Reminder: Announcements on September 17, 2012
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Wahoowa said:Meh said:Wahoowa said:samirachiko said:Hope to see a really innovative canon 6D like the Nikon D600!
Articulated screen, built-in time-lapse, built in flash ecc
PLEASE NO a stupid touch screen
+1
You and I think alike. I will only find the new 6D useful if it's in a compact size and comes with flipped screen & built-in flash. Built-in time lapse would be nice. But the most important is good AF and has MA.
This will be a perfect backup to my 5D3.
For anyone thinking of a 6D over a 5D3, it will be disappointing if there's no MA but that would certainly be a good feature to leave out in order to position this body sufficiently below the 5D3. Yes, I know the 7D has MA but other than the FF sensor the specs of this body are all below the 7D so they could get away with leaving MA out.
If you shoot with a 5D3 now and use flash then you must have external flashes already... why then would you be so interested in a pop-up flash on a 6D as a backup to your 5D3?
Yes, I do own external flashes. Right now, 3 600EX-RT's to be exact.
Certainly, there are situations that I could could not rug around my gear. And some of those occasions, it's best just to have only one camera and one lens to be as low profile as possible. I used to carry a 60D for that. I really liked the 60D for its compact size and flipped screen, but not having MA was a deal breaker at the end.
Ok, fair enough.
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Meh said:ecka said:Meh said:ecka said:candyman said:ecka said:Get ready for $2500 MSRP.
A $2500 MSRP would mean a €2500 MSRP price in Europe. That would be a NON-competitive price. For 400 euro more, you can get the 5D MKIII. It just does not make sense unless it is the opening price that needs to go down with at least 600 euro but only after 4 to 6 months. By then, most may have saved the money to buy the 5D MKIII
5D3 is $3500 MSRP, regardless of the actual retail prices. I think it is logical to assume that the retail price of this rumored poor-man's 5D would be lower than it's MSRP as well. The old 5D2 is $2200 MSRP, but you can get it for $1899 from amazon (atm). If 6D was $2000 MSRP and even lower retail price, then who is going to buy either 5D3 or 7D2 (which should be near $1900 MSRP) ?? Not me!
Currently, the only reason to buy a 7D over a 60D or 5D2 is for the speed, AF, etc. for sports shooting... and those benefits will still exist over this alleged 6D. So (as I said above) I see it the other way around... who will buy the 6D over a 5D3 or 7D? Yes of course some will buy it... if you don't shoot sports, and don't need the advanced features of a 5D3, and understand the IQ advantage of FF over a crop (eg. 60/650D)... then this 6D is perfect... but how many consumers fit into that category? You do, and so do many people on this site.... but that is a small slice of the market Canon needs to hit to make decent sales volume.
Sorry, I see no logic in that. I think there are many more not-so-rich enthusiast photographers (like me, perhaps) than sport/action PROs. I did buy 7D a few years ago, but not for the fps or a bit better sensor (going from 500D). I couldn't afford 5D2 back then and I liked 7D AF system, rugged body, CF slot (I was going to upgrade to 5D series anyway, so I didn't want to waste $ on SD for 60D), AFMA (for my 2 Sigmas), wireless flash control, good battery, ergonomics ... and I still think that 7D is one of the best Canon DSLR in history.
IMHO, most of us would buy 6D for less than $2000 over 5D3 or 7D2. 4.5fps is not that slow
Right, I agree... there is a market (e.g. you and people like you) but I'm questioning the size of that market. I didn't suggest there are more sports shooters than non-sports shooters. And we don't need to consider "rich people" because they are a narrow slice of any market as well (depending how you define rich but perhaps we can agree there are few people with so much money that they wank into a store and say give me the most expensive camera you have). $2k is no small potatoes for a body so the purchaser typically has a reason to plunk down that kind of cash... so what is the reason in the case of a 6D?
