Prosumer Level Canon Mirrorless Camera to Have 4K [CR2]

[infared]

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[rrcphoto]

We’re told that “at least one of the three mirrorless cameras coming in 2016 will feature 4K video recording”, though the size of the image sensor was unknown.</p>
<p>We’ve heard from a few places that we’ll see a fixed lens mirroress camera along the lines of the Leica Q and Sony RX1 R, but we don’t know what the sensor size would be, one would hope it would be full frame. The other two mirrorless cameras would be a new APS-C model, as well as the introduction of a full frame model, which we assume would be the camera most likely to shoot 4K.</p>
<p>The current estimate on when such products would be announced is the end of August, in time for Photokina 2016 in Cologne, Germany.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

except you're guessing.

there's been no real credible rumor about canon doing a full frame mirrorless to date, outside of "we're looking at it to see if it's worthwhile".

it would be dumb as f.. for canon to come out with a FF mirrorless when they can't even support a APS-C mirrorless in terms of optics.

btw, WTF is a fixed lens mirrorless - that's a fixed lens compact.

canon coming out with three mirrorless in 2016-17 makes sense. they would be refreshing the M10, M3 and a newer model that has a built in EVF - matching basically the powershot Gx series.

to add to this.

the ONLY way that IMO, I could see canon doing a full frame mirrorless is EF mount.

it would honestly make the most sense:

a) it falls in canon's sensor patent porfolio as they don't have a ton of patents dealing with offset microlenses.

b) by the time you add on a healthy grip, there is no difference in camera depth between a short registration distance mount and the 42mm EF mount.

c) keeps the EF mount continuity and allows canon to experiment and see how well a mirrorless camera sells.

d) canon now has a full frame DPAF sensor.

the only disadvantage is the fact that you can't use rangefinder lenses on it, nor FD lenses. however you can use EF, F, OM, C/Y, Leica R, Rellei, Pentax K, M42. more than enough if using old glass gives you a lump in your pants.

I would take that camera - use a C/Y 35-70mm + 24/28/35mm IS + 50mm 1.8 + 40mm pancake and call life good.

I'd make it full spectrum and get Astronomik in camera body filters for it.

 

[Loswr]

The 6D was/is immensely popular.

Evidence?

What evidence? You're that kind of poster that would doubt any numbers from any source, and frankly, what's the point in persuading users in a forum that consists 50% of spam and nonsense and basically is about rumors? Perhaps it is a rumor that the 6D is popular... although I know a lot of photographers using it on a professional level and not having the 5D mk III.

Anecdotal. Besides, why would anyone ever believe that an entry-level, affordable FF dSLR from the market-leading brand would be popular?!?

 

[Etienne]

We’re told that “at least one of the three mirrorless cameras coming in 2016 will feature 4K video recording”, though the size of the image sensor was unknown.</p>
<p>We’ve heard from a few places that we’ll see a fixed lens mirroress camera along the lines of the Leica Q and Sony RX1 R, but we don’t know what the sensor size would be, one would hope it would be full frame. The other two mirrorless cameras would be a new APS-C model, as well as the introduction of a full frame model, which we assume would be the camera most likely to shoot 4K.</p>
<p>The current estimate on when such products would be announced is the end of August, in time for Photokina 2016 in Cologne, Germany.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

except you're guessing.

there's been no real credible rumor about canon doing a full frame mirrorless to date, outside of "we're looking at it to see if it's worthwhile".

it would be dumb as f.. for canon to come out with a FF mirrorless when they can't even support a APS-C mirrorless in terms of optics.

btw, WTF is a fixed lens mirrorless - that's a fixed lens compact.

canon coming out with three mirrorless in 2016-17 makes sense. they would be refreshing the M10, M3 and a newer model that has a built in EVF - matching basically the powershot Gx series.

to add to this.

the ONLY way that IMO, I could see canon doing a full frame mirrorless is EF mount.

it would honestly make the most sense:

a) it falls in canon's sensor patent porfolio as they don't have a ton of patents dealing with offset microlenses.

b) by the time you add on a healthy grip, there is no difference in camera depth between a short registration distance mount and the 42mm EF mount.

c) keeps the EF mount continuity and allows canon to experiment and see how well a mirrorless camera sells.

d) canon now has a full frame DPAF sensor.

the only disadvantage is the fact that you can't use rangefinder lenses on it, nor FD lenses. however you can use EF, F, OM, C/Y, Leica R, Rellei, Pentax K, M42. more than enough if using old glass gives you a lump in your pants.

