I've waited a long time for Nikon to recapture the lead on Nikon and their 36 mp camera. And now I read that Nikon will introduce an upgrade to the 800e in June. Why am I not jumping ship? I do have a lot of canon glass and have been a local customer. I own the mk III and 6d and I love the images .BUTT, COME ON ALREADY cCanon. Get your stuff together!
Still waiting for high MP canon while Nikon is coming out with new 800
- Thread starter Jglaser757
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The thing I wonder about your post and others like it is - how many people "need" 36+ MP? Sure, it's always nice to have more than you need, but unless you have the very best lenses - Canon Mk II big whites, Zeiss Otus 55 & Zeiss 135 f/2, etc., there will be little increase in actual resolution. It would help a lot with cropping and would equalize the FF vs. crop war for wildlife...but again, only with the very best lenses and technique. I've printed many large prints at 40x60 or larger at 300dpi (that's around a 3x enlargement for 5DII files) and found little to complain about. Most people share photos at 1600x1200 or less online and rarely, if ever, print anything over 8x12"...but these are the people who often scream the loudest over their inadequate megapixel bodies!Jglaser757 said:
While we wait for more MP, I'll keep shooting what I've got and won't lose any sleep over my 18 and 22 MP bodies 8)
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mackguyver said:
While most people (e.g., me) don't need a high MP camera, I am sure there's a market for it. There are a lot of people in landscape, product or architecture who have continued with or switched to Nikon because of the D800. While it's not as popular or as versatile as the 5DIII and therefore doesn't sell as much, it still has a unique niche in the dSLR industry.
I believe the lack of a high MP camera in Canon's lineup reflects still-developing technology rather than lack of interest in the market.
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sagittariansrock said:
Or they decided to do the hard thing (refreshing a large portion of their lens lineup) before doing the relatively easy thing (increasing pixel density in a single body). As has been noted numerous times, both the optics and the electronics net the effective system resolution, hence the 5D3 + lenses resolving better on average than the D800 + lenses.
Either way, people would be clamoring. I kinda suspect that if they had instead just crapped out a full frame camera with 7D-sized pixels and people only saw marginal IQ gains (albeit with large, unwieldy files) due to the unavailability of sufficiently good glass, the clamoring would be louder. But you never know.
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It def would help when cropping 100% or more.
I would love a 1dx that shot 10 fps with a 36+ mp sensor for field sports...it would turn my 300mm into a 400/500mm from a cropping perspective.(just a ball park estimate when I say 400/500mm because i have no clue what the actual math/ratio is to figure that out??)
Now that i write it, i'd be curious to know if someone could enlighten me on this.
I would love a 1dx that shot 10 fps with a 36+ mp sensor for field sports...it would turn my 300mm into a 400/500mm from a cropping perspective.(just a ball park estimate when I say 400/500mm because i have no clue what the actual math/ratio is to figure that out??)
Now that i write it, i'd be curious to know if someone could enlighten me on this.
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Jglaser757 said:
Why does Nikon need to upgrade the D800e if Canon has nothing to compete with it?
Maybe it’s not the big seller the “I want more megapixel crowd” think it is.
The funny thing is that a lot of Nikon users are asking for a true successor to the D700 (less megapixels, more fps, smaller files).
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It's an interesting situation, why have Canon not to date followed through with a higher MP Body ?? it's a little like "what's the meaning of life".
The decision to amalgamate the 1D/1Ds lines in the 1Dx was in my opinion a bad call on the future Market by Canon (albeit I think the 1Dx is a wonderful Camera Body), I just don't think their Marketing People clearly saw the Market need for a higher MP Camera (or they did, and simply weren't able to match technologies with Nikon/Sony), they got that wrong, and now they need some catch up time in designing a Sensor that approaches what the Market wants, and is comparable, better, than the Nikon 36MP sensor, and more recently the Sony 36MP sensor, and now, the Sony 50MP sensor that is finding it's way into the Haselblad, Phase One etc, and in particular the about to be released Pentax 645z.