Assume any 1-series body are out of the question due to price and price is an issue... and consider the choices you face:
6D vs 5D3: 5D3 is $1400 more but if you need the features of the "pro features" of the 5D3 then 6D is not even in your sights
6D vs. 7D: If you are into sports, wildlife, etc. 7D is the better choice for a few reasons (debatable of course)
6D vs. 60/650D: Price difference is $1200 bucks for same features other than sensor size and most consumers out there are not acutely aware of the IQ benefits of the FF sensor.
So, the typical purchaser of a 6D would be someone who does not need the pro features of a 5D3, does not shoot much sports/wildlife, and is aware of the IQ advantage of FF and willing to pay extra $1200 for it (not to mention the investment in lenses to realize that IQ advantage).
Sure, many of the folks on say Canon Rumors are excited to get a FF camera for $2k or less... but that is a relatively small market. Most of the world doesn't know what FF is and the sales guy in Best Buy isn't going to have much luck upselling from a 650D to a 6D because "it has a FF sensor".
Actually, I know many photographers who are using 5D2 for sports, wildlife, photojournalism and they'd never touch a crop camera like 7D, purely because of the IQ difference, but they would appreciate a smaller, lighter and cheaper body with better AF system.
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ecka said:
Are you somehow offended that I'm wondering how big is the market potential of a camera that happens appeals to you so you have to defend by saying you know "many" photographers using the 5D2 for sports... what is many? 5? 10? 20? Of course there are some people using every device for any given purpose. I'm talking about market potential... thousands and thousands of units. And I'm wondering what the typical profile of 6D customer will be and how common that will be by thinking of how the 6D lines up against the other Canon bodies in terms of features vs. price vs. intended use.
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Meh said:
I'm not offended, really
. I'm just stating my position and trying to explain why I think so .There are reasons why people prefer 5D2 over other more or less expensive bodies. I'm just saying that when it comes to APS-C vs FF for the same price, many would choose FF even if it was slower (fps) and had less AF points. While such smaller/lighter and cheaper FF body may be very attractive even for 5D3 owners and many of them would be happy to trade their 5D3 for 6D+$1000 (if such camera turns out to be a real). Not to mention the $1500 difference predicted by others
.
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Not true imho. 7D now is as noisy as 60D = 550D...whatta said:Lee Jay said:
I am also waiting for the 70d (mini 7d with a less noisy sensor)
if not coming soon I will be forced to buy a 650d
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Meh said:
My long-discontinued T2i has a feature I used all the time that the 7D lacks - video crop mode. So does the 60D.
The 5D3/1Dx AF system need to be adapted to a new high-end crop body, hopefully with f/8 AF and with flexible video crop modes. A new and improved sensor would also be nice.
I shot my 50,000th shot with my 20D today, and I'll be keeping that until Canon decides that an improved 7D is worth their time.
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what is not true? sorry, I did not get your point.DzPhotography said:Not true imho. 7D now is as noisy as 60D = 550D...whatta said:Lee Jay said:
I am also waiting for the 70d (mini 7d with a less noisy sensor)
if not coming soon I will be forced to buy a 650d
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DzPhotography said:Not true imho. 7D now is as noisy as 60D = 550D...whatta said:Lee Jay said:
I am also waiting for the 70d (mini 7d with a less noisy sensor)
if not coming soon I will be forced to buy a 650d
Of course the 7D is as noisy as the 60D... it uses the same sensor. But if a 70D (or 7D2) is announced it will likely have a new sensor which could possibly be less noisy but that's all speculation.
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Lee Jay said:
Don't know much about DSLR video but to my understanding video crop mode is pretty much a crutch feature... the resulting low-res video cropped from the centre of the frame is a weak replacement for a longer lens or moving closer. So, no wonder it's not in the 7D or higher. But again, I don't know much about video so... perhaps I'm wrong.
Not sure what you mean by adapting the 1DX AF to a crop body. The 7D already has stellar AF comparable to the 1D4. And until the 1DX gets f/8 AF don't count on it in a 7D replacement.
