Sigma 85mm f/1.4 DG Art Coming to Photokina [CR3]

[ExodistPhotography]

So what if the lens focuses perfectly each time, but it just happens to be back focusing. Or front focusing each time consistently. This is what micro adjustments fix. Micro adjustments are not to fix bad focusing lenses, but to fine tune them to your particular camera. If you want to avoid this, I suggest you never use a fast aperture. Just saying.. :-/

Yes, but Sigma has a history of inconsistently focusing lenses that you can't solve with AFMA / their USB dock.

I always use the TDP example to show this with the 50 Art:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Sigma-50mm-f-1.4-DG-HSM-Art-Lens.aspx
(pan halfway down until you see the butterfly -- read and mouseover the digits)

And CR's reviewer Dustin Abbott presented a basic head to head hit rate effort while shooting both the 35L II and the 35 Art wide open, and the results were telling:
http://dustinabbott.net/2016/01/sigma-35mm-f1-4-dg-hsm-art-review/
(1/3 of the way down with the school pictures: 92% for the 35L II and 64% for the Sigma)

And it wasn't like the Servo AF incorrectly selected the AF points. Again, from Dustin's review:

"Reviewing the data in Lightroom via a plugin called “Show Focus Points” tells me that I was using AF Servo focus and that focus was locked with the center point square in the middle boy’s face…and yet the lens is actually focused on the far wall. By contrast the Canon 35L II shots in the same situation were all accurately focused."

I don't say this to smear/troll/mock/doubt Sigma -- I say this to spur them on to fix their designs and fulfill the promise of their fine optics.

- A

Well thats not what he was posting about. His statement is that he didnt want to worry with Micro Adjusting lenses. Which is an issues with no matter what brand you use. Canon, Nikon, Sigma, Tamron, etc.. His statement and mine was not if the 85mm would focus correctly each time.. Heck my 50mm STM needs micro adjusting right now.. Just saying..

That said, I do agree that we need a lens that is accurate each time without having to default to Live View to get accurate focusing.

On a side note, I personally would not put to much stock into Dustins reviews. They are flawed by design. In that I mean he test one copy, not a dozen copies and then makes a average of their performance. So he can get a bad copy of one lens, or he can get a fantastic copy thats better then most that hit the shelf. Of course this is a complaint I have with a lot of lens reviewers including DXO's half baked results. So, take it all with a grain of salt. But if everyone says the same thing that its inconsistent, then yea run from it.. LOL :-D

 

[CanonGuy]

Hmm, can't understand the hype for the Sigma 85mm Art too much. The Canon 85L is a wonderful lens, near perfection. Most usable potraits are taken around f2.2-f4 and in this range even the mild CAs are gone. The sharpness matches the OTUS in this range. Anything else like f1.2 is not possible with the 85mm Art anyway.

The only thing which could be improved is the AF of the 85L, but this is portrait lens, not a fast sportslens for travelling along. Moving the huge glass elements takes time and f1.2 is 0.45EV more light than f1.4.

I hope the Sigma 85Art will be a good performer but in history the bokeh often got destroyed with the complexity of the formular. Expect at least 12 Element in 8 Groups

1. You don't understand the hype prolly because you never owned and used an Art lens haha.
2. Again, you are saying that the bokeh often gets destroyed because you prolly never owned an art lens lol.

I own 35 and 50 art which replaced my 35L i and 50L. The art lenses are WAY ahead of the L glasses in terms of sharpness and contrast (I don't care about weather sealing). And the price is sooooo resonable. The hype for 85art is COMPLETELY justified and expected. So excited for this lens and to see what Sigma brings in future. Kudos to Sigma.

 

[CanonGuy]

So what if the lens focuses perfectly each time, but it just happens to be back focusing. Or front focusing each time consistently. This is what micro adjustments fix. Micro adjustments are not to fix bad focusing lenses, but to fine tune them to your particular camera. If you want to avoid this, I suggest you never use a fast aperture. Just saying.. :-/

Yes, but Sigma has a history of inconsistently focusing lenses that you can't solve with AFMA / their USB dock.

I always use the TDP example to show this with the 50 Art:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Sigma-50mm-f-1.4-DG-HSM-Art-Lens.aspx
(pan halfway down until you see the butterfly -- read and mouseover the digits)

And CR's reviewer Dustin Abbott presented a basic head to head hit rate effort while shooting both the 35L II and the 35 Art wide open, and the results were telling:
http://dustinabbott.net/2016/01/sigma-35mm-f1-4-dg-hsm-art-review/
(1/3 of the way down with the school pictures: 92% for the 35L II and 64% for the Sigma)

And it wasn't like the Servo AF incorrectly selected the AF points. Again, from Dustin's review:

"Reviewing the data in Lightroom via a plugin called “Show Focus Points” tells me that I was using AF Servo focus and that focus was locked with the center point square in the middle boy’s face…and yet the lens is actually focused on the far wall. By contrast the Canon 35L II shots in the same situation were all accurately focused."

