so the EOS-Bull and T5i are announced this week... no 70D as it seems

[sagittariansrock]

If Canon doesn't release a 70D or 7D2 that are really outstanding with close (but not as good) ISO performance as the 6D, 5D3 & 1DX and updated sensors i'll just have to invest into a 17-40L and 6D or move to the dark side.

You're really expecting the 70D, or even 7D2 for that matter, to have close to the same ISO performance as the latest model FF cameras?

He may be closer to the mark than you think...
Perhaps not the 70D...but I fully expect future 7D2 to rival high ISO of not just 5D3, may be even the 1DX... it will jive well with the intended use of a cropped high speed camera. The price will probably reflect that.

So you think that Canon just released 3 new FF cameras using older sensor technology, saving the latest and greatest for a crop sensor to release a year later? Presuming it has the latest in AF to match its predecessor, don't you think that would steer a lot of the potential market away from the more expensive FF lines?

I do.
Two reasons:
1. Sensor tech is one of the fastest ones to evolve at the moment. If you invent something new, and wait until you can use it in your flagship models, competitors will bring out something better in the meantime and carve a slice out of your market share. So, whether or not they bring out newer FF upgrades sooner with the newer sensors, they will certainly bring it to the market as soon as they can. Since APS-Cs are due this year, I am sure they will have the new tech.
2. High ISO sensitivity is not a problem area for the current Canon FF sensors. True, it will be nice to have a better sensor, but that is not crippling 1Dx or 5DIII in any way (frankly, nothing really is). On the other hand, they are aware that their APS-Cs are lacking in (only) one department, high ISO performance. So doesn't it make sense for them to protect that Achilles heel and consolidate the APS-C market share?

 

[Skirball]

If Canon doesn't release a 70D or 7D2 that are really outstanding with close (but not as good) ISO performance as the 6D, 5D3 & 1DX and updated sensors i'll just have to invest into a 17-40L and 6D or move to the dark side.

You're really expecting the 70D, or even 7D2 for that matter, to have close to the same ISO performance as the latest model FF cameras?

He may be closer to the mark than you think...
Perhaps not the 70D...but I fully expect future 7D2 to rival high ISO of not just 5D3, may be even the 1DX... it will jive well with the intended use of a cropped high speed camera. The price will probably reflect that.

So you think that Canon just released 3 new FF cameras using older sensor technology, saving the latest and greatest for a crop sensor to release a year later? Presuming it has the latest in AF to match its predecessor, don't you think that would steer a lot of the potential market away from the more expensive FF lines?

I do.
Two reasons:
1. Sensor tech is one of the fastest ones to evolve at the moment. If you invent something new, and wait until you can use it in your flagship models, competitors will bring out something better in the meantime and carve a slice out of your market share. So, whether or not they bring out newer FF upgrades sooner with the newer sensors, they will certainly bring it to the market as soon as they can. Since APS-Cs are due this year, I am sure they will have the new tech.
2. High ISO sensitivity is not a problem area for the current Canon FF sensors. True, it will be nice to have a better sensor, but that is not crippling 1Dx or 5DIII in any way (frankly, nothing really is). On the other hand, they are aware that their APS-Cs are lacking in (only) one department, high ISO performance. So doesn't it make sense for them to protect that Achilles heel and consolidate the APS-C market share?

People will always take better high ISO performance, always. Yes, the latest offerings are good, but that doesn't mean it can't be better. You're telling me that people wouldn't pounce on a camera with useable ISO at 51.2k? Of course they would. If you can create a crop sensor with markedly improved high ISO performance, then you can create a FF sensor with even better. Always.

But I agree, it could happen. As Don said above, they have to start somewhere. I admit my ignorance, I haven't been following the forefront of digital technology over the past 20 years, so I can't base my opinions off historical data. When was the last time that Canon released a crop sensor camera that matched the performance of their latest release of FF sensors?

 

[sagittariansrock]

People will always take better high ISO performance, always. Yes, the latest offerings are good, but that doesn't mean it can't be better. You're telling me that people wouldn't pounce on a camera with useable ISO at 51.2k? Of course they would.

Agreed. Thus, I am sure Canon would pre-pone the release of updates to the 5DIII and 1Dx. But it is not as critically urgent as is an improvement of the APS-C sensor, which is already handicapped by the amount of light that is incident upon it.

If you can create a crop sensor with markedly improved high ISO performance, then you can create a FF sensor with even better. Always.

Of course. Laws of physics.

When was the last time that Canon released a crop sensor camera that matched the performance of their latest release of FF sensors?

And even this time, I doubt if the beefed-up APS-C will match the FF sensors of 2012. But I am sure they will be markedly better than the current crop (pun intended). Having said that, they never really came out with revolutionary sensor technology in APS-C sensors- they merely packed in more megapixels.

 

[9VIII]

If the T5i and 100B are all they have up their sleeves that would be pretty disappointing.

I'm not giving up hope though, it's not over until the announcements are made.


Given the recent trends and stated aims, it seems that Canon's current strategy is not to make super duper sensors, what they're doing is making larger sensors more economical. It's seems like a good strategy if your new tech is developing a little slow. APS-C is moving into high end compact territory, and with the 6D they have an economical full frame.
My next thought, continuing along those lines, is that since the 1DX now effectively does everything the 1D4 did, only in full frame, and non-sports shooters can get the 5D3 for a more upscale full frame, what do you do with the APS-H line? I think it would make sense from Canon's point of view to put that in the 7D2. You get something worse than the 1Dx but decisively better than what people already have, and it still just uses existing technology. It also makes sense in the naming scheme. 7D is already in the premium line, and APS-H would be suiting.
That does leave the 70D (the new upscale APS-C) in a bit of a sticky situation (why get one of those over a 7D?), but it's effectively the same situation as the 5D2 and 6D, so I don't think it's a move Canon would be opposed to making.

 

[Canon-F1]

well say goodbye to your dreams about a new improved sensor.

and the 70D will have the same sensor you can be sure.

so canon has improved the area of the hybrid focus but not it´s speed.

just WOW!!


and the 750D released in december will have .. guess what... MORE CREATIVE FILTERS!!!

 

[cccp80]

What I don't understand is why Canon can't release a 36 MP FF sensor???
FF matrix is more than twice the area of the APS-C sensor so even by using the same technology they introduced in 7D over 3 years ago, Canon can start putting out 36 MP full frames.
It seems like now even more than ever Canon needs to step up and show Nikon that we can do it too!