Preorder: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV DSLR Camera with Canon Log

[foo]

So apparently C-Log rates for getting its own standalone SKU. I'll read that again -- a slightly differently hardwared body is getting its own SKU.

Have you ever worked in a manufacturing environment? I have..

Different SKU's get used for all sorts of reasons, trivial ones like you're selling the exact same hardware to France vs Spain and the different SKU is to identify that the language setting is different.

There will already be different SKU's due to differing Wifi regulations in different countries,

Then there's the question of whether you're talking about the SKU for the camera body alone, or the one for the kit including the manuals, chargers, cables etc. Does the body-only kit have the same SKU as the one that includes a kit lens? If so, how do you tell them apart?

 

[Ozarker]

Those Rumors really killed this "update" for me honestly.. :/ and that's tough for me to say. I've been so patient with Canon while everyone was jumping ship to Sony and still Canon hasn't brought anything significant or major to compete.. Even Nikon is now supposedly making a camera to raise the bar now.. I understand Canon makes a very reliable camera but the sheer lack of image quality always has me feeling left behind.. The mark 4 is truly 5-10 steps better than the Mark 3 no doubt in my mind, but still remains 10 steps behind Sony when coming to the quality, dynamic range and sharpness.

I feel like if Canon really wanted to take over they would just increase the quality on every camera they have down the whole lineup so that no other camera becomes obsolete to the other.

I guess it really might be time to switch Never thought this day would come

What quality do you mean? Overheating and crappy weather sealing are signs of good quality?
Sharpness? Is 50Mpx/noAA of the 5DsR not sharp enough?
DR? Would you mind to post a sample that's not possible to take with a Canon camera due to insufficient DR?

Come on man, lets be honest here.. I've shot with Canon for the last 5 years and having said that I would still be willing to carry an extra battery or two in order to maintain higher image quality/sharper image/more detail in the shadows. I understand the Sony menu sucks, I understand the battery drains faster, and I understand that the Sony will fall apart in the rain/cold weather.. But at the end of the day it's a tool that offers me more image quality. I really wanted to like my 5D4 but It's just reliable... And that's about it.

You are right. Better battery life, better weather sealing, better menus, and better reliability are way overrated.

Sharper image? Uhhhhhhhhh.... :

 

[foo]

How they are going to update it in the future? Maintaining two separate versions for the regular mk4 and mk4C? It could be something else besides firmware...

Was wondering about that myself. I suppose some version specific firmware could cover that, but one would think the C-Log magic is in *that* firmware as well. That would imply every firmware update to the C-Log version of the body -- for the life of the product -- would need to go back into the shop, wouldn't it?

1) How did this work on prior Canon-installed-only firmware tweaks? Is the firmware secretly partitioned in a way that you can drop general firmware updates on top of it without scrubbing the costly secret sauce that was in there before?

You're assuming that there's only one device in there that has firmware. It could be secondary firmware on a seperate device. It could be something that needs a JTAG cable or some other piece of hardware connected to the camera before it can be accessed.

You do also realise that you can partition the hard drive in your PC, or put a second one in it, so that when you need to re-install windows you don't lose the data on the other partition / drive? You shouldn't expect the camera to be different in this regard, at a simplistic level it's just an embedded computer specialised for use in the camera.

 

[ahsanford]

So apparently C-Log rates for getting its own standalone SKU. I'll read that again -- a slightly differently hardwared body is getting its own SKU.

Have you ever worked in a manufacturing environment? I have..

I do presently, actually, but not with electronics -- where I understand this is commonly done for power/communications reasons.

Then there's the question of whether you're talking about the SKU for the camera body alone, or the one for the kit including the manuals, chargers, cables etc. Does the body-only kit have the same SKU as the one that includes a kit lens? If so, how do you tell them apart?

I'd presume it would just be listed one-level deeper in the bill of materials that makes up the upper-level final carton'd catalog item. But we can't really see that, can we... Perhaps it's in the manual, or in a summary of 'what's in the box' at the B&H or Canon website?

