Quad-Pixel AF and a global shutter coming in 2021?

Mar 13, 2020
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Quad-Pixel Af, 8K and global shutter in one and same camera? I find that very hard to believe.
An earlier rumour talked about a 21MPixel sensor/camera with global shutter. I find that much more likely.

I'm with you on resolution. Its not going to be 8K/40+MP but more likely close to the current 1Dx series (20-24-28MP). And I doubt it will be released before the Olympics. There might be some in testing there though.
 

MiJax

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Mar 30, 2016
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How come everybody salivates at global shutter for video and nobody mentions the 800lb gorilla in the room: Flash?

Sync at all shutter speeds. Fill flash across 100ft distances with fast big flash units.....

I like the idea of a global shutter for action photography, the ability to shoot silent is addicting to my wildlife photography. The only requirement I would have is they need to output the full 14 bit file.

As you mention, native high speed flash sync would be cool, but I rarely use flashes. That makes it more like the cute 2 pound kitty in the corner;).
 
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privatebydesign

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Jan 29, 2011
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How come everybody salivates at global shutter for video and nobody mentions the 800lb gorilla in the room: Flash?

Sync at all shutter speeds. Fill flash across 100ft distances with fast big flash units.....
Because most people don't understand flash sync, and those that do think that global shutters are the answer to everything, they aren't. Find me a fast big flash unit that doesn't cost $1,000's, cameras and flashes have grown up together and whilst very low power flashes can have exceptionally fast durations once you want any kind of power output the duration time goes way up. Most flashes will have a full power duration close to 1/200 sec because that is what they have needed to be because that is general shutter sync speed, one begat the other.
 

dolina

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Dec 27, 2011
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This is exactly how stock traders react if you confront them that stock-picking is an illusion of skill (see Daniel Kahneman, thinking fast and slow work). It's their job so they rather defend it. What would you rather like to hear when doing your work that your skilled or based on luck? People tend to see personal outcomes more as a result of skill. While outcomes of other are more a result of randomness in their eyes (look up contribution bias). Predicting the future accurate is an illusion as well IMO. To many variables going on in the world and rare events.

If you didn't like Fooled by Randomness by Nicholas Taleb try the book from Daniel Kahneman, thinking fast and slow. The evidence you asked can be find over there. Widely respected guy and a Nobel Prize winner. Try not to be biased against me just because I quoted you about your speculation about the release date of the R1. I highly recommend those books, give them a read with an open mind. If your opinion is still different after that no worries. Each on their own.

The problem IMO in your previous posts is you gather loose bits of info and make up a story of it (and seem extremely confident about it). Based on some research you think you have the whole picture and can predict the future. In reality you have a few pieces (information) of the puzzle. What if the pieces (of information) you don't own and you don't know exist, have a bigger effect on the outcome than the pieces you already have (info)?

Look up illusion of validity a cognitive bias. Last week you seem overly confident the R1 doesn't get released this year or before 2024 (just because that is the pattern Canon usually follows with the 1DX). This rumor is pointing in a different direction (if it's true idk, time will tell). I don't speculate on that just noticing some fallacies in your posts. Let me do the search for you ' Illusion of validity is a cognitive bias in which a person overestimates his or her ability to interpret and predict accurately the outcome when analysing a set of data, in particular when the data analysed show a very consistent pattern—that is, when the data "tell" a coherent story '

Since your also into trading have a look here as well: The Illusion of Stock-picking .

Lotsa words with little to say. Pls tag me when you have any evidence other than rumors to back up the R1. Better yet reply back when you buy your R1.

For those wondering I did not participate in this thread until he tagged me.
 
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This all sounds great but none of it matters unless they can give us a true live feed off the sensor to the EVF at the top FPS in ES. The 20FPS slideshow on the R5/R6 is great in that it is blackout free (as is the 12FPS MS slideshow) but it is still a slideshow and if you take your finger off the shutter mid-way in a burst you are brought back to the live EVF view and realize what you've been looking at for the past second or so wasn't reality. This can be a bit jolting and interfere with getting a second burst off as the subject (in my case BIF) gets closer.

Currently I spend my shooting days doing about 50% with R5 and 50% with A9II. The one big difference I notice in tracking the faster, erratic BIF is the slideshow of the R5 compared to the A9II's live feed. But the R5's EVF shooting experience at top FPS is still well ahead of anything else out there that I've tried (A7RIV, Z7, Z50) other than the A9/A9II.

