PC or MAC

[Jettatore]

Yeah but Awin, it's not like the Canon vs. Nikon debate or the Coke vs. Pepsi debate.

You have three ranges of OS systems. For profit, closed source and proprietary (Apple), For profit and closed source (Windows) and completely free (Linux). Apple, is continually pulling technology away from open source systemologies and towards proprietary monopolistic empires that they control entirely. It's a BAD idea for all of us in the long run. I'm embarrassed to even still be on a Windows machine at this point and I plan to have this completely corrected by the end of 2012.

 

[imjwalsh]

Here is my 2 cents:

I seriously considered going with a 15” Mac Book Pro, but ended up going with Lenovo instead as I work with PCs for work and could get more speed for a system that I am very familiar with. I ended up going with a W510 (W520 is current model) which is a “workstation replacement.” It has an i7 quad core processor, nVidia GPU with 48 cores, and 16GB of memory. It also has a built in colorimeter and 95% color gamut display. It has an eSata port too, for very fast external hard drive access. I don’t think I would have gone wrong with a Mac Book Pro; I think this was just a better fit for what I wanted. At some point I will upgrade to a Solid State Drive and use my current drive as a secondary after taking out the burner which I do not really use. I don’t think it is as easy to do this sort of thing on a Mac.

I use Lightroom 3, Photoshop CS5, and Premier CS5. I also host a VM that I use for work. It sits in its docking station and is hooked up to 2 displays at home, but still is relatively mobile for working around the house or traveling with it. I did a photo vacation in Utah in February and brought this with me (and of course everyone else had Macs). I personally haven’t had any trouble with the business ThinkPad class of Lenovos; I still have my machine that’s 4.5 years old and is working fine (although I did have to replace the battery). I also like Windows 7 much better than previous Microsoft offerings.

 

[awinphoto]

Yeah but Awin, it's not like the Canon vs. Nikon debate or the Coke vs. Pepsi debate.

You have three ranges of OS systems. For profit, closed source and proprietary (Apple), For profit and closed source (Windows) and completely free (Linux). Apple, is continually pulling technology away from open source systemologies and towards proprietary monopolistic empires that they control entirely. It's a BAD idea for all of us in the long run. I'm embarrassed to even still be on a Windows machine at this point and I plan to have this completely corrected by the end of 2012.

I understand your concern about the closed source/monopoly that is Apple, however from what I can tell, more and more software providers are given opportunities to provide applications for macs... If you go to the apple store you can find a plethora of Non-apple branded companies, whom i'm sure is sponsored by apple, but the list is growing... There are non-apple stores where you can upgrade/upspec your systems... You can upgrade stuff like Ram on Imacs and towers... It isn't as open as PC's are but shoot, for what I need and use, it's pretty darn close.

 

[Jettatore]

Good to know Awin, but that's not exactly why I am concerned.

When you are working with software (or an operating system which is also considered software), and no one can see what is going on behind the scenes with-in the code, it's not safe for your freedom, as a human being with rights including your rights to privacy. Microsoft is no champion in this regard and they are no great friend to open source methodologies either. Apple just happens to be slightly worse, because their closed source software on top of being closed source, only runs on hardware that ONLY they sell. This is a horrible idea long term, for all of us.

 

[well_dunno]

Hello,

This is my first post but I have been following the forums for a few months so firstly, greetings to you all!

I personally prefer laptops running windows and always install linux in a separate partition (I personally go with ubuntu but naturally a lot of other options are avaliable). Having windows feels convenient basically even though I do not use it frequently. Linux environment, just like mac, is free of malwares so you do not consume the resources of the computer on protecting it. Then most of the software available are under general public license and free. Also, most of the time, it is possible to find a program for any given purpose. Linux systems do require more expertise to manage in comparison to windows though.

Even if you prefer windows and something happens to it, you can run linux and get your files out (non-hardware failure situations naturally)...

Just my thoughts...

