Preorder: Canon EOS R5, Canon EOS R6 and new lenses

HenryL

EOS R5
CR Pro
Apr 1, 2020
159
302
I'm struggling with all the hating on the Northrup's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they make it clear that they are not criticizing the R5. They can't, they don't have it. Rather, they are throwing in a contrarian perspective by saying "wait until objective reviews get posted before getting too excited".

Isn't their advice the essence of prudent decision making? Instead of focusing on all the "wow's" for which there are many and the Canon marketing and ambassadors have highlighted, also make sure that you have vetted all the potential negatives before making a purchase decision. Never get too positive or too negative on an important purchasing decision.

Personally, I have gotten caught up in all the hype. I have a pre-order placed, but I do need to consider the negatives before allowing shipment. First, I am a stills shooter so the overheating problem is a rather minor concern (not a decision factor). However, I do care about the anti-aliasing filter. If it's too strong, then the IQ could be a significant downgrade from my A7rIII. I don't need 60, 70, or 80MP, but I don't want to take a step back from the most brilliant sensor I've ever used. A related factor is the DR. It will be nice to see if it does in fact have the one-stop improvement promised.

Other concerns involve continuous shooting, probably the main reason I've ordered this camera. There will be rolling-shutter artifacts, but how severe? What will be the penalty for shooting 20fps electronic? Will it be 12-bit or even 10-bit images? Will the DR drop noticeably when shooting at that fast repeat rate? What happens to the DR shooting at 20fps? Does it drop as well? Finally, how close are the 12/20fps continuous to reality? If I can only achieve--or come close to these values--in shooting situations that are not common to my shooting practices, then the camera doesn't make sense.

What else is important to know before using this camera?

While negative responses to any of these questions is unlikely to change my buying decision (unless extremely negative), I would like to be fully informed before making this kind of sizable purchase. Basically, if you are upgrading from the 5dIV (or considering a move from Sony or Nikon land) isn't it important to know that the r5 is indeed an upgrade in dimensions that matter to you? I think so.

So, I"m hoping that there will be objective reviews released before the r5 ships. If not, I may cancel my preorder and wait for those reviews to appear.
I get where you're coming from...but in regards to this particular video I disagree. Yes, they use the words that they are not criticizing, but the tone is definitely critical. It's not what they say, but how they say it, that turned me off anyway. I won't presume to speak for others.

The AA filter is said to be the same/use the same technology as the one on the 1DX MIII, and Canon claims the R5 can out resolve the 5DsR. I also recall, but can't be certain which discussion it was in, that the claim is no rolling shutter in 12fps mechanical shutter mode, and the way the 20fps electronic shutter was mentioned in that context made it sound like there may be some in that mode. I think this as in the ProAV video linked earlier in this thread?

Anyway, nothing wrong with being cautious and waiting for more info to roll in before buying the R5. I have been without my 5DIV since April and I'm jonesing to have my FF back. I am confident the R5 will be a nice upgrade from the 5DIV for landscape, portrait, macro work. What I'm not sure of is can it also replace my 7DII for BIF? I think it will do nicely, won't mind the 20mp to 17mp drop with the crop mode it's close enough and the tracking should actually be better with the R5. Looking forward to finding out soon. :)
 

korbar

Preordering Fool?
Jul 7, 2020
13
22
I'm struggling with all the hating on the Northrup's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they make it clear that they are not criticizing the R5. They can't, they don't have it. Rather, they are throwing in a contrarian perspective by saying "wait until objective reviews get posted before getting too excited".

Isn't their advice the essence of prudent decision making? Instead of focusing on all the "wow's" for which there are many and the Canon marketing and ambassadors have highlighted, also make sure that you have vetted all the potential negatives before making a purchase decision. Never get too positive or too negative on an important purchasing decision.