My final verdict on the R5's AF and EVF shooting experience will come this spring when I finally get my swallows back to shoot with the R5.
 

TAF

EOS RP
CR Pro
Feb 26, 2012
445
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I wonder if the R1 will have a somewhat larger body than the R5? I just received my R5, and am enjoying learning a new camera (my 5D3 was exact 7 years old when I traded it for the R5). But I find the R5 body just a little small on the left side; the right side fits my hand nicely, and I can reach all the buttons, but the left doesn’t offer as much purchase as the 5D3 did.

Not that I would go back, but I would seriously consider an upgrade going forward for a more comfortable hold.
 

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,153
764
I wonder if the R1 will have a somewhat larger body than the R5? I just received my R5, and am enjoying learning a new camera (my 5D3 was exact 7 years old when I traded it for the R5). But I find the R5 body just a little small on the left side; the right side fits my hand nicely, and I can reach all the buttons, but the left doesn’t offer as much purchase as the 5D3 did.

Not that I would go back, but I would seriously consider an upgrade going forward for a more comfortable hold.
BG-R10, problem solved, the R1 will be heavier than an R5 with a battery grip.
 

mdcmdcmdc

7Dii, M5, 100 (film)
CR Pro
Sep 4, 2020
57
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The real loser so far is Nikon. Hopefully they turn around too. We definitely need competition otherwise Canon will become lame duck again like they were between 2014 till 2019.
Indeed. While I've never been a fan of their cameras, I think it would be tragic for the industry if they were to bail.
 
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Daner

AE-1 Program
Aug 15, 2017
108
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danethomasphotography.com
How come everybody salivates at global shutter for video and nobody mentions the 800lb gorilla in the room: Flash?

Sync at all shutter speeds. Fill flash across 100ft distances with fast big flash units.....

None of which is worth a damn if the venue doesn't permit flash photography. Red-carpet reception lines might, but most sporting events and concerts do not.
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
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462
Reason why I do not believe why a 1-Series MILC will come out in 2021 as of this writing
  • Canon Inc is a for profit company that will produce products in line with customers needs/wants so long as it is profitable
  • Customers of the 1-Series like bulk buying photo news agencies surveyed between 2017-2020 wanted an SLR and not a MILC
  • EF 600mm & 400mm were updated to Series III in 5-Sep-2018
  • 1D X Mark III was announced 378 days ago and was initially released in some markets on February 2020 while others got it as late as July 2020
  • Market for flagship bodies is too small to support more than 1 "new" one at the same time
  • Having 2 "new" flagships at the same time would halve that market, doubles the R&D cost and would not pay for the R&D of last year's model
  • 1D X Series sees a replacement every ~4 years to coincide with the Summer Olympics that occurs months later
  • Not enough RF mount lenses
  • No 300mm, 400mm, 500mm, 600mm or even 800mm are available now
Will the R1 be priced at
  • $4,499 to compete with the Sony a9 II?
  • $6,499 to compete with Nikon and Canon's 1D X Mark III?
  • $7,149 to cover any development cost projected reduction of economies of scale?


To be honest I was surprised Canon even bothered offering the 1D X Mark III because of the RP, R and Ra bodies then it dawned on me that those buying a 1-Series body are very conservative with their mission-critical hardware so prefer SLRs over MILC.

Some reasonable points here. Canon had a great year in 2020 it really went on the front foot and all out on mirrorless.
The 1DX III was almost like an anomaly. It really did seem to be designed with the Olympics in mind and by asking professional sports photographers what they want. While its not necessarily a bad strategy its a conservative one. Following the needs of people who are happy with what they have you may not be catering for a new upcoming generation of sports photographers who may see some of the benefits of mirrorless. Especially if mirrorless autofocus proves better than autofocus with a mirror.
I think Canon can make an R1 better is all ways than the 1DXIII except in terms of battery life.
If they don't do that, Sony surely will.
For the me the lack of lens is less of an issue as the EF lens will work fine on it.
They perhaps only need to bring out an RF 400mm 2.8 .