Pan up in the thread, I've been corrected by PBD above. Looks like this is firmware only -- but Canon installed firmware only -- which implies this may be the same physical body coming off the line with two different firmware type/versions involved. Whether Canon wants to inventory the aforementioned lower-level body-only item in two configurations or not is up to them. They might do it for convenience, they might not do it to simplify their inventory to be more flexibly applied to either need as the market evolves.

- A

 

[WeekendWarrior]

JUST reliable? Ummm I'd take reliable over any other attribute. Least you know it won't let you down when it matters most - when actually taking pictures! What use is a camera that doesn't work?

I've said a few times; a camera with a dead battery has zero features. And no image quality. (Film cameras aside .
Same goes for one that is malfunctioning.

Lol you're getting so defensive over there it's funny. My buddy shoots for Adidas with a A7R2 and only goes through about 2-3 batteries a day.. Try again

 

[WeekendWarrior]

Those Rumors really killed this "update" for me honestly.. :/ and that's tough for me to say. I've been so patient with Canon while everyone was jumping ship to Sony and still Canon hasn't brought anything significant or major to compete.. Even Nikon is now supposedly making a camera to raise the bar now.. I understand Canon makes a very reliable camera but the sheer lack of image quality always has me feeling left behind.. The mark 4 is truly 5-10 steps better than the Mark 3 no doubt in my mind, but still remains 10 steps behind Sony when coming to the quality, dynamic range and sharpness.

I feel like if Canon really wanted to take over they would just increase the quality on every camera they have down the whole lineup so that no other camera becomes obsolete to the other.

I guess it really might be time to switch Never thought this day would come

What quality do you mean? Overheating and crappy weather sealing are signs of good quality?
Sharpness? Is 50Mpx/noAA of the 5DsR not sharp enough?
DR? Would you mind to post a sample that's not possible to take with a Canon camera due to insufficient DR?

Come on man, lets be honest here.. I've shot with Canon for the last 5 years and having said that I would still be willing to carry an extra battery or two in order to maintain higher image quality/sharper image/more detail in the shadows. I understand the Sony menu sucks, I understand the battery drains faster, and I understand that the Sony will fall apart in the rain/cold weather.. But at the end of the day it's a tool that offers me more image quality. I really wanted to like my 5D4 but It's just reliable... And that's about it.

Let's be honest indeed. I don't think Sony menu sucks, it's just different. Shooting Sony cameras also about 5 years I don't see any problem there. I don't really understand what did you mean by higher image quality/sharper image. DR alone doesn't make better image. Any sensor made after 2008 paired with a great lens will deliver a great result. The rest depends on shooting technique (light, composition, common sense) and processing technique. If you are NOT trolling, please post a picture you've taken with a Canon camera, and tell us what exactly you don't like. If you ARE trolling, please disregard my request

If you get a Sony a7R2 photo and downscale it to the resolution of the 5D4, the Sony will still retain more sharpness and fine detail. And it KILLLLLLS me to say that... I waited so long for the 5D4 to come out and I love everything about it.... Except the image quality. There's no trolling from this end, just disappointment

 

[Jopa]

How they are going to update it in the future? Maintaining two separate versions for the regular mk4 and mk4C? It could be something else besides firmware...

Was wondering about that myself. I suppose some version specific firmware could cover that, but one would think the C-Log magic is in *that* firmware as well. That would imply every firmware update to the C-Log version of the body -- for the life of the product -- would need to go back into the shop, wouldn't it?

1) How did this work on prior Canon-installed-only firmware tweaks? Is the firmware secretly partitioned in a way that you can drop general firmware updates on top of it without scrubbing the costly secret sauce that was in there before?

2) Are we sure it's just firmware? :

- A

LOL. If you post this pic on a camera geek magazine, some people actually may try to disassemble their mk4's to find those dip switches.

I think you're right - they may have a boot loader for the firmware and rely on some marks / modifications in it. Or maybe even a serial number range for those new models. If we see one firmware package (which is likely), it should contain the C-Log code as well. Maybe one day someone will figure out how to trick it for the regular models...

