Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 OS Art Preorders Start June 22, 2017

[LesC]

The next episode in my series on how to do focus calibration is now live. This one deals with using Reikan FoCal to automate the process and also how to use this in conjunction with the Sigma USB dock or the Tamron Tap In Console.

http://bit.ly/Calibrate2

Excellent video. A bit concerning that on the body/lens tested, the suggested AFMA settings made focus worse. Surely the point of Reikan Focal is to take the guesswork out of testing focus ?

 

[SecureGSM]

easiy explained, as Dustin mentioned not being able to calibrate at infinity due to limited room/space available.
therefore some infitiny values may be not quite correct. in Dustin terms, the "focal bias" being evaluated at one distance but in lens adjustment being done for a completely different distance. therefore, instead of proper adjustment of the "AF curve", we get a distorted one at infinity. makes perfect sense to me.

The next episode in my series on how to do focus calibration is now live. This one deals with using Reikan FoCal to automate the process and also how to use this in conjunction with the Sigma USB dock or the Tamron Tap In Console.

http://bit.ly/Calibrate2

Excellent video. A bit concerning that on the body/lens tested, the suggested AFMA settings made focus worse. Surely the point of Reikan Focal is to take the guesswork out of testing focus ?

 

[[email protected]]

I've just launched the first episode of a three part series on AFMA. What it is, how to do it, how to use software like Reikan FoCal, Sigma USB dock, and Tamron Tap In, and how to do manual calibration.

The playlist is here: http://bit.ly/AFMAPlay

The second episode in the current series goes live tomorrow.

I watched your first video. Very thorough.
A question:
If you perform a full sigma dock cal on a particular Sigma lens and Canon body, will the lens cal still work on a different Canon body by just doing one off-set with the in body AFMA?

That's my experience, yes. The USB dock/Tap In can compensate for LENS focus biases at certain distances. A subsequent AFMA on a different body will compensate for that CAMERA'S focus bias. My 5D Mark IV, for example, has a front focus bias, so almost all lenses need + values for AFMA.

Yes, for this reason, I do my Sigma dock adjustments with my SL1, which doesn't have AFMA, and then I use AFMA on my other bodies to enable all bodies to be adjusted to the same lens. This has worked well for me. With four Sigma lenses and four bodies, I don't have any combinations where there seems to be AF error at a particular focal length.

It is unfortunate that Sigma, Tamron and Canon have been very opaque in their guidance on AFMA. For instance, the above had to be learned by trial and error. We still don't know what the non-linear relationship is between focal distances and dock adjustment values with Sigma lenses, or whether adjusting one set of values may affect the need to adjust others. The docks are great advantages, but instead of acting as marketing assets, they have been branded as a negative - something that these lenses need that first party lenses do not. I think the third party lens vendors need to become very transparent about what is going on technically - which would then show what you are able to adjust that you cannot do with first party lenses.

And, finally, I'd like to see Sigma and Tamron save values for adjustments with different bodies within the lens memory.

-tig

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

I've just launched the first episode of a three part series on AFMA. What it is, how to do it, how to use software like Reikan FoCal, Sigma USB dock, and Tamron Tap In, and how to do manual calibration.

The playlist is here: http://bit.ly/AFMAPlay

The second episode in the current series goes live tomorrow.

I watched your first video. Very thorough.
A question:
If you perform a full sigma dock cal on a particular Sigma lens and Canon body, will the lens cal still work on a different Canon body by just doing one off-set with the in body AFMA?

That's my experience, yes. The USB dock/Tap In can compensate for LENS focus biases at certain distances. A subsequent AFMA on a different body will compensate for that CAMERA'S focus bias. My 5D Mark IV, for example, has a front focus bias, so almost all lenses need + values for AFMA.

Yes, for this reason, I do my Sigma dock adjustments with my SL1, which doesn't have AFMA, and then I use AFMA on my other bodies to enable all bodies to be adjusted to the same lens. This has worked well for me. With four Sigma lenses and four bodies, I don't have any combinations where there seems to be AF error at a particular focal length.