I would take that camera - use a C/Y 35-70mm + 24/28/35mm IS + 50mm 1.8 + 40mm pancake and call life good.

I'd make it full spectrum and get Astronomik in camera body filters for it.

Canon could just as easily create a new FF mirrorless mount and include an EF adapter with the body. To kick start the new mount they'd only need to release 3 or 4 good lenses at launch, a couple of primes (a 28 with IS and a 50 1.8 IS would do it for me, YMMV) and a 24-70 f/4 IS. This would give them plenty of room to grow the system, and sell new lenses.
As long as there's a couple of decent native mount lenses, I'm happy to adapt my EF lenses as needed (provided of course that they work well on the new body)

 

[rrcphoto]

We’re told that “at least one of the three mirrorless cameras coming in 2016 will feature 4K video recording”, though the size of the image sensor was unknown.</p>
<p>We’ve heard from a few places that we’ll see a fixed lens mirroress camera along the lines of the Leica Q and Sony RX1 R, but we don’t know what the sensor size would be, one would hope it would be full frame. The other two mirrorless cameras would be a new APS-C model, as well as the introduction of a full frame model, which we assume would be the camera most likely to shoot 4K.</p>
<p>The current estimate on when such products would be announced is the end of August, in time for Photokina 2016 in Cologne, Germany.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

except you're guessing.

there's been no real credible rumor about canon doing a full frame mirrorless to date, outside of "we're looking at it to see if it's worthwhile".

it would be dumb as f.. for canon to come out with a FF mirrorless when they can't even support a APS-C mirrorless in terms of optics.

btw, WTF is a fixed lens mirrorless - that's a fixed lens compact.

canon coming out with three mirrorless in 2016-17 makes sense. they would be refreshing the M10, M3 and a newer model that has a built in EVF - matching basically the powershot Gx series.

to add to this.

the ONLY way that IMO, I could see canon doing a full frame mirrorless is EF mount.

it would honestly make the most sense:

a) it falls in canon's sensor patent porfolio as they don't have a ton of patents dealing with offset microlenses.

b) by the time you add on a healthy grip, there is no difference in camera depth between a short registration distance mount and the 42mm EF mount.

c) keeps the EF mount continuity and allows canon to experiment and see how well a mirrorless camera sells.

d) canon now has a full frame DPAF sensor.

the only disadvantage is the fact that you can't use rangefinder lenses on it, nor FD lenses. however you can use EF, F, OM, C/Y, Leica R, Rellei, Pentax K, M42. more than enough if using old glass gives you a lump in your pants.

I would take that camera - use a C/Y 35-70mm + 24/28/35mm IS + 50mm 1.8 + 40mm pancake and call life good.

I'd make it full spectrum and get Astronomik in camera body filters for it.

Canon could just as easily create a new FF mirrorless mount and include an EF adapter with the body. To kick start the new mount they'd only need to release 3 or 4 good lenses at launch, a couple of primes (a 28 with IS and a 50 1.8 IS would do it for me, YMMV) and a 24-70 f/4 IS. This would give them plenty of room to grow the system, and sell new lenses.
As long as there's a couple of decent native mount lenses, I'm happy to adapt my EF lenses as needed (provided of course that they work well on the new body)

reading is hard .. right?

they don't have the patent porfolio for full frame sensors with a short registration distance, not only that they'd have to create an entire new lens array.

 

[AvTvM]

I also expect 3 new mirrorless Canon cameras in 2016, quite differently:

* NO MILC with FF-sensor + new native short-flange-distance lens lineup ("EF-X") from Canon any time soon. Canon is in no way capable to make a fully competitive offering versus Sony A7/R/S II. Unfortunaetly, since I would buy it.

