Shot wedding with 5DIII, dissapointed in AF

[shizam1]

Obviously, it takes longer to focus in extreme low light, but, as noted, something is going on that seems different. I see the lens focus, and the shutter will then operate, but the AF achieved light delays 1/2 sec to 1.5 sec after focus is apparently achieved.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. It would seem to focus, and then hesitate for a period of time before signalling that focus had been achieved. Maybe double checking?

 

[kevinhan]

I came from a 5d2 and also notice the same thing about my 5d3. Single shot AF with center point is noticeably slower than on the 5d2.

 

[Axilrod]

Ok I played around with my 85 for like 15 minutes going between spot and point area expansion and both of them locked on pretty quickly, definitely not a couple seconds. The 85 isn't a very fast focusing lens of course, but it's definitely faster on the 5DIII than the II. The only time the focus was very slow was in live view mode, but through the viewfinder it was very fast. If this was your experience with the 5DIII you may want to play around some more, even after 2 months I'm still amazed by how often the camera just nails the focus. Especially in Servo mode with fast moving subjects, but one shot is a walk in the park. In my mind comparing the AF between the II and III is like a joke, I feel like the 5DII might as well not even have AF after using the III.

I wouldn't be too discouraged, it may just be something minor.

 

[pwp]

Frankly I'm astonished with the AF on the 5D3. It's quick and accurate right out to the outer points. And that's in One Shot or AI Servo. In low light it it genuinely knocked my socks off...but then I'm coming mainly from 1-Series experience. The Mk4 AF is easily confused in ahem, gentle lighting.

At risk of repeating what others have been saying, the sheer accuracy of the 5D3 AF has given new flexibility to the use of very wide apertures. Shooting handheld at f/1.4 has always been a bit hit & miss, just a minute sway of the body will shift focus enough to lose your focus point enough to junk the shot. Every new Canon that's come out since the 1Ds I've wanted to trust AI Servo in close f/1.4- f/2.8 portrait situations to keep track of my essential focus point. And it looks like the 5D3 is the first in my generally rough & ready experience to punch through with this ability.

PW

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Ok I played around with my 85 for like 15 minutes going between spot and point area expansion and both of them locked on pretty quickly, definitely not a couple seconds. The 85 isn't a very fast focusing lens of course, but it's definitely faster on the 5DIII than the II. The only time the focus was very slow was in live view mode, but through the viewfinder it was very fast. If this was your experience with the 5DIII you may want to play around some more, even after 2 months I'm still amazed by how often the camera just nails the focus. Especially in Servo mode with fast moving subjects, but one shot is a walk in the park. In my mind comparing the AF between the II and III is like a joke, I feel like the 5DII might as well not even have AF after using the III.

I wouldn't be too discouraged, it may just be something minor.

I wouldn't say the 5D2 AF is necessarily a joke when talking one shot center point. Indoors in a bright kitchen at night 5D3 did have a quite better hit rate than 5D2 with a 24 1.4 at 1.4 in two tests. But in a super dark room at night they basically had the same hit rate, 5D3 not better at all, both missed about 25% of the time by a fair degree, the absolutely 100% dead on rate was some deal lower than that, very tricky subjects and conditions though.

Overall the 5D3 is solid for one shot, sometimes noticeably better other times about the same rarely a trace worse than 5D2.

The 7D is the one that gets dusted by both for super low DOF fast aperture one-shot accuracy. Both my 5D2 and 5D3 easily beat it. 5D3 has best one shot out of 20D,40D,50D,7D for sure and better than 5D2 also, although only in some circumstances is the difference to any noticeably degree.

The 7D and 5D3 can drive AI Servo on 300 2.8 quite a bit faster than the 5D2.

I actually find the 7D, for soccer, so far, doing worse than the 5D2, once by quite a lot. It seems like the 5D3 will be the best, although the 5D2 can actually track quite well at times so long as the players are not really close and moving in certain ways (I also find my 5D2 does soccer radically better when the hidden AF assists are turned on, if you leave them off, then it suddenly does no better than an xxD at best in my experience; when players are not too close the 5D2 can almost do soccer as well as 1D2, when they are very close and moving fast then it seemed to get beaten by the 1D2 for sure) and I did notice the 5D3 do a few super weird things, like tracking a goalie slowly jogging out to toss out the ball with AF points kept totally on the goalie the whole time and a few times for one frame it suddenly grabbed the background stands at least 40' behind before jumping back perfectly on track the next frame, there was absolutely zero reason for it to have done that, very, very odd. It also once slightly missed initial focus but then instead of correct properly it someone jumped to like 5' in front of me to grab a railing only fractionally in the bottom of the frame and not even near any AF point. Sometimes it would slightly lag behind or jump ahead of a player too, although mostly the frames were still usable if not really quite what they should be but then again with the other cameras those misses were usually enough to make the frame unusable. When it did suddenly jump way out of wack the next frame was always perfect, with the others sometimes the next frame would be a touch off still.

