Phottix Odin: Inaccuate high-ISO metering problem

[V8Beast]

Thanks for the kind words, fellas.

wombat, how well do the Odins interface with studio lights? I like the idea of controlling the power from the transmitter instead of having to walk over to the lights every time I want to adjust the power. That's one of the main reasons I picked them up, since I'm going to have to get some monolights sooner or later.

The Speedlites work great for run-and-gun shots like the ones posted above, but when attempting to light up the entire car (first shot), I had to turn the ISO up more than I wanted to for the desired results. For certain occaisions, I'd like a broader beam of light than what the Speedlites offer. With large subjects, there isn't much margin for error in this regard with the Speedlites.

 

[wickidwombat]

Thanks for the kind words, fellas.

wombat, how well do the Odins interface with studio lights? I like the idea of controlling the power from the transmitter instead of having to walk over to the lights every time I want to adjust the power. That's one of the main reasons I picked them up, since I'm going to have to get some monolights sooner or later.

The Speedlites work great for run-and-gun shots like the ones posted above, but when attempting to light up the entire car (first shot), I had to turn the ISO up more than I wanted to for the desired results. For certain occaisions, I'd like a broader beam of light than what the Speedlites offer. With large subjects, there isn't much margin for error in this regard with the Speedlites.

the odins dont control the studio light power they are pure manual
at least I dont think they do since they plug into the lights via a 3.5mm cable
I dont think there will be any smarts going down the line

i'll typically mix them and set it all in manual like use speedlights for accent lights like a hair light with a snoot or background lights when I am using the elinchroms as main lights. I've always just adjusted the studio lights on the flash head as I assumed the odin wont control the power and since the power settings are very different between speedlights and elinchrom studio lights speedlights have 1/3rd stop increments as a function of a fraction of their full power where as elinchrom studio lights have 1/10th stop increments from their minimum output up to their maximum output

I know elinchrom have the high end skyports with power control from the transmitter which works really well and an elinchrom reciever can be used with speedlights but again in this case the speedlights are dumb and only the elinchrom light recieve the benefit of the radio controlled power adjustment

 

[lucuias]

Odin is a superb ETTL wireless solution from portrait to wedding and events,it does had flaws when it 1st release,my 5Dmark III having overexposure issues when the flash head flip 180degree.But was fixed via firmware.
Nevertheless,I still had a couple of times miss connect issue between odin receiver and flash hot shoe.

Below were some of the shot using Phottix odin

 

[V8Beast]

the odins dont control the studio light power they are pure manual
at least I dont think they do since they plug into the lights via a 3.5mm cable
I dont think there will be any smarts going down the line

Good to know. Some control of the studio lights is still better than no control I doubt the 600EX would do much when it comes to controlling studio lights, either

 

[jonathan7007]

Re: Odin units and studio units
There are lots of situations where I might want lug the Norman gear to the shoot -- and then mix in a speedlite or two. For instance the speedlight at or near the camera could be the "fill-in" at a power setting below that of the key lights. (I know the Odin controller does not allow a "pass-through" speedlite on top)

I read that if any of the speedlites ar set for ETTL there is a preflash. If the studio power packs are triggered by optical slaves that would be a problem. But perhaps the users here are suggesting buying a Strato or another Odin receiver for the power packs...

My studio units are older Norman packs like the 2000D and an 808.

This was the only thing making me hold back for more research on the Phottix set. I *do* wish there was a pass-through fitting, as I don't think my current bracket for events will allow the Odin controller to fit under the top shoe that can move relative to the camera for horiz-to-vert shift. Might have to go back to the older side mount style...

jonathan7007

 

[lucuias]

Hi jonathan7007,
I have a solution for using Phottix odin while at the same time using another flash on body without using bracket .I did this myself for my wedding work.
1st ,get yourself a Nissin SC-01 Universal TTL cord http://www.nissindigital.com/SC-01.html
2nd, attach Nissin SC-01 Universal TTL cord on your body while phottix odin transmitter on the cord external hot shoe.
3rd, attach your flash light on phottix odin receiver.then attach it on the Nissin SC-01 universal TTL cord top shoue.
4th,keep the switch on Nissin SC-01 Universal TTL cord on EXT(external).

