Sony Executive: Expects Canon and Nikon full frame mirrorless by this year

[Don Haines]

I REALLY wanted a 6d2 - the full slippy screen is so desirable to me at this point that I will take some compromises to get it- but Canons omissions are unusually brutal to keep the products segmented. It's really making a fool of the consumer, but obviously feature wise, the consumer is canon's second worry.

The fully articulated screen is worth gold in my opinion. I've gotten seriously spoiled by them already, and there is no way I could use a camera without one at this point. As for "feature omission," I don't miss anything with the 6DII, and I certainly don't care about video at all. It is a solid camera that (to quote another wildly successful company) "Just Works." Far from "you don't need more than this," it is exactly what I hoped it would be: easy to use, with great results straight from the camera.

I’m surprised at how good the 6D2 video is.... yes, it is not 4K, but it works very very well. It’s now hard for me to go back to shooting video on one of the other cameras without that touchscreen interface.....

 

[AvTvM]

You don’t like the 6DII, don’t buy one. I can assure you that Canon doesn’t care about what you do.

quite to the opposite. Canon does care when their products are *rightfully* criticized publicly ... like the sub-par 6D II (both in terms of 2018 standards as well as in terms of price asked for it!) ... and don't sell very well ...

and they care even more when people not only criticize but refuse to buy Canon products ... as I did for the past 2+ years ... no purchase since 5D III and 24-70 II ...

 

[Isaacheus]

Canon intentionally made a hobbled body that makes the 5d4 truly look like the next level.

So, because people want a 5DIV for a 6DII price, or a 1D X II for a 4000D price, Canon is obliged to give it to them?

You don’t like the 6DII, don’t buy one. I can assure you that Canon doesn’t care about what you do.

I kinda saw it more as a hoping for something with better performance at base iso than the sl2 at $500 - the appeal of the original 6d to me was the comparable iq of that generations 5d model for cheaper, just without a number of the extra features like dual slots, pro af etc

 

[unfocused]

You don’t like the 6DII, don’t buy one. I can assure you that Canon doesn’t care about what you do.

quite to the opposite. Canon does care when their products are *rightfully* criticized publicly ... like the sub-par 6D II (both in terms of 2018 standards as well as in terms of price asked for it!) ... and don't sell very well ...

and they care even more when people not only criticize but refuse to buy Canon products ... as I did for the past 2+ years ... no purchase since 5D III and 24-70 II ...

You are confused. Canon (and every other company) cares about their aggregate customer base. So, yeah, Canon would care if a substantial percentage of their customers followed your lead. However, unfortunately for you, that is not the case. You are an outlier and companies really can't afford to worry about outliers.

That one disgruntled customer hasn't purchased a Canon product for more than two years is dwarfed by the fact that 14 Canons currently sit on Amazon's list of their 20 top selling DSLRs. My purchases alone have more than offset your non-purchases.

You also seem to ignore or refuse to understand the incremental costs that businesses must weigh when pursuing customers. There comes a point when a customer becomes too expensive to keep. Based on the very specific personalized demands that you have articulated in the past, I doubt that a cost-benefit analysis from Canon would work in your favor.

 

[woodman411]

And now the sony A73 - simply embarrasses the 6d2. The body is simply the ultimate example of canons long time methodology: "You can do better (how about the next step up?)". Pathetic.

So yes, it will take pictures just fine- but value for money? LOL oh hell's no.

To be fair to Canon, within 6 months of USA launch, during the Black Friday period, the 6d2's price went down to $1300 from authorized USA dealers. It's now $1379 gray market. At $1999, I can understand the value question, but at $1300's, it still feels like one of the best full-frame values to me despite its limitations. And anytime Sony is compared to for value, one cannot ignore the other half of the camera: lenses. Factor in the value of the lens eco-system with the body, and the 6d2 looks even better.

 

[neuroanatomist]

You don’t like the 6DII, don’t buy one. I can assure you that Canon doesn’t care about what you do.

quite to the opposite. Canon does care when their products are *rightfully* criticized publicly ... like the sub-par 6D II (both in terms of 2018 standards as well as in terms of price asked for it!) ... and don't sell very well ...

and they care even more when people not only criticize but refuse to buy Canon products ... as I did for the past 2+ years ... no purchase since 5D III and 24-70 II ...

You are confused.

That, or suffering from pathological delusions of grandeur.

 

[Diltiazem]

I don’t understand what is stopping Canon from putting out an entry level FF mirrorless camera now and getting some feedback to guide later pro-Sumer offerings.

DIGIC, battery life, DPAF on a full frame sensor all had to be done first.

Based on the performance of the M50 I would say that the Digic processors are not quite there yet.

I doubt a full frame mirrorless would be powered by an LP-E12 .. there's alot that we don't know about how quick DIGIC 8 is.

and outside of 4K DPAF what performance problems is there with the M50?

Not really a major performance issue, but the crop factor is also a bit of a concern: not that it bothers me here at this level (the lack of dpaf is the real drawback) but on a full frame model, I'd definitely hope for no crop.

I'll be very interested to see what Canon include in a mirrorless full frame, I'm hoping they'll be able to match the features of the latest Sony's, focus peaking, zebras, silent shooting, Ibis, 120 fps video etc, along with the typical Canon pluses.

4K crop is a huge issue. That and DPAF are what are keeping me from buying it.

Not available yet. That is what keeping me from buying it.

 

[Talys]

\4K crop is a huge issue. That and DPAF are what are keeping me from buying it.

Not available yet. That is what keeping me from buying it.

@transpo1 - I get the DPAF part, and I think that will be resolved in the next (more expensive) body. Why is 4k crop such a huge issue? How wide do you want to go?

When you look at pro 4k rigs (like, $20,000 ones), they are essentially crop cameras, with the 8-ish megapixels that you need to record 4k. They never record 24 megapixels and reduce to 8.

 

[dak723]

\4K crop is a huge issue. That and DPAF are what are keeping me from buying it.

Not available yet. That is what keeping me from buying it.

@transpo1 - I get the DPAF part, and I think that will be resolved in the next (more expensive) body. Why is 4k crop such a huge issue? How wide do you want to go?

When you look at pro 4k rigs (like, $20,000 ones), they are essentially crop cameras, with the 8-ish megapixels that you need to record 4k. They never record 24 megapixels and reduce to 8.

The crop factor is a huge issue because that is what the trolls say, so unimaginative folks who don't know anything just repeat it endlessly. Since the vast majority of ILCs that have had video have had crop, it doesn't seem like a big deal. I would think the rolling shutter issue would be reduced with crop, but that is just a guess. Reviewers who are basically stupid keep figuring the crop to make it sound much worse than it is. One reviewer did all their calculations using the 22mm lens. Since the kit lenses are wider and, as mentioned, there is an excellent 11-22mm zoom, the crop should be no problem for the target consumer. As for no DPAF on 4K, it could very well be a processing speed issue. On higher priced rigs, we may see two processors to make it possible.