Review - Zeiss Milvus 85mm f/1.4 T*

[Mr Bean]

Without autofocus, how can anyone even dream of using any of these lenses?

Are you serious?

Look, you read this website. How many times have people said "Don't buy Sigma because of unreliable autofocus" or "I bought my Sigma Art lens then sold it because autofocus was crap."

Clearly autofocus is of singular importance with lenses such that regardless of optical properties, people will not want or use a lens if there isn't a near-perfect autofocus mechanism in the lens.

Its like this, and bear in mind, I rarely use my 15mm Zeiss, but.....
I'm married to my Canon gear. I love it, I spend a lot of time, emotion, enjoyment with it. But in comparison, my Zeiss is like a mistress, something to enjoy on occasion

 

[lidocaineus]

Without autofocus, how can anyone even dream of using any of these lenses?

Are you serious? The same way that all photographers did until recently. MF has its drawbacks, to be sure, but you might find (as I did), that using MF glass actually boosts your creativity and in some situations is actually more enjoyable (organic) to use.

Here's a piece I did for Digital Photography School (DPS) on the topic: http://digital-photography-school.com/why-every-photographer-should-use-a-manual-focus-lens/

There's a HUGE difference between modern day dSLRs and film SLRs in terms of pentaprism/pentamirror brightness as well as viewfinder help, specifically split prisms, rangefinder-like focus aids, and mini-prisms etched onto the focus plane. Manual focusing back then was de-rigeur and extremely natural to perform, even at wide open apertures.

These days you have none of that, because it's assumed you will be utilizing autofocus. The closest you get is a focus confirmation or focus peaking, neither of which is even remotely close to things like split-prisms. Even the alternate manual focusing screen you can add to certain Canon dSLRs aren't even close to the accuracy you could get in the past.

There's a reason photo 101 students were required to get manual-only film cameras up until the 2000s; not only did you learn about proper exposure, you learned how to quickly and accurately focus, and it wasn't hard (these were 101 classes, for people who had never picked up a camera before). Good luck trying to get a total newb to do that today.

 

[candc]

Without autofocus, how can anyone even dream of using any of these lenses?

Are you serious? The same way that all photographers did until recently. MF has its drawbacks, to be sure, but you might find (as I did), that using MF glass actually boosts your creativity and in some situations is actually more enjoyable (organic) to use.

Here's a piece I did for Digital Photography School (DPS) on the topic: http://digital-photography-school.com/why-every-photographer-should-use-a-manual-focus-lens/

There's a HUGE difference between modern day dSLRs and film SLRs in terms of pentaprism/pentamirror brightness as well as viewfinder help, specifically split prisms, rangefinder-like focus aids, and mini-prisms etched onto the focus plane. Manual focusing back then was de-rigeur and extremely natural to perform, even at wide open apertures.

These days you have none of that, because it's assumed you will be utilizing autofocus. The closest you get is a focus confirmation or focus peaking, neither of which is even remotely close to things like split-prisms. Even the alternate manual focusing screen you can add to certain Canon dSLRs aren't even close to the accuracy you could get in the past.

There's a reason photo 101 students were required to get manual-only film cameras up until the 2000s; not only did you learn about proper exposure, you learned how to quickly and accurately focus, and it wasn't hard (these were 101 classes, for people who had never picked up a camera before). Good luck trying to get a total newb to do that today.

manual focusing on the sony a7 bodies is better than any slr or dslr i have used. the old split prism was accurate but only works in the center. focus peaking and magnification in the viewfinder is really the way to go if you like to use manual focus lenses. its less hassle than using af in many ways. you are not constantly fighting the camera on picking a focus point and fiddling with settings. works great on static shots

 

[3kramd5]

manual focusing on the sony a7 bodies is better than any slr or dslr i have used. the old split prism was accurate but only works in the center. focus peaking and magnification in the viewfinder is really the way to go if you like to use manual focus lenses. its less hassle than using af in many ways. you are not constantly fighting the camera on picking a focus point and fiddling with settings. works great on static shots

While I agree that MF on the A7 is nice (specifically due to VF magnification), i have found zero use for peeking. I just can't get it to help, because it shows practically anything with high contrast as being in focus. MF is also a little compromised by the mostly fly-by-wire lenses. Regardless, I love it.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

manual focusing on the sony a7 bodies is better than any slr or dslr i have used. the old split prism was accurate but only works in the center. focus peaking and magnification in the viewfinder is really the way to go if you like to use manual focus lenses. its less hassle than using af in many ways. you are not constantly fighting the camera on picking a focus point and fiddling with settings. works great on static shots

While I agree that MF on the A7 is nice (specifically due to VF magnification), i have found zero use for peeking. I just can't get it to help, because it shows practically anything with high contrast as being in focus. MF is also a little compromised by the mostly fly-by-wire lenses. Regardless, I love it.