I hope this helps.I had been shooting a lot of wedding and event using this setup.It is always great to have on body flash as fill light while another off flash as key light/rim light.

However,lately the Nissin SC-01 giving me connectivity issue between the cord and my camera hot shoe.

 

[jonathan7007]

Ronnie,
I love multiple light candids like those examples in your posts. Thank you for your experimentation and, especially, for sharing the rig. It sounds like the key element of the Nissan cord is a switch for external use. I will research this gear.Side brackets with posts as handles or mounting of flash heads used to be in lots of camera store bins as used. Sometimes at yard sales! That would work to hold the Odin controller.

Do you mix any Strato receivers into the Odin setup?

Is there a preflash that would cause any issue with old-style "generic" optical triggers placed on a studio-style power pack?

I used to do a lot of this with pure optical triggers for editorial work. Had a kit of spring clamps, threaded clamps, magic-arms, hand-driven lag screws with 1/4-20 tops, a real do-everything little case. Lots of duct-tape, of course. I plan to be doing this for events, weddings, this year. I already do this (multiple speedlites) for vacation rental/RE shooting.

At this point I am planning on using 550's instead of a jump to 600's. I do have one 580ex, a bunch of Vivitar 285s that I will swap for used 550's.

Again thanks for posting

jonathan7007

 

[lucuias]

Ronnie,
I love multiple light candids like those examples in your posts. Thank you for your experimentation and, especially, for sharing the rig. It sounds like the key element of the Nissan cord is a switch for external use. I will research this gear.Side brackets with posts as handles or mounting of flash heads used to be in lots of camera store bins as used. Sometimes at yard sales! That would work to hold the Odin controller.

Do you mix any Strato receivers into the Odin setup?

Is there a preflash that would cause any issue with old-style "generic" optical triggers placed on a studio-style power pack?

I used to do a lot of this with pure optical triggers for editorial work. Had a kit of spring clamps, threaded clamps, magic-arms, hand-driven lag screws with 1/4-20 tops, a real do-everything little case. Lots of duct-tape, of course. I plan to be doing this for events, weddings, this year. I already do this (multiple speedlites) for vacation rental/RE shooting.

At this point I am planning on using 550's instead of a jump to 600's. I do have one 580ex, a bunch of Vivitar 285s that I will swap for used 550's.

Again thanks for posting

jonathan7007

Hi Jonathan,

I just slip the Odin controller in vest pocket.No I do not mix with Strato on my wedding work but I did once on Portrait shoot with my friend's Strato,it works just fine.
After owns odin,I didn't use pure optical triggers.Thus,no comment on that.

Here are another shot with this setup and it works just great

 

[jonathan7007]

Love it! That key-light-to-the-side look (with appropriate fill) is EXACTLY why I want that kind of rig. Now I see why the Odin controller was "loose" on its wire in the shot you posted earlier. Now all I need is a low-cost two-legged light stand to hold the high-key light at events! B&H carry those? Aaaah, shipping to Hawaii is too high...

I used to do this stuff with just optical and quick math (square and square root) reflexes. Too old now for those quick reflexes. <grin>.

jonathan7007

 

[V8Beast]

More love for the Odins. Strongly back-lit subjects always threw the infrared Canon flash triggering off, but with the Odins, shooting straight into the sun is no problem.

This is far from a great shot, but I love the convenience of being able to adjust the backlight and fill in groups independently, right at the camera, without having to manually re-adjust the flashes. It's a great way to make an otherwise boring shot not quite as boring

 

[jonathan7007]

I love the tones created on the station wagon's left side because the darker reflection stops at the chrome trim line. Also no lightsource reflection on car side. Local airport, looks like. Borrow an old funky Cessna to see the styling overlaps?

...just got my Odins. no chance to use yet. Might make my dirty pickup truck the first subject, or better yet convince my neighbor to take out his late forties International pickup. I expect that one reason you don't shoot in fields is the shadows of grass or other artifact of "nature".

Got one 550EX unit and will get back to adding more. Still a believer in putting the $$ saved (vs. 600's) into other gear.
jonathan7007

 

[V8Beast]

The wagon was shot right outside a police station. I had the owner smoke the tires earlier in the afternoon, and the officers didn't even come out to say hello It's definitely more an exception than the rule.