I really need more time with all of them for soccer though to really say, lighting can make a huge difference and the shooting circumstances and lenses were not always the same so far. And one game is hardly time to fiddle with all the settings. I basically just left it on default soccer mode.

7D seemed pretty decent for surfing though.

Sometimes the 5D3 doesn't really seem to AF any better than the 5D2 although other times it does (talking about keeping AF to center point, certainly if you go away from center point then it's much better 90% of the time). It seems to AF better than the 7D and xxD. So I'm pretty sure it will be the best of all the non-1 series, with the 5D2 for many situations the next best. How much better overall than the 5D2 I can't quite say yet. Sometimes it has seemed to do quite noticeably better, other times just barely matching the 5D2 (but given that I have yet to hit any circumstance with the 5D2 seeming to ever do noticeably better than the 5D3 and I have sometimes hit upon the reverse, it seems clear the 5D3 is better, hard to say how much yet though).

Interestingly, it was in the most brutal lighting and subjects of all where the 5D2 seemed to give the 5D3 a run for it's money with 24mm 1.4 shooting. The 7D did way worse in that situation than either.

In low because it's indoors but a well lit room nonetheless the 5D3 seemed to pull a fair amount ahead of the 5D2 with 24mm 1.4 shooting. In this case 5D3 was kind and then 5D2 next but noticeably behind and then behind the 5D2 were 7D and xxD at the back of the pack. So with somewhat better but still night indoor lighting the 5D3 pulled ahead but not at all when the lighting was truly abysmal indoor type.

Both those tests were center point only.

5D2 outer points fail to lock on many subjects which can be annoying, 5D3 ones tend to lock. Having compared accuracy when both lock yet though. My feeling was the 5D2 and 7D had a bit more accuracy when the outers locked than the 20D,30D,40D,50D although the 40D,50,7D would lock much more easily, especially the 7D, than the 5D2 outer points.

Need to use it a fair amount more to really say.

 

[pwp]

5D2 outer points fail to lock on many subjects which can be annoying, 5D3 ones tend to lock.

"5D3 ones tend to lock"... True. And they tend to lock accurately. The old 9 points array used to give a me a lock on the outside points, but it far too often turned out to be wrong. Not wrong enough to see on the camera monitor, but wrong enough to dump at the sorting and ranking stage. It didn't take long to only trust the centre point.

PW

 

[jordanbstead]

i have been under the impression that the primes are not fast auto focusing lenses. i dont have any yet but i have worked with plenty of people who have. i have especially heard the 85mm L is a bit of a dog with AF. i'm on the fence right now about incorporating them into my work but even if i do i cant see myself not continuing to rely on the 24-70 and the 70-200.

i wonder if a more accurate test of the new AF system might be performed using the 70-200mm F2.8L? anyone have more experience that could enlighten us on this matter?

The 85L has a different focusing system than any other Canon lens, and is notoriously slow. No one buys one for fast AF. And primes are known for the fastest AF. Take the 135L, for example.

 

[wockawocka]

My wife and I shot a wedding yesterday, we brought two 5DII bodies, and one 5DIII body. I didn't bring out the 5DIII until the reception because I didn't want to use it for the critical stuff until I've spent more time with it. For the reception ( private room inside restaurant ) we were using the 85 f/1.2L II, 35 f/1.5L and 50 f/1.4. I lost many good shots because the 5DIII took 2-3 seconds to focus. I tested focusing in the low light with all the lenses, and the results were similar ( well, the 85 was even slower, because that lens is just slow focusing ). For AF, I had "one shot" selected, and the center point with the 4 surrounding points. I couldn't easily do a side by side because I didn't have two of any one lens, but I did switch lenses between the bodies and played around some. The 5DIII was as slow, or possibly even slower than the 5DII to achieve focus. The amout of natural light in the reception was around ISO1600, f/1.4 and 1/60. Oh, and I had a flash on, putting out that red focus assist as well during all this testing! Anyway, just giving people a heads up on what I experienced, and I've seen some others post the same. I've also seen people post results of miraculous AF improvement with the 5DIII...