It is unfortunate that Sigma, Tamron and Canon have been very opaque in their guidance on AFMA. For instance, the above had to be learned by trial and error. We still don't know what the non-linear relationship is between focal distances and dock adjustment values with Sigma lenses, or whether adjusting one set of values may affect the need to adjust others. The docks are great advantages, but instead of acting as marketing assets, they have been branded as a negative - something that these lenses need that first party lenses do not. I think the third party lens vendors need to become very transparent about what is going on technically - which would then show what you are able to adjust that you cannot do with first party lenses.

And, finally, I'd like to see Sigma and Tamron save values for adjustments with different bodies within the lens memory.

-tig

Definitely agree with that last point. That would be a great feature.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

The next episode in my series on how to do focus calibration is now live. This one deals with using Reikan FoCal to automate the process and also how to use this in conjunction with the Sigma USB dock or the Tamron Tap In Console.

http://bit.ly/Calibrate2

Excellent video. A bit concerning that on the body/lens tested, the suggested AFMA settings made focus worse. Surely the point of Reikan Focal is to take the guesswork out of testing focus ?

True, and it typically does very well. On occasion, however, my field results don't match the values that Reikan comes up with. The 35L II was just such a lens. I had almost given up on it, but then did a manual calibration, got a figure I liked, and it has worked great. A +3 vs a +1 value would have been close, but not as accurate as the +1 value.

But I've got years of experience calibrating dozens of lenses. I know what I'm doing. For those less experience FoCal is going to make the experience much easier and in most cases will give the best value.

 

[LesC]

Thanks Dustin

 

[Jopa]

Here, my friend. As you wish @$9,999.00 surely is a pure bargain.

https://www.camerasdirect.com.au/sigma-24-70mm-f-2-8-art-lens-for-nikon

They need to make a blind pre-order. Do not announce the price at all. The customers will see their bank statement later and they will be surprised!

LOL! But that's not blind, since you still can see the price. It's just a crazy price. A blind preorder would mean you commit to buy for whatever it takes. Not necessary expensive and overpriced though. Just like a blind trust in the Sigma brand. That's a joke of course Or maybe not, lots Sony fans would probably do it

 

[SecureGSM]

Would this qualify for an absolute blind purchase? You pay $300 as deposit for the lens and price still to be advised. It could be anything in the end. only in Australia

http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod15453.htm

LOL! But that's not blind, since you still can see the price. It's just a crazy price. A blind preorder would mean you commit to buy for whatever it takes. Not necessary expensive and overpriced though. Just like a blind trust in the Sigma brand. That's a joke of course Or maybe not, lots Sony fans would probably do it

 

[LesC]

WEX in the UK have it in stock now at £1399. DP Review have some sample images too: https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art?ref_=pe_1822230_245957160_dpr_nl_268_12

 

[Jopa]

Would this qualify for an absolute blind purchase? You pay $300 as deposit for the lens and price still to be advised. It could be anything in the end. only in Australia

http://www.digitalcamerawarehouse.com.au/prod15453.htm

LOL! But that's not blind, since you still can see the price. It's just a crazy price. A blind preorder would mean you commit to buy for whatever it takes. Not necessary expensive and overpriced though. Just like a blind trust in the Sigma brand. That's a joke of course Or maybe not, lots Sony fans would probably do it

Well, it seems like my joke is not a joke anymore...

 

[SecureGSM]

https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art

after close examination of these images, I am not worried about this lens anymore. lots of chromatic aberations all the way up to F11. mediocre sharpness. not my cup of tea...

 

[Jopa]

https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art

after close examination of these images, I am not worried about this lens anymore. lots of chromatic aberations all the way up to F11. mediocre sharpness. not my cup of tea...

I'm not exactly a 24-70 shooter, but I would like to have a "standard zoom" lens for travelling. Like you know - one lens suits all: portraits & landscapes, nothing outstanding, but usable. I like the Canon 24-70 lens, but no IS is a bummer for me. For portraits it's probably irrelevant, especially in 24-70 focal range, but for everything else I think IS a big plus. I really had high expectations for this Sigma... The new Tamron is the same old one with better coatings (?) and better IS, so I'm not sure if it's a good deal either What should I do?