2 new EOS M bodies (APS-C) in 2016
a) EOS "M4 Pro" - built-in EVF, 80D sensor + DPAF and hopefully EOS UI/firmware; pitted against Sony A6300
b) plus one cheaper, very compact lower-end body; M3 innards and dumbass powershot firmware, maybe called M20

3) plus some fixed lens 1" sensor camera with 4k video and Powershot UI/firmware - pitted against Sony RX10 II or RX100 IV

 

[LoneRider]

I am really liking this forum.

rrcphoto, I must admit, adding a 4th mount does seem, well, ripe for consumer confusion. And honestly, a FF mirrorless, is going to be a niche product. Tooling for a 4th camera lens mount does seem excessive.

Have a deeper mirrorless camera to just use EF lenses does make sense. And honestly, if you are going to a mirrorless FF camera, you are doing it for quality of pictures, and adding a bit to the depth of the camera is not too terrible. They've got battery and other mechanical bits to fit in. The added volume might not be really that huge????

So a '6M' could make sense in the lineup, but it is going to be about a $1500 camera, no? 25MP, 4K video, bracketing, and a few other things, could be a really nice little camera. It appears job #1 has been in creating the technology pool under what has been announced at the 1DX-ii, AF, DPAF, on board sensor (we believe) and so on.

Let the product engineering and speculation of what Canon is going to produce from that pool of technology commence.

 

[unfocused]

The 6D was/is immensely popular.

Evidence?

What evidence? You're that kind of poster that would doubt any numbers from any source, and frankly, what's the point in persuading users in a forum that consists 50% of spam and nonsense and basically is about rumors? Perhaps it is a rumor that the 6D is popular... although I know a lot of photographers using it on a professional level and not having the 5D mk III.

Anecdotal. Besides, why would anyone ever believe that an entry-level, affordable FF dSLR from the market-leading brand would be popular?!?

Maybe anecdotal-plus. The 6D has consistently been the best selling full frame DSLR on Amazon's list of top sellers (current sitting at No. 5 among all DSLRs.) Indeed, it has often been the only full frame DSLR to crack the top 10.

 

[3kramd5]

Since this is Canon related rumour, this camera wont come in 2016 but somtime after 2020 when 6k will be standard across the competition.

That would be silly since there is no 6k standard.

 

[ecka]

We’re told that “at least one of the three mirrorless cameras coming in 2016 will feature 4K video recording”, though the size of the image sensor was unknown.</p>
<p>We’ve heard from a few places that we’ll see a fixed lens mirroress camera along the lines of the Leica Q and Sony RX1 R, but we don’t know what the sensor size would be, one would hope it would be full frame. The other two mirrorless cameras would be a new APS-C model, as well as the introduction of a full frame model, which we assume would be the camera most likely to shoot 4K.</p>
<p>The current estimate on when such products would be announced is the end of August, in time for Photokina 2016 in Cologne, Germany.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

except you're guessing.

there's been no real credible rumor about canon doing a full frame mirrorless to date, outside of "we're looking at it to see if it's worthwhile".

it would be dumb as f.. for canon to come out with a FF mirrorless when they can't even support a APS-C mirrorless in terms of optics.

btw, WTF is a fixed lens mirrorless - that's a fixed lens compact.

canon coming out with three mirrorless in 2016-17 makes sense. they would be refreshing the M10, M3 and a newer model that has a built in EVF - matching basically the powershot Gx series.

to add to this.

the ONLY way that IMO, I could see canon doing a full frame mirrorless is EF mount.

it would honestly make the most sense:

a) it falls in canon's sensor patent porfolio as they don't have a ton of patents dealing with offset microlenses.

b) by the time you add on a healthy grip, there is no difference in camera depth between a short registration distance mount and the 42mm EF mount.

c) keeps the EF mount continuity and allows canon to experiment and see how well a mirrorless camera sells.

d) canon now has a full frame DPAF sensor.

the only disadvantage is the fact that you can't use rangefinder lenses on it, nor FD lenses. however you can use EF, F, OM, C/Y, Leica R, Rellei, Pentax K, M42. more than enough if using old glass gives you a lump in your pants.