I have to agree on focus peeking (for my own use). I rarely enable it and prefer above all to rely on visual confirmation via true DOF either on mirrorless or via an EF-S Focus screen on the 6D. It is the true DOF that makes focus fun for me, as I can watch focus come into existence anywhere in the frame. I enjoy that organic process of watching the image come to life.

 

[J.R.]

As good as this lens might be, somehow I don't see myself going back to a MF lens, ever!

 

[candc]

manual focusing on the sony a7 bodies is better than any slr or dslr i have used. the old split prism was accurate but only works in the center. focus peaking and magnification in the viewfinder is really the way to go if you like to use manual focus lenses. its less hassle than using af in many ways. you are not constantly fighting the camera on picking a focus point and fiddling with settings. works great on static shots

While I agree that MF on the A7 is nice (specifically due to VF magnification), i have found zero use for peeking. I just can't get it to help, because it shows practically anything with high contrast as being in focus. MF is also a little compromised by the mostly fly-by-wire lenses. Regardless, I love it.

I have to agree on focus peeking (for my own use). I rarely enable it and prefer above all to rely on visual confirmation via true DOF either on mirrorless or via an EF-S Focus screen on the 6D. It is the true DOF that makes focus fun for me, as I can watch focus come into existence anywhere in the frame. I enjoy that organic process of watching the image come to life.

I am really surprised to hear the dislike for focus peaking. I use it all the time in manual focus mode in the a7rii. I think the combination of focus peaking and magnification in conjunction is very fast, easy to use, and accurate.

There are situations with a low contrast subject that peaking doesn't aid much but I don't find it ever interferes with focusing.

 

[3kramd5]

manual focusing on the sony a7 bodies is better than any slr or dslr i have used. the old split prism was accurate but only works in the center. focus peaking and magnification in the viewfinder is really the way to go if you like to use manual focus lenses. its less hassle than using af in many ways. you are not constantly fighting the camera on picking a focus point and fiddling with settings. works great on static shots

While I agree that MF on the A7 is nice (specifically due to VF magnification), i have found zero use for peeking. I just can't get it to help, because it shows practically anything with high contrast as being in focus. MF is also a little compromised by the mostly fly-by-wire lenses. Regardless, I love it.

I have to agree on focus peeking (for my own use). I rarely enable it and prefer above all to rely on visual confirmation via true DOF either on mirrorless or via an EF-S Focus screen on the 6D. It is the true DOF that makes focus fun for me, as I can watch focus come into existence anywhere in the frame. I enjoy that organic process of watching the image come to life.

I am really surprised to hear the dislike for focus peaking. I use it all the time in manual focus mode in the a7rii. I think the combination of focus peaking and magnification in conjunction is very fast, easy to use, and accurate.

There are situations with a low contrast subject that peaking doesn't aid much but I don't find it ever interferes with focusing.

It's not that I don't like it, per se. I merely haven't found it to be particularly reliable. I've had it show me things as being in focus which obviously were not. I may be using it wrong, however.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

manual focusing on the sony a7 bodies is better than any slr or dslr i have used. the old split prism was accurate but only works in the center. focus peaking and magnification in the viewfinder is really the way to go if you like to use manual focus lenses. its less hassle than using af in many ways. you are not constantly fighting the camera on picking a focus point and fiddling with settings. works great on static shots

While I agree that MF on the A7 is nice (specifically due to VF magnification), i have found zero use for peeking. I just can't get it to help, because it shows practically anything with high contrast as being in focus. MF is also a little compromised by the mostly fly-by-wire lenses. Regardless, I love it.

I have to agree on focus peeking (for my own use). I rarely enable it and prefer above all to rely on visual confirmation via true DOF either on mirrorless or via an EF-S Focus screen on the 6D. It is the true DOF that makes focus fun for me, as I can watch focus come into existence anywhere in the frame. I enjoy that organic process of watching the image come to life.

