a good upgrade path if they wish to go Full Frame and get an R body in the future.
 

canonnews

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Yes I have 3 lenses which are only for the APS-C sensor and am perfectly happy with the quality of this lenses. The thing I am missing is a body with the specs I like to have. Especially 4k 60p as I find the Canon 1080p a bit soft.
First - make sure you have a good picture style choosen. Canon by default will not sharpen that much and thier video can take a fair amount of in camera sharpening or during post video production.

So in fact I don't even need a R body but since there is nothing on the EF side that matches my wish list and don't think there ever will be one in that line. I prefer a R body for the future, if I ever want to upgrade my lenses there is plenty of choice on the RF side. The EF-M bodies are not my preference. I don't have much faith in the development of that line in terms of lenses. I don't need to have very compact lenses and bodies which seems the market for EF-M. My current 200d is a bit small to my liking. I prefer a body somewhat bigger than that.
I hear you. Alot of poeple have found the M6II find for adapting but I never have tried it. Unlike Craig (CR) I don't think Canon will dump the EOS-M simply because it sells too well in Asia. Canon will just simply continue to run it side by side. Like they do the EF rebels. I would suggest playing around with one though. They are smaller, but you grip them differently than a DSLR. I too found anything lower than an XXD series DSLR uncomfortable, but find the M's "okay" because you tend to grip them slightly differently than a DSLR. Instead of wrapping 4 fingers around the grip, i tend to wrap 2 around the grip, and rest the camera on the top of my third finger. Over time, that became comfortable.

If I would upgrade now to FF Canon R6. Then I would still buy and adapt EF glass like the Canon 16 - 35 F4, 100mm 2.8 macro non IS and maybe a 24-70.
Long term it's probably the route if you don't want to toss that much money into photo gear, I'd even suggest purchasing an R instead, and looking for the lenses on ebay - as more and more people will be moving off the EF mount. And R will give you 12MP to work with your EF-S lenses as well - perhaps not optimum, but a stepping stone to more full frame lenses over time. Your EF-S lenses particularly the 18-35mm would be perfect on the R for video as well. So they have a special importance because of the R's cropped video. Thinking a little more, an R should really be what you are wanting to upgrade to, and they are well south of $2000 now if you watch - and certainly watch for black friday and cyber monday sales, as the R is most certainly going to be dumped in price this year.
 
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canonnews

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It's a shame that you can't put an RF lens on the M mount, it would be ideal for birders who need the crop sensor but want better quality, longer and lighter lenses. It would also be a good upgrade path if they wish to go Full Frame and get an R body in the future.
the RF lenses won't be particularly lighter than their EF counterparts when you are talking longer focal lengths.
 

Nigel95

I'm New Here
Oct 2, 2020
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First - make sure you have a good picture style choosen. Canon by default will not sharpen that much and thier video can take a fair amount of in camera sharpening or during post video production.
Since I switched from the default standard picture style it's a massive difference especially in terms of contrast, crushed blacks and clipping highlights. Currently using Cinetech from Visioncolor and it's amazing how it can retain a little bit more detail in the highlights compared to the neutral picture style (prolost settings). I turn sharpness all the way down and sharpen in post. However if I compare my footage on YT with other channels in the same niche, it's a big difference (to my eyes not so much the viewers probably) even when watching on smaller / no 4k screens. Those other channels shoot with 5d Mark IV and 1DX Mark II 4k. They have sharp FF lenses sure, but I think my Sigma 18-35mm and canon 60mm macro are also pretty sharp and it feels like the 1080p of Canon becomes the bottleneck?


