popup-flash - made a "pro feature"?

[Pitbullo]

We have all seen the discussions, about why popup-flash is left out on the pro bodies from Canon. Those in favour of leaving it out says it is because it can break, and it is not a "pro feature". Those in favour of a popup-flash on the other hand just say, if you dont like it, dont use it, but it is great for a fill-in, it has its place.


Now, lets say those against the popup-flash are right, and we all have to sell our equipment and find another hobby if Canon implements them in their pro bodies. ;D
What can Canon do to make the popup more attractive? Why dont they make a popup-flash into a "pro" popup? Any ideas? One thing I like with my wifes NEX-6 is that it can be directed upwards and be bounced. Is this something for Canon?

All ideas are welcome, what would make a popup/integrated flash a "pro" style flash?

 

[Lee Jay]

Integrated optical remote master, integrated radio master too, HSS, and the ability to tip/tilt the thing for a bit of bounce.

 

[Pitbullo]

I totally agree with the optical master. Too bad the speedlites dont have this feature. Would be nice to have.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

How hard would it be to make the pop-up flash IR only? Or perhaps have a built in IR filter one can flip on and off?

 

[dancook]

Isn't a point about pop up flash and articulating screens not being on pro cameras because it affects sealing, and sealing is deemed more important than these features for pros?

maybe

 

[bseitz234]

Um, is it just me, or aren't canon's popup flashes already optical masters? I don't think they'd add a popup flash to the 5d4 and remove that capability....

IMO "pro" would be radio master, but that doesn't require a flash. That can just be built into the body. At this point, any pros who haven't gone to the radio system are probably pretty well invested in the optical system, and have a master that works for them, I don't think adding a built-in master would add a whole lot of appeal. Heck, I usually use a 580 as a master anyway, it's got better range and can do HSS, which the 7d popup can't.

What else could they do? Make it waterproof, so it doesn't compromise weather sealing at all? I can't see any way they can make it as powerful as a 430, but that would help...

 

[Loswr]

We have all seen the discussions, about why popup-flash is left out on the pro bodies from Canon. Those in favour of leaving it out says it is because it can break, and it is not a "pro feature".

Is the 6D a 'pro body'?

IMO, it's a marketing decision. Canon wants your money. FF bodies (from Canon) don't have a popup flash. FF bodies cost more. Canon figures if you need a flash and can afford a FF body, you can afford a Speedlite.

 

[Lee Jay]

Um, is it just me, or aren't canon's popup flashes already optical masters?

Some are.

IMO "pro" would be radio master, but that doesn't require a flash.

But it would be nice to have both, which was my point.

That can just be built into the body. At this point, any pros who haven't gone to the radio system are probably pretty well invested in the optical system, and have a master that works for them, I don't think adding a built-in master would add a whole lot of appeal.

It does for me, specifically so that I don't have to "waste" a flash on the camera when I'm not using it to light the subject. One less large flash to own and to carry.

 

[Pitbullo]

We have all seen the discussions, about why popup-flash is left out on the pro bodies from Canon. Those in favour of leaving it out says it is because it can break, and it is not a "pro feature".

Is the 6D a 'pro body'?

IMO, it's a marketing decision. Canon wants your money. FF bodies (from Canon) don't have a popup flash. FF bodies cost more. Canon figures if you need a flash and can afford a FF body, you can afford a Speedlite.

The 6D is pro in the sense that it is full frame, demanding EF-lenses. Which sure sell at pro prices

If it is a marketing descition, it sure is not a good one (IMHO). Portability is more and more an argument being used, with all the mirrorless cameras making their entry into the full frame market (Sony). Lugging around a speedlite in adition to a big dSLR is... annoying. Yet another thing to bring along.

I think it would be wise to implement a popup flash in the 5D4 (and/or 1DxII), and make it special, not just a simple popup. Like others have said, HSS, flip/tilt functionality etc.

 

[Pitbullo]

Isn't a point about pop up flash and articulating screens not being on pro cameras because it affects sealing, and sealing is deemed more important than these features for pros?

maybe

I am sure they can overcome this if they want to. Others have!

 

[TexPhoto]

One reason "pro" cameras don't have it, is the prism in the pro camera is generally much larger. Looking through my 5DIII and then my 7D, is like going from a 60 inch HDTV to walmart laptop screen.