Personally, I have gotten caught up in all the hype. I have a pre-order placed, but I do need to consider the negatives before allowing shipment. First, I am a stills shooter so the overheating problem is a rather minor concern (not a decision factor). However, I do care about the anti-aliasing filter. If it's too strong, then the IQ could be a significant downgrade from my A7rIII. I don't need 60, 70, or 80MP, but I don't want to take a step back from the most brilliant sensor I've ever used. A related factor is the DR. It will be nice to see if it does in fact have the one-stop improvement promised.

Other concerns involve continuous shooting, probably the main reason I've ordered this camera. There will be rolling-shutter artifacts, but how severe? What will be the penalty for shooting 20fps electronic? Will it be 12-bit or even 10-bit images? Will the DR drop noticeably when shooting at that fast repeat rate? What happens to the DR shooting at 20fps? Does it drop as well? Finally, how close are the 12/20fps continuous to reality? If I can only achieve--or come close to these values--in shooting situations that are not common to my shooting practices, then the camera doesn't make sense.

What else is important to know before using this camera?

While negative responses to any of these questions is unlikely to change my buying decision (unless extremely negative), I would like to be fully informed before making this kind of sizable purchase. Basically, if you are upgrading from the 5dIV (or considering a move from Sony or Nikon land) isn't it important to know that the r5 is indeed an upgrade in dimensions that matter to you? I think so.

So, I"m hoping that there will be objective reviews released before the r5 ships. If not, I may cancel my preorder and wait for those reviews to appear.

Man, I was just so disappointed with their presentation of info. I usually hold them in pretty high regards and look for Tony's input. I even went to their channel hoping they'd have posted something before that video went live, but it was like weirdly childish sounding and really off putting in my opinion. Kinda whack coming from them.
 
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Starting out EOS R

EOS R5 - RF24-105mm F4L, RF70-200mm f2.8L
Feb 13, 2020
281
310
I'm struggling with all the hating on the Northrup's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they make it clear that they are not criticizing the R5. They can't, they don't have it. Rather, they are throwing in a contrarian perspective by saying "wait until objective reviews get posted before getting too excited".

Isn't their advice the essence of prudent decision making? Instead of focusing on all the "wow's" for which there are many and the Canon marketing and ambassadors have highlighted, also make sure that you have vetted all the potential negatives before making a purchase decision. Never get too positive or too negative on an important purchasing decision.

Personally, I have gotten caught up in all the hype. I have a pre-order placed, but I do need to consider the negatives before allowing shipment. First, I am a stills shooter so the overheating problem is a rather minor concern (not a decision factor). However, I do care about the anti-aliasing filter. If it's too strong, then the IQ could be a significant downgrade from my A7rIII. I don't need 60, 70, or 80MP, but I don't want to take a step back from the most brilliant sensor I've ever used. A related factor is the DR. It will be nice to see if it does in fact have the one-stop improvement promised.

Other concerns involve continuous shooting, probably the main reason I've ordered this camera. There will be rolling-shutter artifacts, but how severe? What will be the penalty for shooting 20fps electronic? Will it be 12-bit or even 10-bit images? Will the DR drop noticeably when shooting at that fast repeat rate? What happens to the DR shooting at 20fps? Does it drop as well? Finally, how close are the 12/20fps continuous to reality? If I can only achieve--or come close to these values--in shooting situations that are not common to my shooting practices, then the camera doesn't make sense.

What else is important to know before using this camera?

While negative responses to any of these questions is unlikely to change my buying decision (unless extremely negative), I would like to be fully informed before making this kind of sizable purchase. Basically, if you are upgrading from the 5dIV (or considering a move from Sony or Nikon land) isn't it important to know that the r5 is indeed an upgrade in dimensions that matter to you? I think so.

So, I"m hoping that there will be objective reviews released before the r5 ships. If not, I may cancel my preorder and wait for those reviews to appear.
Like some others, I generally am OK with the Northrop's, especially their tutorial videos but in this instance, no matter how many times they said 'but we've not had one to test', it was mainly a negative and quite childish piece.

