Production of the EOS 5D Mark III Finished? [CR2]

[bdunbar79]

Of course in the real world MILC sales are flat and Canon's market share keeps growing.

Think you got confused writing this. Its more like the opposite.

MILC sales increased from 2014 to 15 both in market share (from around 1-in-5 to around 1-in-4 of worldwide ILC sales) and even slightly in absolute numbers.

DSLR sales again were down 2014 to 2015 (for once only by a few percent).

However, according to Canon their ILC unit sales fell with much more - a full 12% in 2015. Because Canon's mirrorless sales does not account for much of their overall sales (and actually should have gone up if Canon mirrorless follows the market norm) Canon DSLR's are in fact loosing market share to both mirrorless overall and to their specific DSLR competitors.

All this in spite of my own two Canon DSLR purchases last year...

Nice try, but no.

 

[Maiaibing]

Of course in the real world MILC sales are flat and Canon's market share keeps growing.

Think you got confused writing this. Its more like the opposite.

MILC sales increased from 2014 to 15 both in market share (from around 1-in-5 to around 1-in-4 of worldwide ILC sales) and even slightly in absolute numbers.

DSLR sales again were down 2014 to 2015 (for once only by a few percent).

However, according to Canon their ILC unit sales fell with much more - a full 12% in 2015. Because Canon's mirrorless sales does not account for much of their overall sales (and actually should have gone up if Canon mirrorless follows the market norm) Canon DSLR's are in fact loosing market share to both mirrorless overall and to their specific DSLR competitors.

All this in spite of my own two Canon DSLR purchases last year...

Nice try, but no.

LOL! OK I used Canon investor relations sales numbers and LensVid global camera sales numbers.

And you... rather just be blind to the facts?

 

[privatebydesign]

Of course in the real world MILC sales are flat and Canon's market share keeps growing.

Think you got confused writing this. Its more like the opposite.

MILC sales increased from 2014 to 15 both in market share (from around 1-in-5 to around 1-in-4 of worldwide ILC sales) and even slightly in absolute numbers.

DSLR sales again were down 2014 to 2015 (for once only by a few percent).

However, according to Canon their ILC unit sales fell with much more - a full 12% in 2015. Because Canon's mirrorless sales does not account for much of their overall sales (and actually should have gone up if Canon mirrorless follows the market norm) Canon DSLR's are in fact loosing market share to both mirrorless overall and to their specific DSLR competitors.

All this in spite of my own two Canon DSLR purchases last year...

Nice try, but no.

LOL! OK I used Canon investor relations sales numbers and LensVid global camera sales numbers.

And you... rather just be blind to the facts?

Nonsense, you could both be using the same figures, it is just your interpretation of them that is different.

My take is that MILC are not growing at a rate anybody would call healthy, and SLR's, however much the camera market has shrunk, still comfortably outsell MILC by a substantial margin. Spin the numbers any way you want, Canon dominate camera sales and the second biggest player is losing market share.

 

[Diltiazem]

Of course in the real world MILC sales are flat and Canon's market share keeps growing.

Think you got confused writing this. Its more like the opposite.

MILC sales increased from 2014 to 15 both in market share (from around 1-in-5 to around 1-in-4 of worldwide ILC sales) and even slightly in absolute numbers.

DSLR sales again were down 2014 to 2015 (for once only by a few percent).

However, according to Canon their ILC unit sales fell with much more - a full 12% in 2015. Because Canon's mirrorless sales does not account for much of their overall sales (and actually should have gone up if Canon mirrorless follows the market norm) Canon DSLR's are in fact loosing market share to both mirrorless overall and to their specific DSLR competitors.

All this in spite of my own two Canon DSLR purchases last year...

Nice try, but no.

LOL! OK I used Canon investor relations sales numbers and LensVid global camera sales numbers.

And you... rather just be blind to the facts?

Exact numbers from all countries or regions are not available. But Japan numbers are available for last several years and they give a good indication of what's happening in other regions.

First look at DSLR numbers. Canon has either maintained or increased market share.

http://bcnranking.jp/award/section/hard/hard102.html

See how much Nikon has lost between 2014 and 2015 (last two BCN awards).

Now, look at mirrorless. This is supposed to be Canon's weakest point.

http://bcnranking.jp/award/section/hard/hard94.html

See how much share Sony has lost despite their A7 series or A6000. And Canon now is in third place above mirrorless giants Panasonic and Fuji.

And Canon always dominated point and shoot.

http://bcnranking.jp/award/section/hard/hard54.html

Sony is not in the picture despite internet/DPR favorite RX series.

Yeah, it is true that DSLR market has fallen in last few years, but Canon has maintained it's dominance and it's nearest competitor Nikon has done pretty bad last year.