FIRST thing you do is disable the red AF assist light. That's what's causing your delay. You shouldn't need to use it at all. (Which is why I think the ST-E controller (new one) doesn't have the light on it).

You shouldn't need AF assist until at the very least ISO6400 - 1/60 - 2.8
Remember too, despite realising it you will be moving, your subject will be slightly and yet the AF light is slower and relies on static objects. The 5D3 AF system can AF in full moonlight, you don't need it.

 

[jonathan7007]

Coming later to this thread, I decided to add a reply here because there is so much good information in the older messages. I hope everyone read all the posts. Well, I should say I am glad I read all the posts because there are good suggestions to try when facing [apparently]slow auto focus on their Mk3's.

...because I am one of them.

I have had some good conversations with Canon. I am a professional photographer who will use the body for paid work when back home from this long personal travel, so I have to sort this out.

I have tried the camera with the lenses I have with me: 85mm f1.8, 24Lf1.4, and the 24-70mm The 24-70 has some kind of problem with focus motor and is going to Canon this morning. But even with the others there were delays. I KNOW this isn't the result of careful testing, just a description of my experience in the moment. I am adding a tile to the mosaic of shared experiences with the 5DMk3. I have been shooting with a 5DMk2 for a while. That body is at home.

I have spent several nights shooting with the 24 and 85 in a dark bar where local musicians get together to jam. I am sometimes pretty close. Not a concert -- the lighting is way lower than stage illumination. Some fluorescent light, too. I plan to use this body at wedding receptions, for example, and the challenge will be similar. I too had delays getting any confirmation of focus, and I was set up to require confirmation before shooting. Perhaps I will try allowing the camera to shoot before confirmation but it seem like a bad idea. I tried switching back to manual focus and it seemed more fluid and quick to get shots! Yikes! I was also practicing constant movement of the chosen focus points to train my without-looking muscle-memory-touch.

So I will keep testing, but because I am 6,000 miles closer to Canon's Virginia repair site I may make them swap out my body. Maybe the new one will do all the same things and I will know what I have to do to adjust. But the OP had a similar experience to mine and although there are some excellent suggestions in the thread (which I just stumbled on this morning) I have to be confident in the body.

Thank, especially, to all those people who contributed their thoughts, suggestions, detailed experience with AF settings, and personal testing.

jonathan7007

 

[Bosman]

I have been shooting running events without focus speed issues for normal sports. I even just shot a triathlon and the bikers are flying way faster than a runner and i was able to lock on dead but due to multiple people and having to refocus quick I'd have preferred the 1dm3. For extreme sports i can shoot anything just not muliple quick changes to refocus on diff people at diff distances quickly. If i have time to switch from one person to the next i dont have problems with the focus locking. I just never thought i'd love shooting sports with my next 5d series camera. I love it.

 

[cpsico]

My wife and I shot a wedding yesterday, we brought two 5DII bodies, and one 5DIII body. I didn't bring out the 5DIII until the reception because I didn't want to use it for the critical stuff until I've spent more time with it. For the reception ( private room inside restaurant ) we were using the 85 f/1.2L II, 35 f/1.5L and 50 f/1.4. I lost many good shots because the 5DIII took 2-3 seconds to focus. I tested focusing in the low light with all the lenses, and the results were similar ( well, the 85 was even slower, because that lens is just slow focusing ). For AF, I had "one shot" selected, and the center point with the 4 surrounding points. I couldn't easily do a side by side because I didn't have two of any one lens, but I did switch lenses between the bodies and played around some. The 5DIII was as slow, or possibly even slower than the 5DII to achieve focus. The amout of natural light in the reception was around ISO1600, f/1.4 and 1/60. Oh, and I had a flash on, putting out that red focus assist as well during all this testing! Anyway, just giving people a heads up on what I experienced, and I've seen some others post the same. I've also seen people post results of miraculous AF improvement with the 5DIII...