I totally understand your perspective on wanting as much info as possible and I don't think anyone is critical of that, it's just that this piece and quite a few of their previous reviews have mainly been negative about Canon, despite admitting to having several RP's in the studio. It all seems a little bizarre and inconsistent.
 

mppix

EOS RP
Feb 13, 2018
209
177
I get where you're coming from...but in regards to this particular video I disagree. Yes, they use the words that they are not criticizing, but the tone is definitely critical. It's not what they say, but how they say it, that turned me off anyway. I won't presume to speak for others.

The AA filter is said to be the same/use the same technology as the one on the 1DX MIII, and Canon claims the R5 can out resolve the 5DsR. I also recall, but can't be certain which discussion it was in, that the claim is no rolling shutter in 12fps mechanical shutter mode, and the way the 20fps electronic shutter was mentioned in that context made it sound like there may be some in that mode. I think this as in the ProAV video linked earlier in this thread?

Anyway, nothing wrong with being cautious and waiting for more info to roll in before buying the R5. I have been without my 5DIV since April and I'm jonesing to have my FF back. I am confident the R5 will be a nice upgrade from the 5DIV for landscape, portrait, macro work. What I'm not sure of is can it also replace my 7DII for BIF? I think it will do nicely, won't mind the 20mp to 17mp drop with the crop mode it's close enough and the tracking should actually be better with the R5. Looking forward to finding out soon. :)
They are actually wrong on the AA filter. Any analog to digital conversion system must have a filter unless aliasing is acceptable (never really is). For cameras, you can either rely on the low-pass characteristics of lenses or add an optical low-pass filter. A low-pass filter can be designed to be barely noticeable.
Assuming that RF lenses are designed for high-resolutions (say >100MP), you need a LP filter especially on lower resolution sensors (say 20MP sensors).

Also, they seem grumpy that they have no relation with Canon and did not receive review units. They cast some doubt of some of the specs and then go on about the importance of independent reviewers, i.e. their business. To me this seemed almost desperate, I hope they are not about to go under but they could have approached this in a way more subtle way, for example
 
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Nov 3, 2014
698
507
Hard to blame Polin for being a little defensive. Canon pretty much burned the reviewers. Never a good idea. I have no idea how the overheating issue will sort itself out but it’s pretty clear ithe launch is a PR disaster for Canon. Hope they can “right the ship” next week.
 

BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
149
287
Man, I was just so disappointed with their presentation of info. I usually hold them in pretty high regards and look for Tony's input. I even went to their channel hoping they'd have posted something before that video went live, but it was like weirdly childish sounding and really off putting in my opinion. Kinda whack coming from them.
Yeah, the whining was very off-putting. They can be balanced on certain videos, but there are times where they are pandering to an audience. In this case, it felt like pandering to the Canon bashers. Like Canon has it's day and they felt a need to knock it off it's high horse. The whining tone was over the top, so I think this was a creative choice in executing the video. So I disliked it.

The most annoying part is the whining about the by-products of filming in 8K. Like, duh, it is going to take a lot more data and a more capable computer to edit. The fact that they can act surprised and miffed by the reality is incredible short-sightedness.

That's like someone buying an exotic car and then complaining about gas mileage or insurance premiums. lol, really?
 

korbar

Preordering Fool?
Jul 7, 2020
13
22
Yeah, the whining was very off-putting. They can be balanced on certain videos, but there are times where they are pandering to an audience. In this case, it felt like pandering to the Canon bashers. Like Canon has it's day and they felt a need to knock it off it's high horse. The whining tone was over the top, so I think this was a creative choice in executing the video. So I disliked it.

The most annoying part is the whining about the by-products of filming in 8K. Like, duh, it is going to take a lot more data and a more capable computer to edit. The fact that they can act surprised and miffed by the reality is incredible short-sightedness.

