Preorder: Canon EOS R5, Canon EOS R6 and new lenses

[privatebydesign]

Nope.

Sorry sanj, on this one you are wrong. Cropping gives the same perspective just different dof. See my above example That I have posted many times.

 

[privatebydesign]

In the context of where this stems from, I was referring to the inability to simulate telephoto effects from the same spot using only a wide angle lens. I gave the scenario of setting up a wide angle shot and using that for all your field of views. This means there are no variables. I'm not moving closer to the subject, not moving farther away. I'm not changing the focal length, not adjusting depth of field. The only variable is cropping with a single lens and a single camera. And no matter how much I crop, it will not look like a lens of a longer focal length.

So if I'm being creative, I would use different focal lengths to have a variety of shots because I would want different perspectives. I was merely illustrating that if I sacrifice some of that creative ability, I can get take advantage of the the flexibility and simplicity of using 8K.

If you want a different perspective you have to move. If you don’t move it is the same perspective irrespective of framing or focal length. If you move the perspective is different even if you don’t change focal length or anything else.

that is what perspective is, your position in relation to the scene.

 

[Michael Clark]

In the context of where this stems from, I was referring to the inability to simulate telephoto effects from the same spot using only a wide angle lens. I gave the scenario of setting up a wide angle shot and using that for all your field of views. This means there are no variables. I'm not moving closer to the subject, not moving farther away. I'm not changing the focal length, not adjusting depth of field. The only variable is cropping with a single lens and a single camera. And no matter how much I crop, it will not look like a lens of a longer focal length.

So if I'm being creative, I would use different focal lengths to have a variety of shots because I would want different perspectives. I was merely illustrating that if I sacrifice some of that creative ability, I can get take advantage of the the flexibility and simplicity of using 8K.

The one thing you can do by cropping is "simulate telephoto effects" because there's really no such thing as "telephoto effects", there is only the effect shooting distance has on perspective. If you shoot from the same distance, you'll get the same amount of compression with a 1200mm lens or a 12mm lens cropped to the same FoV as the 1200mm lens. Exactly the same compression, because compression is determined by the relative distances between the camera and the various objects in the scene.

https://www.australianlight.com.au/blog/post/myth_busting_focal_length_and_perspective/

 

[BakaBokeh]

If you want a different perspective you have to move. If you don’t move it is the same perspective irrespective of framing or focal length. If you move the perspective is different even if you don’t change focal length or anything else.

that is what perspective is, your position in relation to the scene.

And that is exactly my original point.

"And you could incorporate all the dynamic panning and zooming so when you complete an edit, you could make it appear as if you had multiple cameras recording a single performance. Obviously, you wouldn't get the telephoto effect of a telephoto lens, or the parallax effect from tilting/panning, but those would be lost on the untrained eye."

Some of you feel like you have this need to correct something, when there's nothing to correct.

This is also why I also said, I'm just gonna agree.

Today is a great day, I preordered my R5, I have nothing more to argue about.

 

[Anthny]

1) Is the canon GPS receiver GP-E2 compatible with the R5?
2) Does the latest version of Lightroom Classic running on a PC correctly interpret the coordinates? Apparently it do not originally.

 

[privatebydesign]

And that is exactly my original point.

"And you could incorporate all the dynamic panning and zooming so when you complete an edit, you could make it appear as if you had multiple cameras recording a single performance. Obviously, you wouldn't get the telephoto effect of a telephoto lens, or the parallax effect from tilting/panning, but those would be lost on the untrained eye."

Some of you feel like you have this need to correct something, when there's nothing to correct.

This is also why I also said, I'm just gonna agree.

Today is a great day, I preordered my R5, I have nothing more to argue about.

THAT is completely incorrect. That is the bit that needs correcting as there is no such thing as a "telephoto effect".

Where is the 'telephoto effect' here?

 

[BakaBokeh]

THAT is completely incorrect. That is the bit that needs correcting as there is no such thing as a "telephoto effect".

Where is the 'telephoto effect' here?

View attachment 191255

My mistake for saying "telephoto effect." But I do know that both examples look extremely different.

 

[privatebydesign]

My mistake for saying "telephoto effect." But I do know that both examples look extremely different.

The ONLY difference is dof, and that his because in that example I was trying to illustrate the dof too. If you use a crop factor on the dof the images are identical.

Like this, 75mm or 150mm? It is the same thing from the same place. if you used a 75mm lens @ f2.8 from the same place and cropped it to the same framing it would be identical.

 

[BakaBokeh]

The ONLY difference is dof, and that his because in that example I was trying to illustrate the dof too. If you use a crop factor on the dof the images are identical.

Like this, 75mm or 150mm? It is the same thing from the same place.

View attachment 191256

Never disagreed with you at all.

And it still makes my original point. I can't get the look of... what I should've said... "a different depth of field" if I'm shooting from the same spot with only one lens and without varying any settings.

 

[David - Sydney]

Pre-order price is AUD$7,099 in Australia according to “canon.com.au“ website! Yes, this includes the 10% GST or federal sales tax of Australia. But, OMG... I am sure it’s worth every cent, but, goodness me, good luck finding both professionals and advanced amateurs with the cash to buy these in the COVID era!

Around AUD$5,499 to AUD$5,699 may have been a little more palatable! In a time where ‘pro-work’ is drying up, newspapers are shutting down and people are losing their jobs - these will not sell like hot cakes!