I would take that camera - use a C/Y 35-70mm + 24/28/35mm IS + 50mm 1.8 + 40mm pancake and call life good.

I'd make it full spectrum and get Astronomik in camera body filters for it.

Canon could just as easily create a new FF mirrorless mount and include an EF adapter with the body. To kick start the new mount they'd only need to release 3 or 4 good lenses at launch, a couple of primes (a 28 with IS and a 50 1.8 IS would do it for me, YMMV) and a 24-70 f/4 IS. This would give them plenty of room to grow the system, and sell new lenses.
As long as there's a couple of decent native mount lenses, I'm happy to adapt my EF lenses as needed (provided of course that they work well on the new body)

reading is hard .. right?

they don't have the patent porfolio for full frame sensors with a short registration distance, not only that they'd have to create an entire new lens array.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=21572.msg414922#msg414922
:

 

[pvalpha]

As a person who is more interested in stills than video, I say that 4k is a "nice to have" not a "must have" in any camera I consider. Especially considering there are some decent options for 4k video cameras out there that would be far more palatable in terms of price and connectivity. That said, I'd consider a 4k camera in the same performance range I was looking for as having a preferable feature over a similar camera without it. Not to mention price... I'd be willing to spend a small premium on it, but not a significant one - as 4k (and eventually 8k) will be those... "Oh, I want video" moments that I haven't specifically prepared for. In which case the camera at hand is the best camera for the job.

Cause if you're going out to shoot video, you're likely to take the camera that will do the best job for the environment you're working in and make your life easier in post.

Just my opinion.

 

[rrcphoto]

We’re told that “at least one of the three mirrorless cameras coming in 2016 will feature 4K video recording”, though the size of the image sensor was unknown.</p>
<p>We’ve heard from a few places that we’ll see a fixed lens mirroress camera along the lines of the Leica Q and Sony RX1 R, but we don’t know what the sensor size would be, one would hope it would be full frame. The other two mirrorless cameras would be a new APS-C model, as well as the introduction of a full frame model, which we assume would be the camera most likely to shoot 4K.</p>
<p>The current estimate on when such products would be announced is the end of August, in time for Photokina 2016 in Cologne, Germany.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

except you're guessing.

there's been no real credible rumor about canon doing a full frame mirrorless to date, outside of "we're looking at it to see if it's worthwhile".

it would be dumb as f.. for canon to come out with a FF mirrorless when they can't even support a APS-C mirrorless in terms of optics.

btw, WTF is a fixed lens mirrorless - that's a fixed lens compact.

canon coming out with three mirrorless in 2016-17 makes sense. they would be refreshing the M10, M3 and a newer model that has a built in EVF - matching basically the powershot Gx series.

to add to this.

the ONLY way that IMO, I could see canon doing a full frame mirrorless is EF mount.

it would honestly make the most sense:

a) it falls in canon's sensor patent porfolio as they don't have a ton of patents dealing with offset microlenses.

b) by the time you add on a healthy grip, there is no difference in camera depth between a short registration distance mount and the 42mm EF mount.

c) keeps the EF mount continuity and allows canon to experiment and see how well a mirrorless camera sells.

d) canon now has a full frame DPAF sensor.

the only disadvantage is the fact that you can't use rangefinder lenses on it, nor FD lenses. however you can use EF, F, OM, C/Y, Leica R, Rellei, Pentax K, M42. more than enough if using old glass gives you a lump in your pants.

I would take that camera - use a C/Y 35-70mm + 24/28/35mm IS + 50mm 1.8 + 40mm pancake and call life good.

I'd make it full spectrum and get Astronomik in camera body filters for it.

Canon could just as easily create a new FF mirrorless mount and include an EF adapter with the body. To kick start the new mount they'd only need to release 3 or 4 good lenses at launch, a couple of primes (a 28 with IS and a 50 1.8 IS would do it for me, YMMV) and a 24-70 f/4 IS. This would give them plenty of room to grow the system, and sell new lenses.
As long as there's a couple of decent native mount lenses, I'm happy to adapt my EF lenses as needed (provided of course that they work well on the new body)

reading is hard .. right?

they don't have the patent porfolio for full frame sensors with a short registration distance, not only that they'd have to create an entire new lens array.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=21572.msg414922#msg414922
:

Gee I don't know.. it's not a full frame sensor, so basically all it is an EF-M camera with a canon made focal reducer.

so what they could do that with the current EF-M

the same problem applies - the current 24MP APS-C sensor in a short registration distance camera reeks to the high heaven for corner handling.