It's easy enough to work around the reflections you'd get from shooting on grass or in a field, but my reason for not doing so is more simple. People drive cars on pavement, so I like to capture them in their natural environment. Of course, if the subject is a truck or off-road vehicle, it makes sense to shoot them off road.

 

[jonathan7007]

Yeah, I see the "context" choice. Makes sense. I was imagining more a *shadow* problem from vegetation because you often place lights low, but yes, there's the reflection issues caused whenever there's a shiny object in a shot... like a car!

This wagon looks like it's coiled for a leap. Lowered and all.

Your shots inspired me to hand my card to a guy driving a bright red, beautifully-restored Chevy 42 pickup -- bringing his greenwaste to the recycle operation here on our island. Told him I had just decided earlier today to start shooting great cars and I considered it a good omen I had run into such a good vehicle within a couple hours of such a decision. Amazing that he uses it for hauling brush, although, how cool is that? The original farm owner would be proud that it still does honest work.

Part of the reason is that I like fun lighting challenges. Unless you open an office out here in the middle of the Pacific we won't be competing. Keep up the good work back there on the mainland.

jonathan7007

 

[Viggo]

More love for the Odins. Strongly back-lit subjects always threw the infrared Canon flash triggering off, but with the Odins, shooting straight into the sun is no problem.

This is far from a great shot, but I love the convenience of being able to adjust the backlight and fill in groups independently, right at the camera, without having to manually re-adjust the flashes. It's a great way to make an otherwise boring shot not quite as boring

The light really lifts the image, care to share your setup for this shot, number of lights and what sorts of modifiers do you use?

The reason I ask is because I saw some similar types of shots and it was listed as bare bulb flash, and I couldn't work how one gets soft light from a small bare buld speedlite (unless bounced at least)

 

[V8Beast]

Yeah, I see the "context" choice. Makes sense. I was imagining more a *shadow* problem from vegetation because you often place lights low, but yes, there's the reflection issues caused whenever there's a shiny object in a shot... like a car!

This wagon looks like it's coiled for a leap. Lowered and all.

Your shots inspired me to hand my card to a guy driving a bright red, beautifully-restored Chevy 42 pickup -- bringing his greenwaste to the recycle operation here on our island. Told him I had just decided earlier today to start shooting great cars and I considered it a good omen I had run into such a good vehicle within a couple hours of such a decision. Amazing that he uses it for hauling brush, although, how cool is that? The original farm owner would be proud that it still does honest work.

Part of the reason is that I like fun lighting challenges. Unless you open an office out here in the middle of the Pacific we won't be competing. Keep up the good work back there on the mainland.

jonathan7007

That's great to hear. Our man wickidwombat also started shooting cars and has already produced some great work. Be sure to share with us as the automotive gigs roll in.

 

[V8Beast]

The light really lifts the image, care to share your setup for this shot, number of lights and what sorts of modifiers do you use?

The reason I ask is because I saw some similar types of shots and it was listed as bare bulb flash, and I couldn't work how one gets soft light from a small bare buld speedlite (unless bounced at least)

No light modifiers were used in either shot, not even the flappy doohickey built into the Speedlight. Just by angling and positioning the flashes just right, you can get some surprisingly soft light from them even when they're pointed at metal. Of course, the light would be softer still by bouncing it off a reflector or using a softbox, but that can yield light that's too flat for my liking. That approach can still net very pleasing results if you opt for a more aggressive contrast curve in post, but it wasn't the look I was going for. There's also quite a bit of ambient light in both shots. The flashes primarily serve as accent and fill light, more so for the second shot than the first one.

The light from the flashes looks deceivingly soft in the overall shot of the car because some hot spots were removed in post. In the shot of the plane/hood ornament, there's a backlight to right of the plane's right wing, angled toward the center of the plane, and a fill light pointed at the plane's left wing. I forget the exact ratio, but I want to say that the backlight was set to put out twice the output as the fill light. If I turned off the fill, the shadow would have been much harsher, thereby making the light look harsher as well. Turn off the backlight while keeping the fill on, and the image would look flat and boring as hell, which is a bad thing when the subject isn't that interesting to begin with

 

[Viggo]

Thanks a lot!

 

[V8Beast]

No prob. All it takes is practice, and the great thing about digital is that practicing is free.