That's like someone buying an exotic car and then complaining about gas mileage or insurance premiums. lol, really?
Super bizarre considering Tony tries to take so many high roads and use science to prove his point so often. But I guess when content is running dry you entertain in one way or another to get views. I still like the guy, but damn that was a whack video. ha
 

drama

EOS M6 Mark II
Sep 1, 2016
98
236
Hi, just interested and don't want to interrupt your riveting discussion but what sort of camera bodies cost £4000 or £3000 20 years ago? I can only think of maybe 1 dx series or a Hasselblad which I may be wrong but I don't think they are classed as mainstream so probably wouldn't form a majority of the market?

I don't have an opinion on either side of your conversation but just interested that's all?
I wouldn't say a 5D or R5 were for the majority of the market either. I was talking professional cameras. So yes, the 1D would have been the obvious comparison point. Even the Eos 3 was 1500. The 5D mk2 was 2899 at launch in 2010. The 5D3 was 3400. The market has borne this price for over a decade. And canon glass has always been expensive.
 

mppix

EOS RP
Feb 13, 2018
209
177
Hard to blame Polin for being a little defensive. Canon pretty much burned the reviewers. Never a good idea. I have no idea how the overheating issue will sort itself out but it’s pretty clear ithe launch is a PR disaster for Canon. Hope they can “right the ship” next week.
Agreed, PR could be better right now. However, I'm not sure what they could have done different. They clearly put everything into the camera that would fit with quite a few industry firsts - they clearly want to promote that.
I'm still wondering if heat limits can be avoided by using external recorders.
 

Eclipsed

EOS R5, "Hefty Fifty" and more.
Apr 30, 2020
143
147
I know this is the current "hot"-topic, so I thought I'd give my 2 cents on it (that's about all it's worth):

I happen to be a "stills shooter", so the fuss about overheating doesn't really worry me either way.
But the video I've seen (animal eye-AF etc) is so stunning that I'd probably get into video after all. But I wouldn't be in to it hot & heavy (no pun intended) and I don't think it would be an issue at all, and if it was then I'd just enjoy the great 4K which is probably more than I'd hope for anyway.

Since I am a stills shooter, my main concern (and not a big one) is whether the low pass sensor filter they mention will dull the resolution of the stills it takes or not. Many here have mentioned it probably will be a mild filter version. I'm assuming Canon knows how to make it high quality and good, so I'm not going to sweat it.

My bottom line is that I've been waiting a long time to buy into the Canon FF system with quality glass and I don't want to have to wait for the next R... camera to come out in a year or so. So I'm going to enjoy the heck out of my R5 and be happy for all the incredible things I can do with it now. In the future when they come out with the next R... with better this-or-that, I'll be able to consider buying it as a 2nd body to go with my existing R lenses.

So, win-win - let the fun begin! ;)
I'm a stills shooter, and preordered the R5. I'm grateful to the video shooters who are increasing the sales volume and thus reducing the cost of my 45MP 20FPS camera (that happens to have what they need for 8K). The video threshold undoubtedly pushed Canon to the level they did. Thanks.
 

scottkinfw

Wildlife photography is my passion
CR Pro
I ordered my R5 with Canon BG-R10 Battery Grip,Canon Control Ring Mount Adapter EF-EOS R , and Canon LP-E6NH Lithium-Ion Battery . With that said, i need to humbly ask a stupid question, and I hope people can help. I have been trying to figure out which SD card to buy. I know to look for a Compatible with UHS-II V60 or V90 for video. There are a number of designations (sdxc, SDXC2, XQD, ETC.), plus many manufacturers. Since this is a higher MP camera that I will likely use for some video, these decisions are new for me.
Thanks all.