 

[rrcphoto]

I am really liking this forum.

rrcphoto, I must admit, adding a 4th mount does seem, well, ripe for consumer confusion. And honestly, a FF mirrorless, is going to be a niche product. Tooling for a 4th camera lens mount does seem excessive.

Have a deeper mirrorless camera to just use EF lenses does make sense. And honestly, if you are going to a mirrorless FF camera, you are doing it for quality of pictures, and adding a bit to the depth of the camera is not too terrible. They've got battery and other mechanical bits to fit in. The added volume might not be really that huge????

So a '6M' could make sense in the lineup, but it is going to be about a $1500 camera, no? 25MP, 4K video, bracketing, and a few other things, could be a really nice little camera. It appears job #1 has been in creating the technology pool under what has been announced at the 1DX-ii, AF, DPAF, on board sensor (we believe) and so on.

Let the product engineering and speculation of what Canon is going to produce from that pool of technology commence.

if you take a look at the SL1 form factor.

that could be the same form factor as a Mirrorless full frame - it's actually smaller than the A7RII - sans flash housing at the top.

so what does it have to be another mount other than the EF mount?

rip out the mirror and penta mirror viewfinder, put in an EVF - the 2.36M dot EVF from the DC-EVF1 is fine thanks, add in a tilting screen. use the 20MP DPAF sensor from the 1DX generation ..

done?

 

[ecka]

We’re told that “at least one of the three mirrorless cameras coming in 2016 will feature 4K video recording”, though the size of the image sensor was unknown.</p>
<p>We’ve heard from a few places that we’ll see a fixed lens mirroress camera along the lines of the Leica Q and Sony RX1 R, but we don’t know what the sensor size would be, one would hope it would be full frame. The other two mirrorless cameras would be a new APS-C model, as well as the introduction of a full frame model, which we assume would be the camera most likely to shoot 4K.</p>
<p>The current estimate on when such products would be announced is the end of August, in time for Photokina 2016 in Cologne, Germany.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>

except you're guessing.

there's been no real credible rumor about canon doing a full frame mirrorless to date, outside of "we're looking at it to see if it's worthwhile".

it would be dumb as f.. for canon to come out with a FF mirrorless when they can't even support a APS-C mirrorless in terms of optics.

btw, WTF is a fixed lens mirrorless - that's a fixed lens compact.

canon coming out with three mirrorless in 2016-17 makes sense. they would be refreshing the M10, M3 and a newer model that has a built in EVF - matching basically the powershot Gx series.

to add to this.

the ONLY way that IMO, I could see canon doing a full frame mirrorless is EF mount.

it would honestly make the most sense:

a) it falls in canon's sensor patent porfolio as they don't have a ton of patents dealing with offset microlenses.

b) by the time you add on a healthy grip, there is no difference in camera depth between a short registration distance mount and the 42mm EF mount.

c) keeps the EF mount continuity and allows canon to experiment and see how well a mirrorless camera sells.

d) canon now has a full frame DPAF sensor.

the only disadvantage is the fact that you can't use rangefinder lenses on it, nor FD lenses. however you can use EF, F, OM, C/Y, Leica R, Rellei, Pentax K, M42. more than enough if using old glass gives you a lump in your pants.

I would take that camera - use a C/Y 35-70mm + 24/28/35mm IS + 50mm 1.8 + 40mm pancake and call life good.

I'd make it full spectrum and get Astronomik in camera body filters for it.