A 20D is great body... if you were shooting sports though there is no comparison to the 7D... better comparison is to the 60D and then, sure, you may not want the upgrade.
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ecka said:Meh said:
I'm not offended, really
There are reasons why people prefer 5D2 over other more or less expensive bodies. I'm just saying that when it comes to APS-C vs FF for the same price, many would choose FF even if it was slower (fps) and had less AF points. While such smaller/lighter and cheaper FF body may be very attractive even for 5D3 owners and many of them would be happy to trade their 5D3 for 6D+$1000 (if such camera turns out to be a real). Not to mention the $1500 difference predicted by others
Well then I don't get it... I'm talking about the market size potential of the alleged 6D and you're only responding that it'll be a good camera and some people will buy it. I don't dispute that it'll be a great camera or that some people will buy it.
So you're saying that if there was a FF for the same price as an APS-C many would choose the FF. Yep, your're right... but it's not going to be the same price, it'll be $1200 more than the top end Rebel and will be $700 more than a 7D for less performance... other than the IQ of the sensor... and that's my point... that's the only reason to buy it over a Rebel or 7D but to how many people will it be worth the extra money. Don't think about it in terms of yourself or any Canon Rumors member... everyone that spends any time on here is already an "enthusiast" and an advanced photography consumer compared to the millions that walk into Best Buy and pick up a Rebel.
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Well it's 930am Aussie Time, so should be about the same Japan Time.
Where's my announcements?
seeing as i've already said I don't care about 6D, i'm wondering what else to care about. I'll never afford a 200-400, although i'd like to play 'guess-the-price-Bingo'
Where's my announcements?
seeing as i've already said I don't care about 6D, i'm wondering what else to care about. I'll never afford a 200-400, although i'd like to play 'guess-the-price-Bingo'
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Me too, but only if Canon has a sensor larger than 1/1.7"; otherwise the RX100 is getting my purchase.
Meh said:
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Meh said:ecka said:Meh said:
I'm not offended, really
There are reasons why people prefer 5D2 over other more or less expensive bodies. I'm just saying that when it comes to APS-C vs FF for the same price, many would choose FF even if it was slower (fps) and had less AF points. While such smaller/lighter and cheaper FF body may be very attractive even for 5D3 owners and many of them would be happy to trade their 5D3 for 6D+$1000 (if such camera turns out to be a real). Not to mention the $1500 difference predicted by others
Well then I don't get it... I'm talking about the market size potential of the alleged 6D and you're only responding that it'll be a good camera and some people will buy it. I don't dispute that it'll be a great camera or that some people will buy it.
So you're saying that if there was a FF for the same price as an APS-C many would choose the FF. Yep, your're right... but it's not going to be the same price, it'll be $1200 more than the top end Rebel and will be $700 more than a 7D for less performance... other than the IQ of the sensor... and that's my point... that's the only reason to buy it over a Rebel or 7D but to how many people will it be worth the extra money. Don't think about it in terms of yourself or any Canon Rumors member... everyone that spends any time on here is already an "enthusiast" and an advanced photography consumer compared to the millions that walk into Best Buy and pick up a Rebel.
Let me remind you that the starting argument was about 6D MSRP, which I think should be around $2500. It would be $1000 cheaper than 5D3 and $600 more than the expected 7D replacement ($1900). You can't have a new FF DSLR for cheap, not yet. Now, why are you comparing 6D with a Rebel?
That's ridiculous. Compare it with something that's at least weather-sealed + some other "pro features". With FF you are not getting twice the camera, but you are getting twice the picture (2.5 times to be exact). So, 2.5 x 4.5fps is actually more than 1 x 8fps ;D. I may be wrong, but I think that $2100 MSRP is just a wishful thinking. Just like $1500 D600 with 16bit sensor in it
.If your position is like - 6D must be $2100 or less, otherwise 5D3 or 7D would be a better camera, because you think that most people are more interested in speed than IQ and that's the politics of the market - then good luck
. I'm gonna get some sleep now.
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