I don't say this to smear/troll/mock/doubt Sigma -- I say this to spur them on to fix their designs and fulfill the promise of their fine optics.

- A

Instead, please go to Canon and tell them not to make it harder for 3rd parties like Sigma to manufacture lenses with spot on AF. Sony is already letting Sigma use their af technology. I hope Canon gets out of their crappy monopoly attitude and do the same.

And I should also mention, I have 35 and 50 art and both nail focus EVERY SINGLE TIME. Just try the art before purchase, that's it. Hope that's not too hard lol

 

[vscd]

Did you ever shoot the 85L?

Can you read signatures?

So you can see the difference between a shot taken with the 85L and the 85 f/1.4 if both were shot @f/4?

You totally understood it wrong. It was all about CAs. But same question to you... can you see the difference between a shot taken with the already existing Tamron and a 85mm f1.4 Art? I don't think so. And the Tammy has even Vibration control. By the way, the difference between f1.2 and f1.4 is more than f1.4 to 1.8...

But - except for the ability to shoot in darker space - many out there will probably trade better optics wide open @ f/1.4 compared to the 85LII and its (slight) f-stop advantage. YMMV.

This has to be prooven. If you stop down a 85L to 1.4 it could be better than a wide open Sigma Art. Don't be angry about the 85L if you can't afford it. I really like the Sigma Art Line, I just think there are quite a few capable 85mm lenses out there.

 

[abbaen]

I have the Sigma 35mm ART and while I have heard stories of focus being iffy, I didn't need to switch copies. I would actually say it's comparable with Canon's USM speed. I had the Canon 28mm 1.8 and 85mm 1.8 and while it was slightly slower than the 85, it feels just about as fast as the 28mm 1.8. The only times that I wish it was faster was while shooting some really fast hip-hop dance shows, but I think any lens would struggle with the low light and fast movement.

Especially for portraiture, and photo-documentary style wedding/engagement photography, I can't complain at all. Any focus issues are attributed to my user error, not the lens' focusing speed.

That being said, I'm really excited for the Sigma 85 ART to finally come out and I'll definitely be buying it. I also have the sigma dock that I got for like $50. I'm confident if there are any issues with focus that Sigma will release a patch to the firmware like they have done in the past in other situations.


Also comparing it to Canon's 85 1.2, personally even though I focus on portraiture, I don't think 1.2 -> 1.4 makes much difference. The average person doesn't even notice a huge difference between 2.0 -> 1.4 honestly...The 85 1.2's ability to render things beautifully is more than the aperture and has to do with other optical characteristics.

 

[ahsanford]

And I should also mention, I have 35 and 50 art and both nail focus EVERY SINGLE TIME. Just try the art before purchase, that's it. Hope that's not too hard lol

I did, thank you very much. And it laid an egg on my 5D3.

Even after tuning with the USB dock, my 35 Art copy had an abysmal hit rate at f/1.4. It was not front or back-focused -- it inconsistently missed. I had to stop it down to f/2 or so before it performed as consistently my other Canon lenses.

And the problem was not behind the viewfinder. Though I was shooting handheld, I never focused and then subsequently recomposed. Further, I was shooting static subjects and had auto-ISO set for a min 1/60s shutter -- so it wasn't hand shake or subject movement.

The inevitable refrain "you just got a bad copy" very well may apply here, but the rate with which those bad copies are falling into the hands of reviewers seems troubling. None of my first party Canon has ever demonstrated this phenomenon.

Again -- I'm not knocking Sigma, I'm just saying they still have room to improve.

- A

 

[Refurb7]

For Canon EF users who want an 85mm lens with AF, we now have a lovely 4 price point market:

Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM @ $349

Tamron 85mm f/1.8 VC @ $749

Sigma 85mm f/1.4 @ $869 --> Sigma 85mm f/1.4 Art @ $999 (guessing)

Canon 85mm f/1.2L II @ $1899

Which basically pits the Tamron's IS and weather-sealing vs. the Sigma's IQ. Though this is (generally) a FL for portraiture, we tend to drool over sharpness and Sigma's recent track record on that front will likely have most folks more excited about the Sigma than the Tamron.

- A

They are all quite good. It seems that it's hard to build a bad 85mm lens.

A Sigma 85mm Art is really exciting. However, the Tamron's IQ is excellent too, so it's not a question of IS and weather sealing vs. Sigma's IQ.

Rather, it's a question of individual priorities and individual price points. For my current photography, I value the Tamron's VC over the Sigma's additional 2/3 stop. Otherwise I would have bought the current pre-Art Sigma 85/1.4 because it too is excellent.