 

[aceflibble]

What should I do?

Take a look at the Sigma 24-105 f/4 OS. It's a fraction smaller than the Canon 24-105 mkII (though it does take a larger filter) and it's optically a little better than the Canon. (Though it's so close that nine times out of ten you wouldn't notice the difference.) The OS and AF are identical. You mentioned portraits — that 105mm end will do you much better for portraits than the 70mm of the 24-70s would. f/2.8 to f/4 is of little consequence with a 35mm sensor body; if you use an APS-C body then it's a more significant difference, though I still wouldn't worry about it too much. (And for that I'd go for the Sigma 17-70 f/2.8-4 which for Canon APS-C is 28-112mm.) People go nuts about aperture with portraiture but given the choice I'd always go for longer focal length over a stop, and the difference between 70mm and 105mm will give you roughly the same subject separation anyway but with a nicer perspective and compression.

Then for landscape you've still got the 24mm end for your common landscape wide shot, and the extra reach can also be nice for isolating a particular detail.

To me, 24-70mm f/2.8 makes total sense as a studio or professional event coverage kit where you'll likely have a 70-200mm alongside on another body, giving you a full 24-200 range. But for an all-round/travel lens, those 24-70 f/2.8s are a chunky piece of kit and by themselves don't cover enough range, I find. The extra reach of a 24-105 (and the slightly lower weight) really makes them far better for your all-in-one solution.

Though for the record, when it comes to travelling with any of them, I'd ditch them all entirely and pick up a mirrorless camera with a compact zoom. The EOS M line has a couple of all-rounder zooms, and any of the Fuji bodies with their 'kit' 18-55 (which is as sharp as the canon 24-70 and has IS, albeit a stop slower at the longest end) is kind of the most perfect travel camera you can buy. Or for SLR there's the Canon SL1 (soon SL2) which you could pair with the aforementioned Sigma 17-70 to get effectively 28-112mm at a weight the same as just one of the 24-70 or 24-105 lenses. It's much, much nicer to travel with a small APS-C body and a more compact zoom made for APS-C cameras than it is to do the same with a full-size SLR and 'standard' 24-70 or 24-105 zoom. Plus depending on the kinds of places you travel to, it can make a lot of financial sense to take a smaller APS-C kit than a 35mm one; if it gets lost, damaged, or stolen, it's nowhere near as big a problem.


There's no real one answer for an all-in-one lens because everybody is willing to put up with a little more/a little less bulk or range than others will accept, but for what it's worth if you look around you'll find way more people using 24-105s or mirrorless systems for travel/all-rounders, and the 24-70s are more typically reserved for actual work. Not always, but commonly.

 

[SecureGSM]

Oleg,
I will send you a message later on and let's see what we can come up with. 24-105 would not be the lens of my choice as knowing fully well your shooting style and your attention to details ( read: second rate solution is not an option), I am ready to bet my house that you won't be satisfied with the outcomes in 70-105mm range, thats x4.5 zoom factor of the lens for you. F4 is also could be potentially limiting for you at times.

p.s. I cannot resist the urge the following photos are taken at ISO 6400 and F2.8. should I use F4 lens at the time, My ISO will be in 12800 territory which is way too much for the resulting image for me to be satisfactory.
But once again, we wil figure it out.

https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art

after close examination of these images, I am not worried about this lens anymore. lots of chromatic aberations all the way up to F11. mediocre sharpness. not my cup of tea...

I'm not exactly a 24-70 shooter, but I would like to have a "standard zoom" lens for travelling. Like you know - one lens suits all: portraits & landscapes, nothing outstanding, but usable. I like the Canon 24-70 lens, but no IS is a bummer for me. For portraits it's probably irrelevant, especially in 24-70 focal range, but for everything else I think IS a big plus. I really had high expectations for this Sigma... The new Tamron is the same old one with better coatings (?) and better IS, so I'm not sure if it's a good deal either What should I do?

 

[Jopa]

Take a look at the Sigma 24-105 f/4 OS.

