popup-flash - made a "pro feature"?

[benperrin]

Another user here that is firmly in the camp of don't put a pop-up flash on my camera. Even for fill there are better alternatives.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

We have all seen the discussions, about why popup-flash is left out on the pro bodies from Canon. Those in favour of leaving it out says it is because it can break, and it is not a "pro feature". Those in favour of a popup-flash on the other hand just say, if you dont like it, dont use it, but it is great for a fill-in, it has its place.


Now, lets say those against the popup-flash are right, and we all have to sell our equipment and find another hobby if Canon implements them in their pro bodies. ;D
What can Canon do to make the popup more attractive? Why dont they make a popup-flash into a "pro" popup? Any ideas? One thing I like with my wifes NEX-6 is that it can be directed upwards and be bounced. Is this something for Canon?

All ideas are welcome, what would make a popup/integrated flash a "pro" style flash?

All ideas may be welcome, but the correct idea is BRING IT ON!!!! pop-up for the pros!

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Direct light coming off the camera is horrendous.
I honestly can't think of a useful way to use a pop-up flash (other than blinding people in dark rooms so that you can run away).

a little fill? happen upon a tree frog at night while walking back? etc.

 

[dgatwood]

photography quite literally translates to "writing with light". understanding quality of light and how to manipulate it is paramount for professional photography. a pop up flash is so far on the other side of desirable that its hard to put into words. put it this way...once one is introduced to lighting, lesson #1 is get the light off the camera.

In a professional shooting situation, you'd probably never use one, but most folks don't use their cameras exclusively for pro photo shoots. Which brings us to lesson #2.

Lesson #2 is that the best light is the one you have with you.... So even though pop-up flashes suck compared with dedicated flashes, if they're all you have with you at the time, they're still better than nothing. A lot better.

 

[Lee Jay]

It's still the worst place for light to come from regardless if its the primary light source or fill.

If that were true, no one would use ring lights. But they do.

when a ring light is used the light is coming from top, bottom, right and left of the lens position creating a unique look entirely different than the look from a pop up flash. you cant be serious with that post...

Frankly, I think popups look better. Ring lights give people that look of being an alien because of that donut shaped catch light.

I have umbrellas, off camera flashes and modifiers, and I still think an on-camera flash is often better than no flash for controlling scene contrast and adding a natural looking catch light. I even added a tiny hot-shoe mounted flash to my 5D because of the missing popup. But it's a pain and not as consistent in illumination level as the popup on my crop camera.

 

[Loswr]

Has Canon ever released a larger-sensor-than-APS-C dSLR with a popup flash? The pipe dreams of a few nostalgic APS-H lovers notwithstanding, the 7DII will be APS-C. Has Canon ever released an APS-C dSLR without a popup flash?

 

[dgatwood]

Of course, if one is a corporate shill like the Samsung rep I encountered yesterday, corporate knows best, end users should compliantly and placidly accept corporate edicts with no question.

Samsung has reps?

Regardless, the point of the thread is to suggest that Canon omits the popup flash from 'pro bodies', and my point is that Canon (at least, one of their major divisions) doesn't consider the 6D to be a pro body, yet it lacks a popup flash.

It counts towards CPS. As far as I'm concerned, that makes it a pro body.

Frankly, I think popups look better. Ring lights give people that look of being an alien because of that donut shaped catch light.

I never would have even thought of using one except for macro work. Yeah, those are seriously weird looking....

 

[Don Haines]

Has Canon ever released an APS-C dSLR without a popup flash?

EOS-M

 

[Loswr]

Regardless, the point of the thread is to suggest that Canon omits the popup flash from 'pro bodies', and my point is that Canon (at least, one of their major divisions) doesn't consider the 6D to be a pro body, yet it lacks a popup flash.

It counts towards CPS. As far as I'm concerned, that makes it a pro body.

So does the 60Da. Are the EF 50mm f/2.5 Compact Macro and EF-S 17-85mm 'pro lenses'? :

Actually, in the EU the 6D is only good for CPS Silver, it does not count for the higher levels.

 

[Loswr]

Has Canon ever released an APS-C dSLR without a popup flash?