Cheers

 

[skitron]

Good to know Awin, but that's not exactly why I am concerned.

When you are working with software (or an operating system which is also considered software), and no one can see what is going on behind the scenes with-in the code, it's not safe for your freedom, as a human being with rights including your rights to privacy. Microsoft is no champion in this regard and they are no great friend to open source methodologies either. Apple just happens to be slightly worse, because their closed source software on top of being closed source, only runs on hardware that ONLY they sell. This is a horrible idea long term, for all of us.

Trust me, the only secure system is the one not connected to the net. The OS is irrelevant in this respect. I know because I write communications software. If you connect to the net, you'd better assume somebody somewhere can see your machine. Now chances are they won't be looking, that is unless you put reasons out there to make them want to. The point is, it's dirt easy and OS doesn't really matter.

 

[Jettatore]

Good to know Awin, but that's not exactly why I am concerned.

When you are working with software (or an operating system which is also considered software), and no one can see what is going on behind the scenes with-in the code, it's not safe for your freedom, as a human being with rights including your rights to privacy. Microsoft is no champion in this regard and they are no great friend to open source methodologies either. Apple just happens to be slightly worse, because their closed source software on top of being closed source, only runs on hardware that ONLY they sell. This is a horrible idea long term, for all of us.

Trust me, the only secure system is the one not connected to the net. The OS is irrelevant in this respect. I know because I write communications software. If you connect to the net, you'd better assume somebody somewhere can see your machine. Now chances are they won't be looking, that is unless you put reasons out there to make them want to. The point is, it's dirt easy and OS doesn't really matter.

You have absolutely no understanding of what I wrote there, or why I wrote it.

 

[Jettatore]

If you really require a further explanation. Let me put it this way. You aren't going to have to worry about securing your system while connected to the internet for privacy concerns, when the operating system you are using itself IS the privacy concern. This is not an issue when a large community of freely spoken people all have access to study the underlying (open source) code.

 

[te4o]

Wow, overnight three pages already!
I'd like to offer some detailed practical advice from personal experience:
Take a bare bones MBP 13 or better 15" (depending on portability preferences)
Go to macsales.com and max out the RAM for 50-80USD and buy a 60GB OWC SSD for start up disk.
From OWC buy a bracket for installing your Apple 500 Gb rotational HD into the DVD drive area and an enclosure for your existing DVD drive - around 15 USd each AFAIK
Buy a 4in1 Voyager and some 2 tb Hitachi internal HDs or whatever brand you like for back up over FW 800 or eSATA.

REINSTALL your OSX customized and Reduced size onto SSD. backup with Carbon Copy Cloner as a bootable disk partition on your external HD over Voyager.
Put all your photos and personal documents onto the big rotational HD. Backup over Time machine and exclude it from indexing.
Make a second backup on a second HD via CCC and take it into your office or to someone else.
The more data you have the more 2TB HD you need.
Make sure your downloads and libraries go onto the rotational HD otherwise the 60 GB SSD is stuck.
Enjoy.

 

[skitron]

If you really require a further explanation. Let me put it this way. You aren't going to have to worry about securing your system while connected to the internet for privacy concerns, when the operating system you are using itself IS the privacy concern. This is not an issue when a large community of freely spoken people all have access to study the underlying (open source) code.

Apparently you have no understanding of my reply above. I can assure you that an open source OS by itself does not mitigate your overall privacy concerns (well unless that is all you're planning on running on that machine...). The OS is but one avenue to breach security. There are plenty others and an open source OS isn't going to help one bit for those.