The Pentax 645z is of huge interest to me, this is a 51MP CMOS Sensor, 3fps, high ISO Range, reasonable Lens availability, weather sealed Body, and not an inordinate amount of Money at less than 10k, that's a pretty good deal when compared to the Phase One IQ250 & Haselblad offerings of a similar type at 35k to 45k.
The Pentax will be limited as a Wildlife Camera @ 3fps, but the D800 which I have owned, and the Sony a7r which I do own, both operate at a Maximum 4fps, so not a huge difference there, even the 5DMK III is a limiting 6fps.
But the Pentax for Landscape, Portrait & Still Life should be a very interesting Camera at this price.
If, and it seems to be a huge if, Canon develop & drop a higher MP Body into the Market, it needs to be better all round than the Sony a7r & D800E, and hopefully it will be, there's no doubt in my mind that Canon have lost Market share due to these two Cameras from Sony & Nikon, and in loosing Market share to these two Bodies they loos Lens Market etc etc.
I believe Canon simply miss read the Market trend, and have paid a price, now they need to play catch up, and they need to do it with spades, that is, put into the Market a Body that pulls that Market share back from Nikon & Sony, from what I've seen over the Past few Years, I'm not convinced canon can or will be able to do that, I personally stay with Canon because of the Big Whites, there's very little difference in abilities between the D4s & the 1Dx, the D800/5DMK III, and Canon no longer have anything comparable to the Nikon D3x other than the 1DsMK III which isn't in the same league.
Of course this is all Navel contemplation, and ultimately useless, but it's fun at 0600 on my 3rd Espresso.
The decision to amalgamate the 1D/1Ds lines in the 1Dx was in my opinion a bad call on the future Market by Canon (albeit I think the 1Dx is a wonderful Camera Body), I just don't think their Marketing People clearly saw the Market need for a higher MP Camera (or they did, and simply weren't able to match technologies with Nikon/Sony), they got that wrong, and now they need some catch up time in designing a Sensor that approaches what the Market wants, and is comparable, better, than the Nikon 36MP sensor, and more recently the Sony 36MP sensor, and now, the Sony 50MP sensor that is finding it's way into the Haselblad, Phase One etc, and in particular the about to be released Pentax 645z.
The Pentax 645z is of huge interest to me, this is a 51MP CMOS Sensor, 3fps, high ISO Range, reasonable Lens availability, weather sealed Body, and not an inordinate amount of Money at less than 10k, that's a pretty good deal when compared to the Phase One IQ250 & Haselblad offerings of a similar type at 35k to 45k.
The Pentax will be limited as a Wildlife Camera @ 3fps, but the D800 which I have owned, and the Sony a7r which I do own, both operate at a Maximum 4fps, so not a huge difference there, even the 5DMK III is a limiting 6fps.
But the Pentax for Landscape, Portrait & Still Life should be a very interesting Camera at this price.
If, and it seems to be a huge if, Canon develop & drop a higher MP Body into the Market, it needs to be better all round than the Sony a7r & D800E, and hopefully it will be, there's no doubt in my mind that Canon have lost Market share due to these two Cameras from Sony & Nikon, and in loosing Market share to these two Bodies they loos Lens Market etc etc.
I believe Canon simply miss read the Market trend, and have paid a price, now they need to play catch up, and they need to do it with spades, that is, put into the Market a Body that pulls that Market share back from Nikon & Sony, from what I've seen over the Past few Years, I'm not convinced canon can or will be able to do that, I personally stay with Canon because of the Big Whites, there's very little difference in abilities between the D4s & the 1Dx, the D800/5DMK III, and Canon no longer have anything comparable to the Nikon D3x other than the 1DsMK III which isn't in the same league.
Of course this is all Navel contemplation, and ultimately useless, but it's fun at 0600 on my 3rd Espresso.
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100 said:
Yes, I bought a D800, and files that open to 125 - 150 MB are no fun to edit. Its hard to imagine what editing a 200 - 250 MB file would be like.
The files open so large due to the huge amount of noise in any image over about ISO 800. NEF is a compressed file, but they are uncompressed in order to edit them. I tried editing 1500 shots that I took at high ISO over a couple of nights. I had to use a ton of NR on them, and that took minutes per image to run.