I am really surprised to hear the dislike for focus peaking. I use it all the time in manual focus mode in the a7rii. I think the combination of focus peaking and magnification in conjunction is very fast, easy to use, and accurate.

There are situations with a low contrast subject that peaking doesn't aid much but I don't find it ever interferes with focusing.

I actually really enjoy the organic process of watching something come into focus and visualizing the perfect point of focus, and the color overlay of the focus peaking diminishes that process for me personally.

 

[slclick]

manual focusing on the sony a7 bodies is better than any slr or dslr i have used. the old split prism was accurate but only works in the center. focus peaking and magnification in the viewfinder is really the way to go if you like to use manual focus lenses. its less hassle than using af in many ways. you are not constantly fighting the camera on picking a focus point and fiddling with settings. works great on static shots

While I agree that MF on the A7 is nice (specifically due to VF magnification), i have found zero use for peeking. I just can't get it to help, because it shows practically anything with high contrast as being in focus. MF is also a little compromised by the mostly fly-by-wire lenses. Regardless, I love it.

I have to agree on focus peeking (for my own use). I rarely enable it and prefer above all to rely on visual confirmation via true DOF either on mirrorless or via an EF-S Focus screen on the 6D. It is the true DOF that makes focus fun for me, as I can watch focus come into existence anywhere in the frame. I enjoy that organic process of watching the image come to life.

I am really surprised to hear the dislike for focus peaking. I use it all the time in manual focus mode in the a7rii. I think the combination of focus peaking and magnification in conjunction is very fast, easy to use, and accurate.

There are situations with a low contrast subject that peaking doesn't aid much but I don't find it ever interferes with focusing.

I actually really enjoy the organic process of watching something come into focus and visualizing the perfect point of focus, and the color overlay of the focus peaking diminishes that process for me personally.

Some of us apply a little more right brain, some a little more left. Just another thing which makes the photography experience so varied and expansive.

 

[candc]

manual focusing on the sony a7 bodies is better than any slr or dslr i have used. the old split prism was accurate but only works in the center. focus peaking and magnification in the viewfinder is really the way to go if you like to use manual focus lenses. its less hassle than using af in many ways. you are not constantly fighting the camera on picking a focus point and fiddling with settings. works great on static shots

While I agree that MF on the A7 is nice (specifically due to VF magnification), i have found zero use for peeking. I just can't get it to help, because it shows practically anything with high contrast as being in focus. MF is also a little compromised by the mostly fly-by-wire lenses. Regardless, I love it.

I have to agree on focus peeking (for my own use). I rarely enable it and prefer above all to rely on visual confirmation via true DOF either on mirrorless or via an EF-S Focus screen on the 6D. It is the true DOF that makes focus fun for me, as I can watch focus come into existence anywhere in the frame. I enjoy that organic process of watching the image come to life.

I am really surprised to hear the dislike for focus peaking. I use it all the time in manual focus mode in the a7rii. I think the combination of focus peaking and magnification in conjunction is very fast, easy to use, and accurate.

There are situations with a low contrast subject that peaking doesn't aid much but I don't find it ever interferes with focusing.

I actually really enjoy the organic process of watching something come into focus and visualizing the perfect point of focus, and the color overlay of the focus peaking diminishes that process for me personally.

Using a mirrorless camera does make you feel removed from the scene. Focus peaking, live histogram, and zebras add another layer of disconnect on top of it all. I don't enjoy it as much either but it is very functional.

 

[3kramd5]

manual focusing on the sony a7 bodies is better than any slr or dslr i have used. the old split prism was accurate but only works in the center. focus peaking and magnification in the viewfinder is really the way to go if you like to use manual focus lenses. its less hassle than using af in many ways. you are not constantly fighting the camera on picking a focus point and fiddling with settings. works great on static shots

While I agree that MF on the A7 is nice (specifically due to VF magnification), i have found zero use for peeking. I just can't get it to help, because it shows practically anything with high contrast as being in focus. MF is also a little compromised by the mostly fly-by-wire lenses. Regardless, I love it.