If you look at the bump that is under the pop-up flash you will realize how small the prism is in there, vs a "pro" camera. Of couse you could put a large pup-up on a pro camera, but it might look so large and bulbus as to be silly.

All that said, I like the pop-up on my 7D and use it from time to time.

 

[Pitbullo]

One reason "pro" cameras don't have it, is the prism in the pro camera is generally much larger. Looking through my 5DIII and then my 7D, is like going from a 60 inch HDTV to walmart laptop screen.

If you look at the bump that is under the pop-up flash you will realize how small the prism is in there, vs a "pro" camera. Of couse you could put a large pup-up on a pro camera, but it might look so large and bulbus as to be silly.

All that said, I like the pop-up on my 7D and use it from time to time.

The VF is a good reason for not putting a popup. Perhaps they could put the flash on some other part of the body? On one of the sides for instance?(to the left for the "bulk".

 

[Loswr]

One reason "pro" cameras don't have it, is the prism in the pro camera is generally much larger. Looking through my 5DIII and then my 7D, is like going from a 60 inch HDTV to walmart laptop screen.

If you look at the bump that is under the pop-up flash you will realize how small the prism is in there, vs a "pro" camera. Of couse you could put a large pup-up on a pro camera, but it might look so large and bulbus as to be silly.

To me, the explanation of the size of the pentaprism doesn't make a lot of sense... Compare these two full frame cameras:

5DIII viewfinder = 100% coverage at 0.71x
D810 viewfinder = 100% coverage at 0.70x

 

[pdirestajr]

I've seen Joe McNally use a pop up flash as an optical trigger. He is a professional photographer. Cameras aren't professionals

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

It does seem to boil down to marketing, or the chief designers idea of when and where to add a flash.

Certainly, a flash reduces overall camera reliability, they are probably the most common failure I see on used DSLR's, but that's not really a good enough excuse.

On a 1 series body where weather resistance is a prime factor, a flash will likely not happen, but on a wedding camera like a 5D MK III, there is no real excuse except marketing or design philosophy. I think its the latter, because a $2 built-in flash would return its costs in sales.

 

[David Hull]

Isn't a point about pop up flash and articulating screens not being on pro cameras because it affects sealing, and sealing is deemed more important than these features for pros?

maybe

That's what I always thought their reasoning to be. But I think beyond that, they more or less expect that the people who buy those expensive, fancy bodies also have expensive, fancy lighting equipment (high end speedlights, strobes, etc.).

I remember going to a Canon event and asking this same question and the demo guy took the 1D and 5D, separated the out and said "these are our pro cameras" they don't have PU flash because we don't consider that to be a pro feature". FWIW, he said exactly the same thing at that same time regarding Auto ISO which now DOES appear in those cameras so -- go figure .

 

[9VIII]

Direct light coming off the camera is horrendous.
I honestly can't think of a useful way to use a pop-up flash (other than blinding people in dark rooms so that you can run away).

 

[Loswr]

Direct light coming off the camera is horrendous.
I honestly can't think of a useful way to use a pop-up flash (other than blinding people in dark rooms so that you can run away).

Fill flash?

 

[Pitbullo]

Direct light coming off the camera is horrendous.
I honestly can't think of a useful way to use a pop-up flash (other than blinding people in dark rooms so that you can run away).

Bounce it off the celing?

 

[agierke]

Direct light coming off the camera is horrendous.
I honestly can't think of a useful way to use a pop-up flash (other than blinding people in dark rooms so that you can run away).

Fill flash?

It's still the worst place for light to come from regardless if its the primary light source or fill. In every conceivable circumstance i would want my fill coming from off camera..even if its slightly off axis.

To me pop up flash doesnt belong on the pro bodies simply because of the location in which the light is coming from (directly above lens). The optical master argument is a thin one, every flash is an optical master (which is the problem with optical triggering...you cant prevent other sources from triggering your strobes).

Would having a pop up flash on the 5d or 1dx bother me even if I never used it? Yes. Those things inevitably and stupidly seem to end up popping up on their own causing distraction and getting in the way.

Count me firmly in the camp of pop up flash hater.