I can't speak for the other lenses but the 50 1.4 does tend to hunt in low light unless you use just the center point.
I have the 70-200 L is and it doesnt like low low light either, but let me say there is nothing bad about that lens!!! It can focus on my Mark III but its a little to slow for anything thats not going to stay put. The dimmer the light the harder it is to focus for any lens.
I will say my 24-70 2.8 is a hammer and never ever leaves me disapointed. My 16-35 never ever cries in a corner in bad light either. Some lenses are just better than others in low light it seems

 

[wickidwombat]

My 16-35 never ever cries in a corner in bad light either. Some lenses are just better than others in low light it seems

I noticed that the other night shooting a band and wow talk about fast! I had bugger all light though so i was shooting at 12800 f2.8 to keep 1/100 sec

 

[kevinhan]

Made 2 videos comparing 5d Mark 2 and 5d Mark 3 low light AF. Accuracy and consistency aside, 5d Mark II locked focus noticeable faster.

Black cardboard target against white wall. White wall spot metered at 1/100 f2.8 ISO12800. Center AF point only. Procedure was to AF, wait for AF lock, then turn focusing ring to lose focus, AF again, repeat. Photo of target in live view: http://kevinhan.net/old/images/target.jpg

5d2: http://youtu.be/zxkE53t7xyE
5d3: http://youtu.be/M0kaHN2uY2c

You guys who say your 5d3 focuses instantly in low light, do you mean as "fast" as this?

 

[bdunbar79]

Made 2 videos comparing 5d Mark 2 and 5d Mark 3 low light AF. Accuracy and consistency aside, 5d Mark II locked focus noticeable faster.

Black cardboard target against white wall. White wall spot metered at 1/100 f2.8 ISO12800. Center AF point only. Procedure was to AF, wait for AF lock, then turn focusing ring to lose focus, AF again, repeat. Photo of target in live view: http://kevinhan.net/old/images/target.jpg

5d2: http://youtu.be/zxkE53t7xyE
5d3: http://youtu.be/M0kaHN2uY2c

You guys who say your 5d3 focuses instantly in low light, do you mean as "fast" as this?

Instead of doing 1 test you could shoot with it for 4 years like I did. Mark III wins hands down.

 

[kevinhan]

Yes I've been using the 5d2 for 4 years too. My experience with the 5d3 was similar with the thread starter's.

 

[mccallew]

Like the OP, I have the same slow focus issue at weddings. I have shot 5 weddings in the past 4 weeks with the Mk3 and used multiple settings, tried changing focus-release etc. Mk2 -- and even Mk1 -- are faster. Could be the particular body, but my second shooter's experience is the same. Hands down I prefer the Mk3 to the Mk2, but it's focus speed -- not it's accuracy -- leaves much to be desired. With decent light the AF has been rock solid for me, but like the OP at 5 wedding receptions now I've missed moments that I KNOW I would not have with he Mk2. That's frustrating. But, I guess, there is no silver bullet camera out there, and Canon continues to have AF issues even if they've addressed other supposed short-comings.

 

[Z]

My rebel often locks AF like lightning in low light. I generally do a double-take and ask it "Really?!" - the result is usually an out-of-focus shot when viewed at large size.

I know I'm comparing 5Ds and Rebels here, but my point is faster isn't necessarily more (or equally) accurate.

 

[TAR]

My rebel often locks AF like lightning in low light. I generally do a double-take and ask it "Really?!" - the result is usually an out-of-focus shot when viewed at large size.

I know I'm comparing 5Ds and Rebels here, but my point is faster isn't necessarily more (or equally) accurate.

exactly same with my 7D..it locks focus at low light but image at 100percent really out of focus..not even close..so those videos are useless to me atleast..

 

[SandyP]

Not sure what's going on, at all, but in the last few weddings I've shot with the 5D3, it's far faster, far more reliable and far easier to shoot in more AF intensive situations than the 5D2 ever was. And I had the 5D2 since it came out and shot with it at countless weddings. I can finally stop using the center point only.


I haven't had time to really play with my AF settings to really fine tune them for each situations, but I have heard that it can make a big difference to be using it to it's full potential, rather than setting it one way and going from there.

 

[bdunbar79]

Same here Sandy. It appears as though users are getting mixed results though. I'm not sure the cause of this, but it's interesting that after using the 5D Mk II so much, for me, I noticed the faster AF of the Mk III right away, in lower light. Interesting.