EOS-M

Care to try again? Or maybe Canon left the Reflex mirror (that thing that's the 'R' in dSLR) out of my EOS-M by accident...does yours have one?

 

[Don Haines]

Has Canon ever released an APS-C dSLR without a popup flash?

EOS-M

Care to try again? Or maybe Canon left the Reflex mirror (that thing that's the 'R' in dSLR) out of my EOS-M by accident...does yours have one?

That's why the smiley face.... I think the EOS-M is as close as they have come....

 

[Lee Jay]

Frankly, I think popups look better. Ring lights give people that look of being an alien because of that donut shaped catch light.

I never would have even thought of using one except for macro work. Yeah, those are seriously weird looking....

Seriously. (Not mine).

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/jaylightphotography/6383548691/

 

[9VIII]

Yes Neuro, fill flash does sound like the one and only thing that you could legitimately do with an on camera flash (I don't even think cameras should have a hot-shoe).
That said, of the few lighting tutorials I've seen, pretty much all of them do nothing but drill into your brain that PUF is bad.

The RT is out, it's amazing, why look back?

Now, to those who say pop-up flashes are terrible, there is a nice solution called the Lightscoop (you can Google it).

I think a key point can be drawn here. You have a solution, but having a solution by definition means having a problem (unless you're in government). The pop up flash is inherently a problem.

It's still the worst place for light to come from regardless if its the primary light source or fill.

If that were true, no one would use ring lights. But they do.

I thought ring lights were for macro stuff where the subject is virtually pressed against the lens and just getting any light on it can be a challenge?

 

[9VIII]

Surapon your post is still awesome, I'm definitely going to be throwing napkins and stuff on people's cameras in future.

 

[sagittariansrock]

Now, to those who say pop-up flashes are terrible, there is a nice solution called the Lightscoop (you can Google it).

I think a key point can be drawn here. You have a solution, but having a solution by definition means having a problem (unless you're in government). The pop up flash is inherently a problem.

Oh, I agree it's a problem. I used it a handful of times when I had APS-C cameras, even when I didn't have Speedlites. The only time I used my 7D pop-up flash after that was to trigger the optical slave.
But, it is better than nothing. And the Lightscoop makes it actually usable.

 

[Sporgon]

Has Canon ever released a larger-sensor-than-APS-C dSLR with a popup flash? The pipe dreams of a few nostalgic APS-H lovers notwithstanding, the 7DII will be APS-C. Has Canon ever released an APS-C dSLR without a popup flash?

There's always a first time. Bring on the 7DII

 

[Lawliet]

I thought ring lights were for macro stuff where the subject is virtually pressed against the lens and just getting any light on it can be a challenge?

Have you ever looked at studio strobes? You get ringlights from all brands, and they aren't excactly useable for macro work.

 

[9VIII]

I thought ring lights were for macro stuff where the subject is virtually pressed against the lens and just getting any light on it can be a challenge?

Have you ever looked at studio strobes? You get ringlights from all brands, and they aren't excactly useable for macro work.

I think you're talking about something that falls under the category of "off camera flash" much better than "on camera flash" which is the subject of this thread.

 

[Lee Jay]

I thought ring lights were for macro stuff where the subject is virtually pressed against the lens and just getting any light on it can be a challenge?

Have you ever looked at studio strobes? You get ringlights from all brands, and they aren't excactly useable for macro work.

I think you're talking about something that falls under the category of "off camera flash" much better than "on camera flash" which is the subject of this thread.

On-camera.

http://www.paulcbuff.com/abr800.php

 

[Joe M]

I doubt the popup flash could ever be made into something that could be called "pro" or at the very least, " lighting of not last resort". I admit there are gizmos out there that claim to make the light better (by scattering it to the winds) but it will always be something of last resort to most. To make it "pro", you'd need to increase the area greatly, popup much much higher, swivel it, and increase the battery size immensely (if you were to use it to any degree other than for, you guessed it, a few shots of last resort.
I used the popup on the 7d a few times to optically trigger some 580s I had at the time. So that's where my thoughts come from, is that I personally did not find any use for the popups as flashes. Others may but I have no issues with Canon leaving them off the 5 series.