When mounted on an aps-c camera, the Tamron gives me an image-stabilized 135mm field of view with a 1.8 aperture, which is unique outside of some mirrorless options.

 

[Maiaibing]

Can you read signatures?

Years since I looked. I was reacting to your post which seemed to deny it.

You totally understood it wrong. It was all about CAs.

Beats me?? But OK.

But same question to you... can you see the difference between a shot taken with the already existing Tamron and a 85mm f1.4 Art? I don't think so.

Maybe not - time will tell since we do not have the ART yet. However, some of the Tammy reviews are less than glowing, so I dropped getting it myself.

This has to be prooven.

Yes. And thus I make no claims. I only point to some issues I think may matter to a lot of potential buyers. We will see if the ART is a great lens or not.

Don't be angry about the 85L if you can't afford it.

LOL! Attempt at ad hominem attack on the poor! A forum low point I'd say.

Got rid of mine a while back now. Too much overlap with the 135L after I stopped using the 85L for nighttime street shots (one reason I want fast focus speed).

And... don't get angry just because your lenses are not be the best at everything but a mechanical/optical compromise - like all others. Just let it go and enjoy!

 

[vscd]

LOL! Attempt at ad hominem attack on the poor! A forum low point I'd say.

No attack, just a reaction to your suggestive post. You claimed a lot of thing I didn't even mentioned. But hey, you know what you're doing. Nice that you got rid of your 85L because you wanted faster focus speed , but I guess you got the meaning of the lens wrong... that's not the fault of the optics.

By the way, fun fact, my 35mm f1.4 is the Samyang which is way better in the corners than the Sigma Art. For a third of the price (when it came out).

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

The key concern in this thread is (appropriately) autofocus consistency performance. That's a big deal with a lens like this.

I'm not going to chime in either pro/con Sigma as I want to go into the review of this lens (when it arrives) with as much objectivity as possible.

I just want to share this anecdote: I obviously get a lot of feedback from photographers around the world via my reviews. I get very few complaints from Nikon shooters regarding autofocus accuracy issues on Sigma lenses, but a lot of complaints from Canon shooters. While I get fewer autofocus complaints from Tamron shooters in general, I would say that more of those are from Nikon shooters compared to Canon shooters. As just a general observation I would say that Sigma has got Nikon's focus algorithms down better than Canons, and the opposite may be true from Tamron.

 

[wallstreetoneil]

I am a 5DSR / 1DX II wedding photog - pretty much a 24-70 / 70-200 shooter. That said, when I moved to 5DSRs last year (had 2 of them), any non IS lens became an issue - so much so that 2 weeks ago, when I got my 1Dx_II and traded in 1 of the 5DSRs, I finally made the jump after 4 days of testing - traded in my 85L II for the Tamron 45 & 85. Last Saturday, did my first wedding with my new combo - 1DX II with 24-70, then switch to 35L II and the 5DSR with the Tamron 85 1.8 VC - once you dial in the Tamron for MFA, it is wonderful - I shot it at F2 of F2.8. I have been a person that has wanted IS on an 85 for over two years - I don't care how sharp the new Sigma or the new new Canon will be - no IS - I'm not interested. For portraits, when you have that time to slow down and nail it, I want sharp, I want to use the lowest ISO possible and I want as many megapixels on target as possible. I did extensive, extensive testing with the 85L II and the 5DSR - if I wanted a 90% tack sharp hit rate on the 5DSR - I needed 1/640 as a SS - I shot an entire wedding with the Tamron between 1/60 and 1/160 and my hit rate was 90% tack sharp portraits - I lose F1.2 to F1.6 but I can live with that.

 

[infared]

This should be an exciting lens! I do own 20mm, 35mm and 50mm Art Series lenses and love, love, love them ( after tuning focus on The Dock. ...but I have to say that in spite of the slow focus, CA and its "granade-like" profile...I really think that my Canon 85mm f/1.2 II can, at times, deliver magical photos. The lens, although cantankerous, is truly a wonder and I cannot justify owning two 85mm lenses..and it will take something seriously impressive to rip my grenade out of my clenched fist!

 

[infared]

The key concern in this thread is (appropriately) autofocus consistency performance. That's a big deal with a lens like this.

I'm not going to chime in either pro/con Sigma as I want to go into the review of this lens (when it arrives) with as much objectivity as possible.

I just want to share this anecdote: I obviously get a lot of feedback from photographers around the world via my reviews. I get very few complaints from Nikon shooters regarding autofocus accuracy issues on Sigma lenses, but a lot of complaints from Canon shooters. While I get fewer autofocus complaints from Tamron shooters in general, I would say that more of those are from Nikon shooters compared to Canon shooters. As just a general observation I would say that Sigma has got Nikon's focus algorithms down better than Canons, and the opposite may be true from Tamron.