Scott
 

Gazwas

EOS 90D
Sep 3, 2018
179
153
I enjoy occasionally watching Tony and Chelsea and understand due to thier profile need to put out something about the R5 even though they don’t actually have anything to say yet. But I'm glad Canon has taken this approach. I detest how YouTubers hype up their content by examining things with a microscope with the single gole of finding that one issue that will blow up and ultimately boost their profile. These issues I might add, are normally ones the majority of the target market will never encounter.

I transitioned from Canon to a Sony A7rIII (A7rII before) but always continued to use and purchase Canon EF Glass. While I can't fault the sensor with its great stills IQ, its about the only thing I like about the camera and can’t wait to get back to Canon.

I hate adapting lenses and never got tempted by any of the Sony glass. SLOG is terrible to shoot and grade without an external monitor with LUT. Underexposing by too much, even for effect the resulting image became full of noise and as the files were 8bit they could fall apart very quickly. The menu system was a total messed up jumble and if I’m totally being honest, for stills I felt the lack of a decent AA filter could sometimes on certain subjects make them look way over sharpened and very digital looking (aliasing). Don't get me wrong, its gets the job done and very well but its not all rosey over in Sony land as most Tubers lead us to believe.
 
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scottkinfw

Wildlife photography is my passion
CR Pro
I'm not the person you were replying to, but my biggest worry is overheating at 8K/24p/IPB when shooting talking-head stuff or interviews, which can often go an hour or more. I'm used to having to pause to reset the recording after 30 minutes or change a memory card, but now we're talking 30 minutes of downtime between shots.

The way I'm justifying the purchase to myself is by remembering that the camera shoots 4K/24 with better IQ/AF and a leaner codec than my 1DX2 or 5D4 and the ability to shoot 8K or 4K/120p is a bonus.
Not to be rude, but if you are going an hour or more, this likely is the wrong tool for you unless you want to buy two or three. However, it looks like a great camera, and maybe if you want it, just get it and you don't have to justify it to yourself or anyone else. I don't "need" one, but I gave my camera bag a gift!
 

Ramage

EOS R5
CR Pro
Aug 27, 2019
346
548
Hard to blame Polin for being a little defensive. Canon pretty much burned the reviewers. Never a good idea. I have no idea how the overheating issue will sort itself out but it’s pretty clear ithe launch is a PR disaster for Canon. Hope they can “right the ship” next week.
This "overheating Issue" is getting tiresome.

The Camera is not overheating, it appears to be activating it's thermal protection protocols and warning the user to stop recording or let the camera cool off. If the user chooses to ignore the thermal protection warning then the Camera will shut off to protect itself. This is a feature of the system and appears to have been well tested as there are stated limits included in what I assume is the manual.

If the cameras are cooking themselves without a user facing warning or protection that in my mind is an overheat. If the system is randomly shutting off due to heat that is an overheat.

I choose to assume that Canon being historically careful about the quality and MTBF on their systems the protection protocols are aggressive to ensure the heat soaking of the system is well below the component damaging limits.

In my day job at Avigilon we test Cameras all the time in Thermotron chambers and I have seen my fair share of platforms that do not trigger thermal protection (mostly hikvision) and just cook @60 degrees Celsius.

IMO this has been just way overblown
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
3,126
1,832
OK, then you're still wrong. It's a commonly overstated stat. DSLR (or equivalent - your chosen acronym for mirrorless cameras) sales have dipped slightly, but in comparison to the largest part of the camera market, which was fixed lens cameras, remained relatively stable. Source here: https://www.statista.com/chart/5782/digital-camera-shipments/

And for the third time, people were paying £4000 for bodies and £3000 for lenses twenty years ago. Given inflation, that's just not a valid reason for why. I'd agree that there's a sliver of the DSLR market who went off with their iphones happily, which might account for a slight dip, but nowhere near the level you've suggested.
Most of the sales reduction for ILCs was in the entry level and lower enthusiast level cameras. The premium tier cameras have always been smaller volume, though the demise of newspapers, magazines, and staff photographer positions at those and other media companies has affected sales of "flagship" models.