If they do bring it out the price will be premium again on the 1DX III
I think they will also have until 2022 to have it ready for the Olympics. For me this is another reason why it might arrive.
I don't think the Olympics would work out at all if it were held this year.
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
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We definitely need competition otherwise Canon will become lame duck again like they were between 2014 till 2019.
Sure Competition is good for Canon and for Canon users but I would say it was far from a lame duck from 2014 to 2019.
In that period I bought the 5DIII (which was a 2012 release I think (great camera but unfortunately couldn't swim in the sea), a 5DSR and a 5DIV.
The 5DIII and 5DIV in particular are excellent cameras. The 5DSR is great at ISO 100 and on a tripod. I would call them no excuse cameras. If you can't take a good photograph with them its not because they are a bad camera but that the photographer needs to improve.
I never felt the need or want to switch to Sony cameras in this period.
Canon have certainly pulled out all the stops with the R5 and R6 and mirroless has advantages. It would be very hard to show side by side on the same subject a better image from them than a 5DIV.
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
412
414
If its a sports camera I doubt it will have 8k (45mpixel). I bet its more like 30mpixel and 6k or something. Though I might be wrong. Since they managed to get 45mpixel with 20fps out of the R5, it may be very well possible for the R1...

Coming from the R5 I mostly hope for:
- a full size HDMI port
- 4k50 and 4k100 without overheat and with audio
- 1080p480
- more physical buttons (especialy a mode dial, dedicated ISO button and WB button)
 
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usern4cr

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Sep 2, 2018
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I'd be surprised if the camera had 8K. The 1D body has always prioritized FPS, and 8K resolution would limit that.
I think that an R1 would have to have 4K video, with quad pixels apparently.
But I can see that having 8K and quad pixels might be too much.
I've heard of 6K Apple monitors being sought by some lately.
So I wonder if they may have 6K quad pixel video? That might be a compromise they can afford.
 

dolina

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Dec 27, 2011
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Some reasonable points here. Canon had a great year in 2020 it really went on the front foot and all out on mirrorless.

The 1DX III was almost like an anomaly. It really did seem to be designed with the Olympics in mind and by asking professional sports photographers what they want. While its not necessarily a bad strategy its a conservative one.

Following the needs of people who are happy with what they have you may not be catering for a new upcoming generation of sports photographers who may see some of the benefits of mirrorless.

Especially if mirrorless autofocus proves better than autofocus with a mirror.

I think Canon can make an R1 better is all ways than the 1DXIII except in terms of battery life.

If they don't do that, Sony surely will.

For the me the lack of lens is less of an issue as the EF lens will work fine on it.
They perhaps only need to bring out an RF 400mm 2.8 .

If they do bring it out the price will be premium again on the 1DX III

I think they will also have until 2022 to have it ready for the Olympics. For me this is another reason why it might arrive.

I don't think the Olympics would work out at all if it were held this year.
Note... this is how you have a discussion.

2020 turned out better than projected by Canon. A few months back it was reported they have inched into 45.4% of the a shrinking camera market. To me that means that their volume of shipping products was least impacted among all the brands. A good thing if you want Canon to be solvent so your system stays relevant and a bad thing if you want Canon to innovate due to competition.

When the EOS R came out in 2018 it signaled to me that there would be no more further development of the EF mount and whatever bodies made available by Sep 2018 will be continued to be produced until demand is too expensive to cater for.

This makes the 1D X Mark III somewhat of a paradox. I was expecting the R1 in 2020 but often with mission critical hardware you tend to err on being conservative. Last thing Reuters, Getty, EPA, etc want is new tech that may not function as expected.

This is a fundamental reason why I see the R1 to more likely appear by Q1 2024.

Will the release of the R1 significantly offset the loss on the 1D X Mark III? This will cause the Osborne Effect.

It is very difficult and very expensive to move from 1 system to another if you have a large and built up ecosystem in place. My guess is that Sony gave a very generous discount to AP to switch their whole operations to their hardware last year. I would not be surprised that Sony gave up any margin to get them as a client to legitimize their system among photo news agencies.

RF mount lens will perform better than EF mount lens due to more modern engineering and better materials science. Canon needs to transition at least 80% of the L lenses before the R1 would be taken seriously.

If Canon positioned the R1 as more expensive than the $6,499 1D X Mark III then I see it as very probable to come out this year but that would make the Sony a9 II half it's price. :oops:

Will there be a 2022 Olympics? :) If I was the OIC I'd push everyone back by 4 years. Tokyo 2024, Paris 2028, etc.
 
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