 

[Jettatore]

You're still not getting it. You're off having your own conversation that is an entirely different issue to what I have been describing, and I guess you're sticking to your guns on that, well have fun. *sticks fingers in ears, lalalallalala*

 

[briansquibb]

I used to be a hardcore PC guy but literally I could not save ANYTHING on the hard drive... because once a freaking virus hits... i'd lose all my photos... I got a back up hard drive that mirrored my C drive... My computer got a virus, guess what, my backup got the virus as well... and this is with norton and about 2 other antivirus sotfwares going... I had a second back up i'd drag and drop into... that was good but the instability and uncertainty of the PC killed my photography storage... I bought a cheap Mac Mini and ran PS and did what I needed off that until I had enough dough to pay for an IMAC... I am proud to say I've been virus free for nearly 4 years since the switch and haven't had to pay a penny for antivirus software... It's expensive but well worth the switch in the long run.

I have never had a virus on a PC in the 27 years I have been using them.

 

[Zuuyi]

@sct69 for your situation I would suggest a 13 inch Macbook Air. You said tons of travel, so it has to be ultra-light. Hard drive space is not a problem to you, so the SSD would be better for you. A 128GB 11inch might do the job too depending on screen size needs. I would try to add $100 to get up to the 256GB 13inch but that is currently out of your budget range.

I use a MacBook Pro as my laptop, but I do a lot less travel.

Go to MacSales.com for possible upgrades & MacRumors.com to make sure there isn't a new version being released tomorrow(figuratively).

@Jettatore - Linux isn't safe either. I have a web server, and every single hour I get an attempted attack, I have it locked down super tight so they are failed but they are attempted. OSX isn't as secure as people make out to be, but do to the limited user base there are Currently less attacks. Windows that's just a mess of attacks, if you don't protect yourself.

A computer connected to the web is NEVER secure. You are only as secure as your weakest link, the user. When users don't update OSes, anti-viruses, and other security softwares then you are at risk no matter the OS.

I have OSX 10.7 Laptop, Windows 7 Desktop, and Debian Server.

 

[EELinneman]

I used PCs for years and switched over at my then girlfriend (present wife's) urging. She had a 17" PowerBook for over 5 years. Any laptop that can stay usable over that length of time shows that it's a well built machine.

We now own a 2008 Macbook Pro (what this is being typed on), and 2009 Macbook, and a 2011 27" iMac quad i7.

I push for Apple for 2 reasons:

I need to use Windows-only software for geology modeling from time to time, and the stability of OS X vs Windows is night and day. That's both on a burly 5-gig dual core Dell running XP SP3 (which many consider to be the most stable Windows OS), and my Macbook Pro in bootcamp. Crashes? Weekly. Quirks? Constant.

The second, most recent reason I choose Apple is their customer service. Just last week I had the NVIDIA graphics card in my Macbook Pro die. This computer is just about 4 years old, but Apple replaced the logic board containing the card ($650 price tag) for free in a day. I don't have AppleCare or anything, but the card was a known issue.

I'm sure that exact same card is in millions of PCs doing the exact same thing. If a 4 year old Dell or HP or Samsung showed up dead do you think they'd replace the graphics card for free even if they knew it was a problem? I'd be surprised.

Basically, you can find identical components from PC to Mac. The choice is whether you can stand Windows OS (I'll never be able to go back!) and the build quality. Once you get into the higher-end PCs, the price difference can be negligible. The only real difference is in the really cheap ones.

 

[Jettatore]

Zuuyi. I'm not talking about that. That is a concern for every system type and I NEVER suggested otherwise contrary to your insinuation.

What I am talking about, is that YOU HAVE NO IDEA IF THERE IS MALICIOUS CODE BUILT INTO YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM AND SOFTWARE when it is closed source and you and the collective community of tech experts can't look at it....

 

[awinphoto]

I used to be a hardcore PC guy but literally I could not save ANYTHING on the hard drive... because once a freaking virus hits... i'd lose all my photos... I got a back up hard drive that mirrored my C drive... My computer got a virus, guess what, my backup got the virus as well... and this is with norton and about 2 other antivirus sotfwares going... I had a second back up i'd drag and drop into... that was good but the instability and uncertainty of the PC killed my photography storage... I bought a cheap Mac Mini and ran PS and did what I needed off that until I had enough dough to pay for an IMAC... I am proud to say I've been virus free for nearly 4 years since the switch and haven't had to pay a penny for antivirus software... It's expensive but well worth the switch in the long run.