Thank you for the reply. I have the Canon's 24-105 3.5-5.6. Got it primarily for video because of STM + IS. I think that's the only FF Canon lens that offers both in one package. I don't use it for stills since it doesn't provide much DoF control at all, and I'm afraid any 24-105 F4 lens won't do it neither. While traveling, the lighting conditions are not always ideal, and I would prefer to keep my ISO as low as I can, and one stop quite often makes a difference, like for example 6400 vs 12800. I'm fine with large and heavy, as long as the lens is under 2 kg / 4.5 lbs - I can live with it I do understand that's 105 is better than 70 for portraits, but I won't be taking head shots with it. It's more for like a person/environment photo, where some compression/tighter persective is welcome, but it doesn't require to be a dedicated portrait lens like a 85 1.4 or 70-200 2.8.

Oleg,
I will send you a message later on and let's see what we can come up with. 24-105 would not be the lens of my choice as knowing fully well your shooting style and your attention to details ( read: second rate solution is not an option), I am ready to bet my house that you won't be satisfied with the outcomes in 70-105mm range, thats x4.5 zoom factor of the lens for you. F4 is also could be potentially limiting for you at times.

p.s. I cannot resist the urge the following photos are taken at ISO 6400 and F2.8. should I use F4 lens at the time, My ISO will be in 12800 territory which is way too much for the resulting image for me to be satisfactory.
But once again, we wil figure it out.

Thank you Alex Great pictures as usually! I think I'm completely with you here. My 5DsR's native ISO is 6400, 12800 would be something programmatically boosted and require very heavy noise reduction, so yes - 1 stop makes a big difference. For now my "to-go" lens is the 35/1.4, and while it's very versatile in terms of optical speed / DoF, it's quite limited in terms of perspective. Going F4 means 3 stops above 1.4. F2.8 is just 2 which I think I can survive. Too bad Sigma doesn't want to make an F2 "standard" zoom which could be just what the doctor ordered

Are you thinking about trying/renting the new Sigma or the new Tamron? I'm still concerned about AF. I know Tamron offers a decent one, plus I've heard their new version is supposed to have even more AF improvements.

This pic was taken @ F/1.4 ISO 2000 1/80s, so it'll be ISO 8000 F/2.8 1/80 or ISO 6400 F/2.8 1/60 (which is on the edge already). F4 @ 1/80s makes it ISO 16000 which my poor camera can't even handle

 

[SecureGSM]

Jopa, sent you a message. yes, I believe that new Tamron 24 70 F2.8 VC G2 may end up being a very strong offering. I explained in details why I see this being a real possibility.

 

[jeffa4444]

WEX in the UK have it in stock now at £1399. DP Review have some sample images too: https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art?ref_=pe_1822230_245957160_dpr_nl_268_12

Whilst the EF 24-70mm f2.8L II USM doesn't have IS its only £ 100 more on Amazon UK and having used it many times one of Canon best zooms optically. The EF 24-70mm f4L IS USM is weak at 50mm but fine at 24mm and 70mm ends.
If I was spending £ 1399 for the Sigma I would seriously consider the EF 24-70mm f2.8L II USM.

 

[Jopa]

WEX in the UK have it in stock now at £1399. DP Review have some sample images too: https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0532453776/sample-gallery-sigma-24-70mm-f2-8-dg-os-hsm-art?ref_=pe_1822230_245957160_dpr_nl_268_12

Whilst the EF 24-70mm f2.8L II USM doesn't have IS its only £ 100 more on Amazon UK and having used it many times one of Canon best zooms optically. The EF 24-70mm f4L IS USM is weak at 50mm but fine at 24mm and 70mm ends.
If I was spending £ 1399 for the Sigma I would seriously consider the EF 24-70mm f2.8L II USM.

Interesting... $1750 vs $1300 in the US. $450 difference. I'm cool if they add IS to the Canon and charge $250 more

While I was looking at the current price @ B&H, someone posted a negative review complaining about AF:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1321309-REG/sigma_24_70mm_f_2_8_dg_os.html (see reviews)