 

[WeekendWarrior]

Let's be honest indeed. I don't think Sony menu sucks, it's just different. Shooting Sony cameras also about 5 years I don't see any problem there. I don't really understand what did you mean by higher image quality/sharper image. DR alone doesn't make better image. Any sensor made after 2008 paired with a great lens will deliver a great result. The rest depends on shooting technique (light, composition, common sense) and processing technique. If you are NOT trolling, please post a picture you've taken with a Canon camera, and tell us what exactly you don't like. If you ARE trolling, please disregard my request

Jopa, you don't understand -- he/she wants north of 36 MP AND the ability to horrifically underexpose an image and push it 5 stops in post.

You know, like any reasonable person would want. :

- A

Or just a 5D4 with good quality but I guess that was just too much to ask of Canon from a $3500 camera lol

 

[WeekendWarrior]

I've been so patient with Canon while everyone was jumping ship to Sony

You do realize that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, right? Sucks when reality punches your argument in the face, doesn't it?

I guess it really might be time to switch

Well, if you play with the contrast and saturation, the grass really can be greaner.

Bye.

Lol I can taste the salt in your comment. Must suck to be upset all the time eh?

 

[Loswr]

I've been so patient with Canon while everyone was jumping ship to Sony

You do realize that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, right? Sucks when reality punches your argument in the face, doesn't it?

I guess it really might be time to switch

Well, if you play with the contrast and saturation, the grass really can be greaner.

Bye.

Lol I can taste the salt in your comment. Must suck to be upset all the time eh?

Nice job ignoring the facts that refute your statements.

 

[Ozarker]

Let's be honest indeed. I don't think Sony menu sucks, it's just different. Shooting Sony cameras also about 5 years I don't see any problem there. I don't really understand what did you mean by higher image quality/sharper image. DR alone doesn't make better image. Any sensor made after 2008 paired with a great lens will deliver a great result. The rest depends on shooting technique (light, composition, common sense) and processing technique. If you are NOT trolling, please post a picture you've taken with a Canon camera, and tell us what exactly you don't like. If you ARE trolling, please disregard my request

Jopa, you don't understand -- he/she wants north of 36 MP AND the ability to horrifically underexpose an image and push it 5 stops in post.

You know, like any reasonable person would want. :

- A

Or just a 5D4 with good quality but I guess that was just too much to ask of Canon from a $3500 camera lol

So, you dropped $3,500 on a camera you could have rented to see whether or not it met your needs. Why don't you post some pics with the exif data still attached? I'd like to see the poor IQ from a properly exposed photo with good glass attached.

 

[transpo1]

I've been so patient with Canon while everyone was jumping ship to Sony

You do realize that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, right? Sucks when reality punches your argument in the face, doesn't it?

I guess it really might be time to switch

Well, if you play with the contrast and saturation, the grass really can be greaner.

Bye.

But Sony FF sales are looking promising. First Nikon, then Canon? Canon owns reliability but Sony is generating excitement.

https://petapixel.com/2017/04/14/sony-now-2-u-s-full-frame-interchangeable-lens-cameras/

 

[Ozarker]

I've been so patient with Canon while everyone was jumping ship to Sony

You do realize that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, right? Sucks when reality punches your argument in the face, doesn't it?

I guess it really might be time to switch

Well, if you play with the contrast and saturation, the grass really can be greaner.

Bye.

But Sony FF sales are looking promising. First Nikon, then Canon? Canon owns reliability but Sony is generating excitement.

https://petapixel.com/2017/04/14/sony-now-2-u-s-full-frame-interchangeable-lens-cameras/

Well, if I sold one camera last year and then sell two cameras this year... my sales have doubled. As far as the market contracting if Sony wasn't in the business? Nope. Buyers would have just bought something else.

Sony generating excitement? :

 

[Talys]

To me, the most obvious reason for Canon having an extra SKU is simply that it allows them to charge more for CLOG out of the box. Some people who want CLOG would pay more for CLOG pre-installed, even if the upgrade were free but required a visit to the Canon centre. That might be because there's no Canon centre nearby, because it's not worth their time (if it's a corporate device, for instance), because they're impatient and want their new toy NOW, or because $300 just isn't that important to them one way or the other.

Heck, some people would pay more for CLOG preinstalled, even if you could download it and install it yourself for free. You see that all the time in PCs.