Canon could just as easily create a new FF mirrorless mount and include an EF adapter with the body. To kick start the new mount they'd only need to release 3 or 4 good lenses at launch, a couple of primes (a 28 with IS and a 50 1.8 IS would do it for me, YMMV) and a 24-70 f/4 IS. This would give them plenty of room to grow the system, and sell new lenses.
As long as there's a couple of decent native mount lenses, I'm happy to adapt my EF lenses as needed (provided of course that they work well on the new body)

reading is hard .. right?

they don't have the patent porfolio for full frame sensors with a short registration distance, not only that they'd have to create an entire new lens array.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=21572.msg414922#msg414922
:

Gee I don't know.. it's not a full frame sensor, so basically all it is an EF-M camera with a canon made focal reducer.

so what they could do that with the current EF-M

the same problem applies - the current 24MP APS-C sensor in a short registration distance camera reeks to the high heaven for corner handling.

No, it won't be an EF-M camera, it would be an EF camera.

 

[Cali Capture]

from my perspective Canon would use EOS mount to do a 4K Mirrorless first. The greatest market advantage Canon has is "Lens Loyalty". I offen laugh when I read post here about leaving Canon for XYZ and switching there kit for more of this or that (DR, ISO, 4K). As photographers we all should know that our most valuable resource is "time"! It takes an incredible amount of time & money to efficiently sell off and the buy a new mount & Kit all while stating in business!
All of the recent Canon executive interviews acknowledge some very basic facts, 4k consumes a lot of power and memory space currently. So, You can provide a higher spec camera with a larger body even when you are dropping the mirror and prism! Canon has become the market leader foremost because of it's autofocusing glass. It has backed up that with market leading pro cameras such as the Cine line, 1D's, and 5Drs bodys. Others have their nitch and their own system loyalty, but nobody covers the pro market as well as Canon!
The biggest weakness I see in Canon's lineup is a good EOS "video' body below the C series. It makes sense that a mirrorless would be that camera, with the body size to balance EOS glass. Canon can use that extra space for processing, memory and batteries!

 

[rrcphoto]

Reading is easy.
Dismissing an arrogant blowhard with no inside knowledge is even easier.

it's pretty easy to read though canon's patent applications. no insider knowledge required.

try harder.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Don't try too hard with 4K, Canon. It's still early if you increase the video resolution in a sub 10k camera for the first time at the 10th anniversary of the 5D2, in 2018. When you are the last of the manufacturers who offers 4K on a broad basis. While you have proven with the 1DC you could have been the first.

Well, that's great advice. After all, the sales data show how badly Canon's market share has suffered. Clearly, 4K is critically important to a vast majority of buyers.

They actually have had big losses in the DSLR/Mirrorless video market. If not for ML they'd have really, really, really fallen off as their stock body video features are way behind anyone else.

And, once again, only people who sit inside and run spreadsheets care whether they manage to get by with delivering less for more, people who actually go outside and use their equipment care about the features and what it can deliver. Maybe try getting away from the spreadsheets.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

most of the people crying about 4k would never shoot it, but just want to see it on a spec - look my camera shoots 4k..

anyone that is seriously needing 4K is already shooting it, and not waiting for canon.

that's a pretty bizarre justification for Canon

 

[Loswr]

Canon is in no way capable to make a fully competitive offering versus Sony A7/R/S II.

You just keep slapping that mirror, don't you? Do you think repetition will make it correct? :

 

[Loswr]

Don't try too hard with 4K, Canon. It's still early if you increase the video resolution in a sub 10k camera for the first time at the 10th anniversary of the 5D2, in 2018. When you are the last of the manufacturers who offers 4K on a broad basis. While you have proven with the 1DC you could have been the first.

Well, that's great advice. After all, the sales data show how badly Canon's market share has suffered. Clearly, 4K is critically important to a vast majority of buyers.

They actually have had big losses in the DSLR/Mirrorless video market. If not for ML they'd have really, really, really fallen off as their stock body video features are way behind anyone else.

And, once again, only people who sit inside and run spreadsheets care whether they manage to get by with delivering less for more, people who actually go outside and use their equipment care about the features and what it can deliver. Maybe try getting away from the spreadsheets.

Where are the 'DSLR/Mirrorless video market' sales data published?

I guess it hasn't occurred to you that you are not the universal arbiter of what features are important to the majority of buyers. Try comprehending that there's a big world out there, and your personal priorities aren't as representative of that world as you seem to think.