I have to agree on focus peeking (for my own use). I rarely enable it and prefer above all to rely on visual confirmation via true DOF either on mirrorless or via an EF-S Focus screen on the 6D. It is the true DOF that makes focus fun for me, as I can watch focus come into existence anywhere in the frame. I enjoy that organic process of watching the image come to life.

I am really surprised to hear the dislike for focus peaking. I use it all the time in manual focus mode in the a7rii. I think the combination of focus peaking and magnification in conjunction is very fast, easy to use, and accurate.

There are situations with a low contrast subject that peaking doesn't aid much but I don't find it ever interferes with focusing.

I actually really enjoy the organic process of watching something come into focus and visualizing the perfect point of focus, and the color overlay of the focus peaking diminishes that process for me personally.

Using a mirrorless camera does make you feel removed from the scene. Focus peaking, live histogram, and zebras add another layer of disconnect on top of it all. I don't enjoy it as much either but it is very functional.

Definitely, I find a lot of the EVF overlays to be distracting. I shoot with the electronic level active, but nothing else in the image frame.

I also typically don't have it preview the exposure, but sometimes will.

 

[JoFT]

Thank you Dustin for the nice review of the Milvus 85mm f1.4. I had it in my hands recently: great experience. I will definetely budget it: I do have a very old Zeiss Planar f1.4 85mm from my Contax times - and I use it from time to time even with my DSLR´s (and on µ43 as well): I definitely want to get one.


In discussion with manual focus: I do not mind. I have the SIGMa 85mm f1.4 but I am struggling with the Autofocus there...

On remark on the size of the lens [/size][font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]In combination the the 6D and smaller bodies my fingers are touching the lens. In combination with 7D/5D-Type bodies the lens is fine...[/font][size=78%]

 

[jaayres20]

I would love to hear about someone's experience with this lens and manual focusing using the AF confirmation on Canon cameras. How much trouble will I have with AF confirmation and anything more open than 2.8. Why is AF confirmation not accurate with wider apertures like 1.4?

 

[gsealy]

I have this Zeiss lens and others. The big things for me are the contrast and the color. The image just has more depth and feel to it than those taken with other lens that I have. I guess I could best sum it up best by saying the photos have a "wow" factor to them.

The biggest thing to handle manual focus for me was to replace the standard focus screen. The are a number of different types available and they take about 1 minute to replace. Once I had that I was able to easily achieve focus. And the situation can also be handled by making some depth of field calculations/estimates. The are a number of apps for this.

 

[suburbia]

I bought the Zeiss Distagon T* 35mm for my FF 5D series camera as my first taste of Zeiss MF camera work. I enjoyed the unique look of the picture file but was always disappointed with the overall sharpness of scenes particularly the edges.

I have today come across their new Milvus range via this thread and I find myself tempted by the 50mm 1.4 to replace my little used 35mm. Although I love the 85mm range I could not afford both the 50mm and the 85mm and feel that the 50mm would be the better all-rounder.

Anyone with similar experience of the previous 35mm lens and moving to 50mm MF lens?

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

I bought the Zeiss Distagon T* 35mm for my FF 5D series camera as my first taste of Zeiss MF camera work. I enjoyed the unique look of the picture file but was always disappointed with the overall sharpness of scenes particularly the edges.

I have today come across their new Milvus range via this thread and I find myself tempted by the 50mm 1.4 to replace my little used 35mm. Although I love the 85mm range I could not afford both the 50mm and the 85mm and feel that the 50mm would be the better all-rounder.

Anyone with similar experience of the previous 35mm lens and moving to 50mm MF lens?

If you can wait a month or so, I have the Milvus 1.4/50mm arriving in a few weeks for review.

 

[suburbia]

Thanks! I watched your informative sequence of reviews of the 85mm on Youtube last night, it certainly whet my appetite for this new lens range!

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

Thanks! I watched your informative sequence of reviews of the 85mm on Youtube last night, it certainly whet my appetite for this new lens range!

Cool. I have fairly high expectations for the 1.4/50mm, but it does face some strong competitors in the Sigma 50 ART and the Tamron 45 VC (which I now own and is quite excellent). Should be fun.

 

[NWPhil]

P.S. In December a company paid more than 10 times what I spent to acquire the lens that took the picture that they licensed...a MF lens. I guess I was able to dream it

not that in anyway I doubt, but really would love to see that picture, or point to it if you can. Thanks