In terms of inventory at local camera shops, I think that isn't a problem. Most camera shops aren't going to have more than one or two 5D4 on hand anyways, because it's not like they're going to sell three of these in a day on most days. They can almost always get one sent out from a local Canon warehouse, which won't take long -- so the onus is on Canon to stock their shelves, not the dealer. It's a low risk anyhow, because someone who wants a 5D4 NOW may take either the more expensive model, or the less expensive one and deal with the upgrade, unlike 5DS/R where it's not like you can add (or take out) the filter after, so the wrong model on the shelf is likely useless to the buyer.

The other reason to have separate SKUs is that it lets them discount the non CLOG version for people who will never shoot video anyways. And finally, it also gives Canon some additional insight into what 4k is worth to people, based on the upgraded model sales as well as the upgrade ratio of existing devices. I have suspected that one reason to do it in the Canon Centre is that this allows them to track which devices are upgraded, and which are not, which gives them a good handle on the ratio of stills-only shooters who are on the 5D4 platform. I think that's a valuable piece of information.

 

[-pekr-]

I've been so patient with Canon while everyone was jumping ship to Sony

You do realize that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, right? Sucks when reality punches your argument in the face, doesn't it?

Since when is the market share any relevant measure to judge the level of innovation?

 

[Jopa]

If you get a Sony a7R2 photo and downscale it to the resolution of the 5D4, the Sony will still retain more sharpness and fine detail. And it KILLLLLLS me to say that... I waited so long for the 5D4 to come out and I love everything about it.... Except the image quality. There's no trolling from this end, just disappointment

You are comparing apples to oranges. You need to compare to the 5DsR. I shot the A7r2 since it first hit the shelves, sold it about 2 months ago since weren't using it at all. It's an ok system if you on some kind of medication that slows you down so you can tolerate sluggishness of the camera and the EVF.

Here is a picture shot with the 300/2.8 II, on of the sharpest lenses, sharper than the Otus 85:


And here is a crop - please tell me if it's not sharp...

 

[foo]

I do presently, actually, but not with electronics -- where I understand this is commonly done for power/communications reasons.

Power is largely a non-issue these days, can't think of anything in the last decade or more that hasn't had a universal power supply.

Comms is different, and it's rarely about the hardware, mostly it's down to the laws in different countries.

Stupid example of laws making a difference was French language PC's. Simplistically, you'd be shipping them to France, Belgium, Switzerland, Canada. France had (not sure if they still do) some laws banning encryption, so different skus for France, Canada, rest.

see that, can we... Perhaps it's in the manual, or in a summary of 'what's in the box' at the B&H or Canon website?

Yep, Canon aren't exactly going to give us the BOM, and we probably don't care as every last screw, spring, plastic, metalwork etc will have a part number. Probably even the paint has one..

But you may have hit the nail on the head there.. Presumably there's an updated manual in the box that details the clog stuff - could be as simple as that.

 

[foo]

To me, the most obvious reason for Canon having an extra SKU is simply that it allows them to charge more for CLOG out of the box. Some people

Sure. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but wasn't the release price in the US $3499? So $3599 is just the same $100 as taking it in to be upgraded.
Of course the camera has reduced in cost since release, but we'd need to know whether that's a Canon reduction or whether it's a local dealer/distributor driven thing.

Also a seemingly larger differential may be due to Canon getting a smaller percentage of that difference on a new sale compared to what they'll pocket if you take the camera to CPS for an upgrade.

 

[LonelyBoy]

I've been so patient with Canon while everyone was jumping ship to Sony

You do realize that Sony has been losing market share to Canon, right? Sucks when reality punches your argument in the face, doesn't it?

Since when is the market share any relevant measure to judge the level of innovation?

Who was talking innovation? Which, mind, Canon has been doing plenty of. The argument at hand, though, was "everyone jumping ship to Sony". Which, factually, market share is an extremely relevant measure of.

 

[ahsanford]

But Sony FF sales are looking promising. First Nikon, then Canon? Canon owns reliability but Sony is generating excitement.

So did Pontiac. Have you seen any new Pontiacs on the road in the last few years? :

- A