I have never had a virus on a PC in the 27 years I have been using them.

Well you're machine must be one in a million... glad it's worked out for you while I work with my mac...

 

[EELinneman]

Long time viewer, short time member, first time topic poster.
I'm about to start a new job that will require me to travel & fly a fair bit. I am wanting to purchase a laptop to process my images on the run. I was wondering what would be your recommendations?
To date I really only post to the web. However I would like a screen that gives as true a colour representation as is possible in a laptop. (Can they be calibrated?). I would like to keep the cost under 1.5K, run PS and or LR. Hard drive space is not a major issue as removable drives are cheap enough these days. Do any of you process solely on a laptop or do you keep your image processing completely too your desktop?

You will want to find a laptop with an IPS display rather than the cheaper TFT type of LCD. This will give you a wider and more accurate color gamut. Plan on doing regular calibration with a Spyder or XRite device.

Rather than get into the religious war of Mac vs. PC vs. Open Source, focus on RAM, the IPS display and USB 3.0 connectivity if you can find all 3. I would also recommend a 3-2-1 storage approach - 3 copies of your picture, 2 on hard disks and 1 in the cloud - here you have a lot of choices. All hard disks can and eventually will fail. So, having multiple copies of hd backed up images will reduce the risk of loss. I work with very large, enterprise databases and we use redundancy to reduce the impact of disk loss. At home, I have a 4 drive OWC Raid 10 array as my primary storage for pictures and 3 additional copies. One person here mentioned fire damage and that should be taken into account. If you can keep a copy that is updated on a regular basis off premesis, then you further reduce that risk. Bear in mind there is no 100% safe solution, but you can make the risk very low for a reasonable cost.

Best of luck to you and let us know what you decide on.

 

[sct69]

OK so I see that overnight (I'm in Australia) I have really opened up a can of worms. Thank you everyone who has contributed to this post so far, it has been very interesting reading this morning ( 4 pages worth). As someone who is not as computer literate as many on here, I have been a little overwhelmed with information overload. But I take that as a good thing. It makes me think, consider various points of view, learn and in the end that is what I hoped this forum would provide. There a valid points of view supporting either version, though it seems so far in "laptop" world MAC are getting the nod.

 

[EELinneman]

Zuuyi. I'm not talking about that. That is a concern for every system type and I NEVER suggested otherwise contrary to your insinuation.

What I am talking about, is that YOU HAVE NO IDEA IF THERE IS MALICIOUS CODE BUILT INTO YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM AND SOFTWARE when it is closed source and you and the collective community of tech experts can't look at it....

Jettatore,

Can you provide a single instance of either Microsoft or Apple building malicious code in their operating systems. Note that a bug is not malicious code. I am sure you are aware that both Apple and Microsoft are subject to approval by the Feds for security standards. As part of that, their code is reviewed by others. Also, if there were malicious software as you put it, the legal field would be lunching on that forever. Offer some proof to this slanderous statement you made.

 

[skitron]

You're still not getting it. You're off having your own conversation that is an entirely different issue to what I have been describing, and I guess you're sticking to you're guns on that, well have fun. *sticks fingers in ears, lalalallalala*

Oh I get what you're saying, open source = safe and Microsoft Windows and Apple OS are the boogey-men, yadda, yadda.

Interestingly enough I don't really disagree with your premise and my point is more directed to how to deal with it. Personally, I'd rather starve the beast than cut off my nose to spite my face. For me that means using commercial OS and commercial apps but either not connecting to the net or never placing any information on the machine that has any value to them beyond product improvement.

And my the point is, going open source for your OS is not going to mitigate your concerns. If Microsoft and Apple decide to target Linux for data harvesting I can assure you they will be successful. Not as much as in their native OS, but again, there are any number of ways to do it other than native OS components subject to open source review.