And despite weaker presence in mirrorless Canon has increased it's market share. Mirrorless market has virtually plateaued. Only reason it has shown small growth is because it's cameras have been pretty rudimentary in functionality and for that reason it is able make substantial improvement compared to previous generation, this is making people to upgrade. I mean A6300 is the first mirrorless camera in which you can continue see a subject in burst mode.

Your conclusions are erroneous.

 

[kaihp]

This is an illustration of what Sporgon and I are talking about so it doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory.

This shot has more DR than the DPR image, how do we know that? The sun is still above the horizon.

First image is as shot. Second it as adjusted, dropped highlights and lifted shadows, the greenery is now much lighter than the DPR image. Third is 100% crop of lifted shadow area as marked in shot two. Same for four and five. Zero banding!

Thanks for taking the time to do the shots and PP it to prove the point.

 

[Diltiazem]

This is an illustration of what Sporgon and I are talking about so it doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory.

There is no conspiracy theory. My experience with 5DsR is similar to yours. No banding in all shadow lifting experiments I have done.

Interesting thing about that DPR sample is that there is DPR studio DR test where they push shadow up to 6 stops.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/10

You can scan the whole scene where they push 6 stops and won't find banding. Yet, Rishi manages to find banding in a scene where he didn't provide the RAW for us to see what he did. Pretty desperate and dishonest.

 

[wockawocka]

Hello,
Just thought I'd drop in as I've seen 5DSR and 5D3 and blah blah blah BS comparisons and general moaning.

The 5DSr sensor is much better and has better colours and has better shadow performance than the 5D3.

I shot with the 5D3 since launch and for the last year dual 5DSr's for weddings too. I must be mad.

It's not night and day better, it has it's flaws but it's the best from Canon yet other than the 1DXii sensor of which I've not tried.

The best camera is one that helps you pay the bills on and gets the shot. Comparing modern cameras these days is pointless, they're all good and your clients mostly don't care.

 

[docsmith]

Hello,
Just thought I'd drop in as I've seen 5DSR and 5D3 and blah blah blah BS comparisons and general moaning.

The 5DSr sensor is much better and has better colours and has better shadow performance than the 5D3.

I shot with the 5D3 since launch and for the last year dual 5DSr's for weddings too. I must be mad.

It's not night and day better, it has it's flaws but it's the best from Canon yet other than the 1DXii sensor of which I've not tried.

The best camera is one that helps you pay the bills on and gets the shot. Comparing modern cameras these days is pointless, they're all good and you're clients mostly don't care.

Always appreciate your input and perspective.

But, on a tangent, I was scrolling through your website and noticed that you include a "1000 year lifespan time capsule disc" as part of your package. I am not a pro, but am interested in a permanent backup system. Could you elaborate on this a bit more?

 

[zim]

This is an illustration of what Sporgon and I are talking about so it doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory.

Thanks PBD and Sporgon, that I do understand.
Actually looks like you've lifted the shadows more than DPR and the only thing missing would be a second light source put on to the wooden post.

As an aside, don't like the bokeh on the horizon of that shot either which makes wonder with that really orange sky line is there any way that the lens isn't coping with it and is creating some false colouring which isn't getting handled correctly in his WF? (I don't mean that the lens is causing the banding!)

Regards

 

[wockawocka]

Hello,
Just thought I'd drop in as I've seen 5DSR and 5D3 and blah blah blah BS comparisons and general moaning.

The 5DSr sensor is much better and has better colours and has better shadow performance than the 5D3.

I shot with the 5D3 since launch and for the last year dual 5DSr's for weddings too. I must be mad.

It's not night and day better, it has it's flaws but it's the best from Canon yet other than the 1DXii sensor of which I've not tried.

The best camera is one that helps you pay the bills on and gets the shot. Comparing modern cameras these days is pointless, they're all good and you're clients mostly don't care.

Always appreciate your input and perspective.

But, on a tangent, I was scrolling through your website and noticed that you include a "1000 year lifespan time capsule disc" as part of your package. I am not a pro, but am interested in a permanent backup system. Could you elaborate on this a bit more?

Sure thing, it's the Mdisc blu ray archival format. They have them all the way to BDXL's

 

[bdunbar79]

Of course in the real world MILC sales are flat and Canon's market share keeps growing.

Think you got confused writing this. Its more like the opposite.

MILC sales increased from 2014 to 15 both in market share (from around 1-in-5 to around 1-in-4 of worldwide ILC sales) and even slightly in absolute numbers.

DSLR sales again were down 2014 to 2015 (for once only by a few percent).

However, according to Canon their ILC unit sales fell with much more - a full 12% in 2015. Because Canon's mirrorless sales does not account for much of their overall sales (and actually should have gone up if Canon mirrorless follows the market norm) Canon DSLR's are in fact loosing market share to both mirrorless overall and to their specific DSLR competitors.