Avoiding the off-topic discussions!
We get 5 year local Canon warranty but the 100-500mm is too expensive. 10% more than the current RF70-200mm and the RF TC is 50% more expensive than its EF counterpart. I will cancel my pre-order for it. Disappointed as since I can't use TCs with my RF70-200mm (as I did for EF 70-200mm), I don't now have a reasonably priced option for longer reach... except to go back to EF100-400mm mk 2. Not a bad option especially if there are some good second hand copies handed down from people moving to the RF tele lenses.

Is there a website/document that specifies which CFexpress cards are qualified? Australian resellers are bundling a 64gb USH-I SD card (useless!?!) card but no RF-EF adaptor or CFexpress.

 

[pmjm]

I ordered my R5 + 24-70mmf2.8L at 5AM this morning PST. Does anyone know if there is a way to find out where you are on the preorder list?

That would totally depend on the vendor. If you preordered from, say, Amazon, then you won't know. I'm still not convinced they ship in the order the pre-orders were received. B&H has told me in the past that I would be in the first batch of received goods for a pre-order. You can call them and ask.

 

[highdesertmesa]

Cropping does not give the same effect. As someone who started years ago with 35mm and then transitioned to 2-1/4 x 2-1/4, the difference was amazing. When you crop you are blowing up a smaller number of pixels which does not return the sharpness of a long lens. The image may be the same size but the sharpness is completely different.

Not talking about the sharpness. The OP was talking about the perspective/compression of the visual.

 

[pmjm]

I'm just a bit ignorant about the demand for 8k I guess. I mean do we even have computers that we can process that much data on? Or screens to view it on? I would think 4k would be sufficient for most customers? And if they demand 4k recordings for an entire event then you'd likely not be looking at a camera system like this anyway?

I deliver in 4K. 8K will be great to shoot in for several reasons, first, reframing. I don't have to spend 15 minutes making sure the camera is perfectly centered on my set, I can roughly center by eyeball in a few seconds, then reframe a perfectly centered 4K shot in post without any resolution loss.

I can also punch in on a detail or for a close-up on the talent's face in post, or pan around the frame and still deliver in 4K without having to upscale.

Finally, when I scale down from 8K to 4K, it will increase sharpness and reduce noise in the final image due to sub-pixel sampling and you'll end up with a much cleaner picture than if you'd shot at 4K natively.

Will be curious to compare downsampling in editing software vs shooting in oversampled 4K mode from the camera, just as an experiment, I'll likely shoot mostly in 8K to retain the reframing abilities.

 

[Bert63]

So here's my summary from B&H:

R5 - 3,789
Sandisk CFExpress 128GB - 195.99
BG-R10 Grip - 342.02
LP-E6NH - 77.42

Thanks to Payboo - no tax.

Total - 4,404

Decent.

Very happy.

 

[Bert63]

I asked the same question. If you know what time you received a confirmation email, the shop should know if you were going to get a shipment by 30Jul. On the other hand, they probably won't tell us that we missed the cut because you would cancel. They like having your money in their bank account.

Except places like B&H don't charge until the order ships.

 

[highdesertmesa]

Never disagreed with you at all.

And it still makes my original point. I can't get the look of... what I should've said... "a different depth of field" if I'm shooting from the same spot with only one lens and without varying any settings.

I was calling out what you said only because you put it right next to mentioning the changes you'd see via parallax when moving the camera position (true change in the images). Bouncing around in crops will be the same as throwing on a longer lens minus the difference in resolution and DOF (although DOF can be made equivalent as was demonstrated further back).

Anyway, sorry to have derailed this thread. It's just a myth that keeps getting perpetuated. I believed it for a long time and argued against it, but I finally understood once I tried some tests myself using my Leica Q's crop mode versus another full frame with interchangeable lenses. Zero difference between Q's 50mm crop (f/1.7) and another camera with 50mm @ f/1.8 shot from the same position. Only differences were those introduced by resolution, bokeh due to the lens designs, etc. But the framing and "compression" of the scene were identical. This is most often misunderstood on medium format forums where everyone thinks their sensor is super magic sauce – when in fact what they're seeing are things like superior sharpness, microcontrast, nice focus falloff, etc. due to superior medium format lenses. But the "compression" isn't better or any different.

 

[martin_]

All talking about the R5 and I only hope that the R6 will drop at least $200 in October and that Sigma or Tamron launch their 24-70 2.8 RF at a good price .

PD1: 8k is marketing
PD2: Saludos desde Argentina

 

[Quarkcharmed]

Or then again, Canon is claiming an extra stop of DR over the 5DIV which, again, I'd be curious to see the output from.

Very interesting. Where do they claim it exactly?

 

[koch1948]

1) Is the canon GPS receiver GP-E2 compatible with the R5?
2) Does the latest version of Lightroom Classic running on a PC correctly interpret the coordinates? Apparently it do not originally.

1) Canon shows the GP-E2 as compatible with the EOS R5 under the "Supplies and Accessories" tab. https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...dslr-and-mirrorless-cameras/mirrorless/eos-r5
2) I only use Canon DPP4, so I wouldn't know about Lightroom.

 

[navastronia]

Have you heard about 8 stops of IBIS with a (non-IS) RF85/1.2?

Really?? I didn’t see that.