Long term it's probably the route if you don't want to toss that much money into photo gear, I'd even suggest purchasing an R instead, and looking for the lenses on ebay - as more and more people will be moving off the EF mount. And R will give you 12MP to work with your EF-S lenses as well - perhaps not optimum, but a stepping stone to more full frame lenses over time. Your EF-S lenses particularly the 18-35mm would be perfect on the R for video as well. So they have a special importance because of the R's cropped video. Thinking a little more, an R should really be what you are wanting to upgrade to, and they are well south of $2000 now if you watch - and certainly watch for black friday and cyber monday sales, as the R is most certainly going to be dumped in price this year.
The EOS R is a better option indeed the 1080p also has a much better bitrate than my 200d. I am just waiting for an upgrade that will set me for a while. Instead of upgrading now and want to upgrade again if something interesting comes from Canon. The lack of 4k 60p in the EOS R doesn't make it an interesting option for me. I use 1080p 60p a lot on my current 200d for gimbal shots. I use the 60p option more than just a few clips which makes me really want it to have with 4k to get the best quality. It really helps to smooth out micro jitters especially because I also record a lot of close up stuff which is hard on a gimbal. I know a slider is better which I also have. Sometimes the gimbal is just much quicker when time is limited especially for events / shops in my niche.

I feel if I can get a Canon camera with 4k 60p, 1080p 120p both with dpaf, animal af, c-log, and some IBIS or better implementation of electronic stab this would set me for a while. The questions remains if Canon will come with something like this. Maybe the rumored C50 could be a candidate (if EF-S glass on super 35 works properly). It ticks quite some boxes (not all) based on the rumor info. Then I could keep using my 200d just for stills.
 

Dragon

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May 29, 2019
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Yes I have 3 lenses which are only for the APS-C sensor and am perfectly happy with the quality of this lenses. The thing I am missing is a body with the specs I like to have. Especially 4k 60p as I find the Canon 1080p a bit soft. So in fact I don't even need a R body but since there is nothing on the EF side that matches my wish list and don't think there ever will be one in that line. I prefer a R body for the future, if I ever want to upgrade my lenses there is plenty of choice on the RF side. The EF-M bodies are not my preference. I don't have much faith in the development of that line in terms of lenses. I don't need to have very compact lenses and bodies which seems the market for EF-M. My current 200d is a bit small to my liking. I prefer a body somewhat bigger than that.

If I would upgrade now to FF Canon R6. Then I would still buy and adapt EF glass like the Canon 16 - 35 F4, 100mm 2.8 macro non IS and maybe a 24-70.
Depending on how much you want to spend, either a 90D or an R5 would be perfectly happy with your EF-s lenses. The 90D has very good 4k as does the R5 in crop mode.
 

Nigel95

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Oct 2, 2020
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Depending on how much you want to spend, either a 90D or an R5 would be perfectly happy with your EF-s lenses. The 90D has very good 4k as does the R5 in crop mode.
90d doesn't have 4k 60p or 1080 120p dpaf unfortunately. For the price of a R5 it's better for me to get the R6 and buy second hand EF FF glass to adapt. And that is just out of my budget as a hobbyist currently. That's why a high end aps-c suits me much better to reuse current glass as I don't need the FF benefits. Now it seems I need to jump to FF just for fast specs while I don't need things like smaller dof for my shooting style. I don't expect to get all the high end specs for a price like a m50 mark II. I willing to pay up to 2k for the body only to get something like a Fuji Xt4 equivalent.
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
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90d doesn't have 4k 60p or 1080 120p dpaf unfortunately. For the price of a R5 it's better for me to get the R6 and buy second hand EF FF glass to adapt. And that is just out of my budget as a hobbyist currently. That's why a high end aps-c suits me much better to reuse current glass as I don't need the FF benefits. Now it seems I need to jump to FF just for fast specs while I don't need things like smaller dof for my shooting style. I don't expect to get all the high end specs for a price like a m50 mark II. I willing to pay up to 2k for the body only to get something like a Fuji Xt4 equivalent.
So Canon has a choice between what you are asking for and an M5 II/M7. I think from a business perspective, it is impossible to offer an APS-c R without a decent set of supporting lenses. That approach would kill the M line, which is a very good seller (particularly in Asia), so then Canon would need a whole line of APS-c R bodies (a la Rebel) and those of us with an investment in M would not be happy. An M7 would also need a couple of new lenses to make it attractive, but far less effort than the first approach and remember, by the numbers, there are likely a LOT more M users than there are 7D II users that just want an updated version of what they have. All I can suggest is make your voice heard in the halls of Canon. My vote is for the M5 II/M7 (and yes, I did buy an R5 and the lens incompatibility with M is not an issue for me). Canon has offered a path to use your EF-s lenses in the way that the R bodies automatically switch to crop mode when you attach an EF-s lens, so they didn't leave your investment high and dry. As a side note, I can't find any indication that the Nikon Z50 is anywhere to be seen in sales numbers, so that may be an indicator as to how popular a large mount APS-c mirrorless would be. Note that the M mount is actually slightly larger than the Sony E mount, which explains why Sony can make such small APS-c bodies.
 