All this in spite of my own two Canon DSLR purchases last year...

Nice try, but no.

LOL! OK I used Canon investor relations sales numbers and LensVid global camera sales numbers.

And you... rather just be blind to the facts?

Let me try helping you again. Rather, let me repost what neuro typed, since you either didn't understand it, or you didn't read it:

Think you are simply confused about the terminology.

MILC sales have risen by ~1% per year – that slope is close enough to flat that it's reasonable to call it such. Clearly, it's not a 'growth market' by any stretch.

Market share is the fraction of sales by one manufacturer within a given market. For interchangeable lens cameras (ILCs – which comprise dSLRs and MILCs), Canon has had the largest market share for >11 years. Yes, the overall market is contracting – but Canon's market share has grown further over the past couple of years.

The ILC market contraction is extrinsic to Canon, their maintained/growing market share indicated they are doing very well intrinsically. Sony is, too (although the most recent BCN showed Sony losing a lot of market share to Olympus).

 

[Sporgon]

This is an illustration of what Sporgon and I are talking about so it doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory.

Thanks PBD and Sporgon, that I do understand.
Actually looks like you've lifted the shadows more than DPR and the only thing missing would be a second light source put on to the wooden post.

As an aside, don't like the bokeh on the horizon of that shot either which makes wonder with that really orange sky line is there any way that the lens isn't coping with it and is creating some false colouring which isn't getting handled correctly in his WF? (I don't mean that the lens is causing the banding!)

Regards

This had piqued my interest; just how had DRP managed to make the 5Ds look so bad when lifting data ? So this evening the sun set at 17:53, and I tried shooting into the light at ISO 250, f/2 and 1/30s, so EV7, just as DPR had. Initially this gave over exposure, as I had anticipated, and eventually it took until 18.10, so 20 minutes later before it began to balance. Then to get the effect with the side flash, using that exposure it too until 18:18 hours, so nearly half an hour. To give you an idea of how dark this is, the first picture is processed to reflect the actual luminosity of the scene as you would actually see it; that is it's beginning to get dark. My Sekonic hand held meter would not register at all.

The second picture is a screen grab of the actual frame shot at the same EV as DPR. The third is a 50% crop after adjustment, which was lightening exposure a little and lifting shadows and increasing saturation. This was on the 5DII and I've never seen it look so horrid.

So why is this ? The lift wasn't that great, and on the R G B values the dark areas are only around mid twenties, not something that would normally make the 5DII fall apart. Well as Private pointed out, it is underexposed, probably by around three stops, but the killer is the fact that it is now so dark, and the light density is so thin: there just aren't the photons about, and it is under exposed to boot. There's not enough to record.

I don't have an Exmor sensor'd camera to hand at the moment, but I'm sure that if I did the same thing, although I wouldn't get banding I'd still get very poor tonality and noise. It's just preferring one type of crap to another.

It's a crass test of a camera. Rishi from DPR seems to follow CR now, perhaps he'd like to explain himself.

 

[wockawocka]

The thing with reviews is they will always be bias based on the reviewer. If Sony is getting a lot of hype and fanboi'sm then you betcha it will trickle down to other manufacturers, in a bad way.

That's how it goes. People seem to be pushing and pulling cameras in extreme ways to show the cracks and flaws. I know we get excited about new tech and geek the **** out of ourselves with excitement but often it seems we forget that under normal circumstances these cameras are great already.

I can't juggle, does that make me a bad person?
I'm over 40, does that make me unable to shoot a wedding?
The Sony has better shadow recovery, does that stop the Canon from taking great photos?

and so on.

The 5DSr does fine. I don't feel the need to go elsewhere and I don't think about the other manufacturers anymore.

 

[livingunique]

The thing with reviews is they will always be bias based on the reviewer. If Sony is getting a lot of hype and fanboi'sm then you betcha it will trickle down to other manufacturers, in a bad way.

That's how it goes. People seem to be pushing and pulling cameras in extreme ways to show the cracks and flaws. I know we get excited about new tech and geek the **** out of ourselves with excitement but often it seems we forget that under normal circumstances these cameras are great already.

I can't juggle, does that make me a bad person?
I'm over 40, does that make me unable to shoot a wedding?
The Sony has better shadow recovery, does that stop the Canon from taking great photos?

and so on.

The 5DSr does fine. I don't feel the need to go elsewhere and I don't think about the other manufacturers anymore.

I recently had a friend who wanted to upgrade to FF. He'd shot a Canon 70D (or maybe 60D) up until that point and only had one or two lenses. He was quizzing me about all sorts of things from DR to IQ and video FPS.