Interesting info from your experiences regarding Sigmas on Canons versus Nikons....We will look forward to this new art lens and of course your meticulous review (and some GREAT product photos!).

 

[9VIII]

So what if the lens focuses perfectly each time, but it just happens to be back focusing. Or front focusing each time consistently. This is what micro adjustments fix. Micro adjustments are not to fix bad focusing lenses, but to fine tune them to your particular camera. If you want to avoid this, I suggest you never use a fast aperture. Just saying.. :-/

Yes, but Sigma has a history of inconsistently focusing lenses that you can't solve with AFMA / their USB dock.

I always use the TDP example to show this with the 50 Art:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Sigma-50mm-f-1.4-DG-HSM-Art-Lens.aspx
(pan halfway down until you see the butterfly -- read and mouseover the digits)

And CR's reviewer Dustin Abbott presented a basic head to head hit rate effort while shooting both the 35L II and the 35 Art wide open, and the results were telling:
http://dustinabbott.net/2016/01/sigma-35mm-f1-4-dg-hsm-art-review/
(1/3 of the way down with the school pictures: 92% for the 35L II and 64% for the Sigma)

And it wasn't like the Servo AF incorrectly selected the AF points. Again, from Dustin's review:

"Reviewing the data in Lightroom via a plugin called “Show Focus Points” tells me that I was using AF Servo focus and that focus was locked with the center point square in the middle boy’s face…and yet the lens is actually focused on the far wall. By contrast the Canon 35L II shots in the same situation were all accurately focused."

I don't say this to smear/troll/mock/doubt Sigma -- I say this to spur them on to fix their designs and fulfill the promise of their fine optics.

- A

Instead, please go to Canon and tell them not to make it harder for 3rd parties like Sigma to manufacture lenses with spot on AF. Sony is already letting Sigma use their af technology. I hope Canon gets out of their crappy monopoly attitude and do the same.

That actually has me seriously considering getting a Sony product.
If the A5300 turns out nice I might get one just to start building a Sigma SA mount lens library while waiting for Sigma to come out with their new Foveon bodies, and I know that any E mount Sigma lenses will function properly too.

 

[mclaren777]

Even after tuning with the USB dock, my 35 Art copy had an abysmal hit rate at f/1.4. It was not front or back-focused -- it inconsistently missed. I had to stop it down to f/2 or so before it performed as consistently my other Canon lenses.

The inevitable refrain "you just got a bad copy" very well may apply here, but the rate with which those bad copies are falling into the hands of reviewers seems troubling. None of my first party Canon has ever demonstrated this phenomenon.

Having used/owned three 35A lenses, I'm very familiar with this experience. Sigma doesn't have nearly the same hit percentage as my Canon lenses, even with extensive USB tuning.

 

[FECHariot]

By the way, the difference between f1.2 and f1.4 is more than f1.4 to 1.8...

I didn't know 1/3 > 2/3.

 

[FECHariot]

I was just about to bite on the Tamron 85 VC to upgrade my EF 85/1.8. I think I'll keep using the Canon and wait for this to pan out more.

Keep in mind, the Sigma Art 85mm won't have OS. And the new Tamron does have it (VC). May not be a big deal for your shooting needs with this focal length. The Tamron is most certainly cheaper than what the Sigma will be introduced at. And has some weather sealing...

Choices, choices...decisions, decisions. It's a great time to be a photographer is it not?

The Tamron's weather sealing and VC are nice but Tamron also has my impatience on their side at this point.

 

[YuengLinger]

I'm fortunate to have an ef 85mm 1.2L II, and its AF is consistently accurate, even at f/1.2 for a guy with less than the world's steadiest hands.

I love my Sigma 35mm 1.4 Art and 15mm 2.8mm Fisheye.

Tried two Sigma 50mm 1.4 Arts. The word "sucks" is rude, vulgar, inflammatory, juvenile...But it's the best word I can think of for the AF of the 50mm with a 5DIII.

So, Sigma would be a last resort at this point.

AFAIK, they NEVER updated their firmware on the 50mm Art, at least not to fix the AF problems. They DID make an AF fix for the 35mm Art, and I own one of the updated copies.

Canon, where is your new 50mm 1.2L???

Ok, back to the topic...

 

[vscd]

By the way, the difference between f1.2 and f1.4 is more than f1.4 to 1.8...

I didn't know 1/3 > 2/3.

Sorry, came out wrong. I didn't ment the light but the effort to build. At least with a usable open aperture. The 85L should be the only 85mm f1.2 with autofocus.

 

[Eldar]

I wonder how many fantastic reviews I'd have to read, to be tempted ... Inconsistent AF will most likely be the case with this one as well ...