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Nigel95

I'm New Here
Oct 2, 2020
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So Canon has a choice between what you are asking for and an M5 II/M7. I think from a business perspective, it is impossible to offer an APS-c R without a decent set of supporting lenses. That approach would kill the M line, which is a very good seller (particularly in Asia), so then Canon would need a whole line of APS-c R bodies (a la Rebel) and those of us with an investment in M would not be happy. An M7 would also need a couple of new lenses to make it attractive, but far less effort than the first approach and remember, by the numbers, there are likely a LOT more M users than there are 7D II users that just want an updated version of what they have. All I can suggest is make your voice heard in the halls of Canon. My vote is for the M5 II/M7 (and yes, I did buy an R5 and the lens incompatibility with M is not an issue for me). Canon has offered a path to use your EF-s lenses in the way that the R bodies automatically switch to crop mode when you attach an EF-s lens, so they didn't leave your investment high and dry. As a side note, I can't find any indication that the Nikon Z50 is anywhere to be seen in sales numbers, so that may be an indicator as to how popular a large mount APS-c mirrorless would be. Note that the M mount is actually slightly larger than the Sony E mount, which explains why Sony can make such small APS-c bodies.
Some good points you made there. I still hope there will be an APS-C body. I remember a rumor of an Aps-C R body in the second half of 2021. If there will be no APS-C R body then I think I have to go for a M7. I hope that Canon at some point will push more effort towards high quality lenses for this system. And hopefully some third party like Sigma will keep making new lenses for EF-M. I wonder if the M7 as a flagship would be a slightly bigger body as well. If its a little bit bigger than my 200d, I would be happy. Hopefully we will see IBIS in the M7 as well..

What I don't like is the stories about killing the M line or something like keep selling the current bodies with kit lenses without any effort for new lenses. That would be appealing about an Aps c R body as this line seems to get all the R&D especially with lenses. The idea that I buy a nice camera in a dead system bothers me.
 
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Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
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Some good points you made there. I still hope there will be an APS-C body. I remember a rumor of an Aps-C R body in the second half of 2021. If there will be no APS-C R body then I think I have to go for a M7. I hope that Canon at some point will push more effort towards high quality lenses for this system. And hopefully some third party like Sigma will keep making new lenses for EF-M. I wonder if the M7 as a flagship would be a slightly bigger body as well. If its a little bit bigger than my 200d, I would be happy. Hopefully we will see IBIS in the M7 as well..

What I don't like is the stories about killing the M line or something like keep selling the current bodies with kit lenses without any effort for new lenses. That would be appealing about an Aps c R body as this line seems to get all the R&D especially with lenses. The idea that I buy a nice camera in a dead system bothers me.
At this point, the rumors swing both ways, to some extent colored by the bias of the rumor reporter. Canon is clearly putting their primary effort into the R line right now, which makes sense given the drop in the low end of the market. I do think one of the reasons we haven't seen a replacement yet for the M5 is power related. Clearly the DigicX has a lot more processing power per watt than the Digic8, but it may still be marginal in a full featured M body. However, given that the 8k feature would not be there, I suspect that an undervolted DigicX would be within and acceptable power budget, so we may be just looking at the time needed to stabilize yields and get enough volume in hand to address the M7 market (which I think would be quite large). There may also be a new sensor in development to address the now desired higher read speeds (as you pointed out above, the 90D doesn't do 4k/60), and the M7 may also be waiting on a couple of lenses to make it more attractive to the enthusiast market. All speculation, of course, but based on pretty straightforward reasoning. If the M7 is to functionally replace the 7D II, then it also should have a battery grip available both for longer battery life and to balance bigger lenses. My gut says we will get the answer within the next 6 months. In the meantime, enjoy you 7D II :).
 
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