I finally told him to go to 500px or flickr or any other photo site and look up photos he liked, then check the meta data. He found out that all cameras are capable of taking fantastic photographs with good lenses.

I suggested he should then rent the cameras he was torn about and actually use them for a few days.

He settled on the 5D3 when it was all said and done.

 

[Don Haines]

The thing is, I can take any camera on the market and go out and shoot 2 pictures. The first picture will show you how wonderful the camera is. The second picture will show you how terrible the camera is.

When I see a review that fixates on how bad camera X is, the only thing I know is that the writer has an axe to grind. What we need are balanced and consistent reviews that include various lighting conditions and AF challenges. By cherry picking, all the author does is to demean themselves and help confuse the reader.

 

[livingunique]

The thing is, I can take any camera on the market and go out and shoot 2 pictures. The first picture will show you how wonderful the camera is. The second picture will show you how terrible the camera is.

When I see a review that fixates on how bad camera X is, the only thing I know is that the writer has an axe to grind. What we need are balanced and consistent reviews that include various lighting conditions and AF challenges. By cherry picking, all the author does is to demean themselves and help confuse the reader.

Exactly. If you're a Canon shooter and want high res, get the 5DS/R. If you shot Nikon, get the D810. Both are excellent and you'll get great results.

 

[Sporgon]

Of course you can't get the RAW, but if you look at the preceding image in the gallery you can see how much lifting he has done :

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5ds-sr/12

Just like i said, the whole thing stinks.

Yes indeed. "Impossible to control background seen, high contrast"......... Yea, sure :

My little experiment showed that he must have shot that about 25 minutes after sun down, and so at that exposure he'd have had at least a stop or so more latitude available for the sky.

 

[zim]

This had piqued my interest; just how had DRP managed to make the 5Ds look so bad when lifting data ? So this evening the sun set at 17:53, and I tried shooting into the light at ISO 250, f/2 and 1/30s, so EV7, just as DPR had. Initially this gave over exposure, as I had anticipated, and eventually it took until 18.10, so 20 minutes later before it began to balance. Then to get the effect with the side flash, using that exposure it too until 18:18 hours, so nearly half an hour. To give you an idea of how dark this is, the first picture is processed to reflect the actual luminosity of the scene as you would actually see it; that is it's beginning to get dark. My Sekonic hand held meter would not register at all.

The second picture is a screen grab of the actual frame shot at the same EV as DPR. The third is a 50% crop after adjustment, which was lightening exposure a little and lifting shadows and increasing saturation. This was on the 5DII and I've never seen it look so horrid.

So why is this ? The lift wasn't that great, and on the R G B values the dark areas are only around mid twenties, not something that would normally make the 5DII fall apart. Well as Private pointed out, it is underexposed, probably by around three stops, but the killer is the fact that it is now so dark, and the light density is so thin: there just aren't the photons about, and it is under exposed to boot. There's not enough to record.

I don't have an Exmor sensor'd camera to hand at the moment, but I'm sure that if I did the same thing, although I wouldn't get banding I'd still get very poor tonality and noise. It's just preferring one type of crap to another.

It's a crass test of a camera. Rishi from DPR seems to follow CR now, perhaps he'd like to explain himself.

fascinating, if I felt technically competent enough I'd have a go at this myself, ISO 250, f/2 and 1/30s is dark!
heck I'm going to try it this week end weather permitting on a 7D just for a laugh, any ways what's the worst that can happen - I learn something

comparing your 5D2 to PBD's pics to DPR's and the size of that little red square I'm coming to the conclusion that it's not banding in Rishi's pic it's grass ;D

 

[Etienne]

Hello,
Just thought I'd drop in as I've seen 5DSR and 5D3 and blah blah blah BS comparisons and general moaning.

The 5DSr sensor is much better and has better colours and has better shadow performance than the 5D3.

I shot with the 5D3 since launch and for the last year dual 5DSr's for weddings too. I must be mad.

It's not night and day better, it has it's flaws but it's the best from Canon yet other than the 1DXii sensor of which I've not tried.

The best camera is one that helps you pay the bills on and gets the shot. Comparing modern cameras these days is pointless, they're all good and your clients mostly don't care.

You should be comparing the 5Ds with other high megapixel cameras like the A7rII and the Nikon what-ever-its-called. If you don't need megapickles, the 5Ds is not worth the upgrade from the 5D3, and if it's megapickles you really need, then both the Nikon and the Sony give better results.

 

[Loswr]

If you don't need megapickles, the 5Ds is not worth the upgrade from the 5D3, and if it's megapickles you really need, then both the Nikon and the Sony give better results.

If you habitually drastically underexpose your images, want to try and salvage them in post by extreme exposure pushing, and are willing to tolerate the effect that has on tonality...by all means, Nikon or Sony are a better choice.