I sold the D800 and bought a 5D MK III, it is much better for high ISO photography. The D800 is great at ISO 200, assuming that you buy lenses that can resolve the high MP, and that you use a tripod or very fast shutter speed. Its difficult to actually get the high resolution possible, many users do not and giv up.
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Northstar said:
Cropping 100% is the same as deleting the image ;-)
If you want your 300 to have a 400/500 FOV, buy a 7D a 70D or wait for the 7DII. The 1.6 crop gets you a 480mm FOV.
A 1.6 crop means the surface area of the FF sensor is 2.56 (1.6*1.6) times as big. If you want to crop FF to APS-C your crop is 39% of the surface area of FF (100/2.56).
If you want to know how much to crop for a specific lens to get the same FOV of another lens just divide to get the crop factor.
300 to 400 => 400/300 = 1.333 cropfactor
300 to 500 => 500/300 = 1.666 cropfactor
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Jglaser757 said:
The thing I wonder about your post and others like it is why do you care? I want a high MP body, I can pay for it, and I'm tired of people telling me I don't (why do people overquote?) "need" it. I want it, got it?
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D
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mackguyver said:
+1
I have 18Mp on FF don't want any more! One of the best LARGE prints I have seen was at a Photographers shop in Llangollen. It was a shot of Bantry Bay in Ireland and it covered a whole door - it was shot with a 6mp DSLR. I print to A3+ - I think 18mp will do!
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FunPhotons said:
Because we are trying to help you get better images. If you feel that 30+ mp is an advantage on a 35mm (or smaller) sensor then go for it.
I have tried out MANY DSLR cameras of differing sensor sizes, manufacturers and build qualities. I have always found that the more modest pixel count cameras, relative to the current technology and sensor size, have produced better images.
If you think that MP is the answer, then I wish you luck, I have not found this to be the case.
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
Nikon seems to be following a strategy of minor refreshes. One suspects it is either an effort to generate enthusiasm and interest in the hopes of boosting sales without having to make much of an investment or maybe they need to fix problems with their current bodies. At any rate, I'm glad Canon seems to limit its small upgrades to Powershots and low-end Rebels.
As for the demand for high megapixel bodies, it seems telling that Sony (a company that so many people on this forum seem obsessed with) just released a new high end body with a whopping 12 mp sensor.
Do you think maybe Canon knows the market better than their competitors?
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johnf3f said:
Agreed. I have found that larger pixels are more important than more pixels. I had the 6 MP original rebel and over the years rented higher MP cameras as they came out. Last year rented the 60D and did a few prints to compare. Granted, I only did a few prints and this was far from a rigid scientific experiment. What I found was that my 6 MP camera could produce acceptable prints at 180-200 dots per inch allowing me to print around 15 to 16 plus inch prints. The 18 MP 60D needed approx. 280 DPI for similarly acceptable prints - allowing me to print 18 plus inch prints. Hardly the difference one might expect from such a huge jump in pixels. My guess that the difference between a 22 MP and 36 MP camera with the same size sensor would result in virtually no difference in print quality for the same size prints. Just a guess, of course. Would be interested if anyone has done such a comparison.
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Nobody needs 36 mp! At most, we post at 1000x700. So, around 0.5 to 1 mp should be enough for most. Canon gives you plenty with up to 21 mp, should you choose those ridiculous sizes. As Ken Rockwell says, large files clog your harddrive and slow down your machines. I would rather have a nice looking image from a Canon than crappy 36 mp "photos" from nikon. Just how many Pulitzer prizes have D800 images won? Answer: none, nada, zero!
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I can only add: uhh huh huh huh, he said butt.
Seriously:
1) Okay, we got the thread "how will canon respond to X"
2) We're missing the outraged "I'm switching to Nikon" guy
3) You buy Canon or Nikon because you know someone with that system . . . if not, then you're splitting hairs
and lastly
4) he said butt
;D
Seriously:
1) Okay, we got the thread "how will canon respond to X"
2) We're missing the outraged "I'm switching to Nikon" guy
3) You buy Canon or Nikon because you know someone with that system . . . if not, then you're splitting hairs
and lastly
4) he said butt
;D
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FunPhotons said:
Sure, there's no problem there; the problem is that there aren't enough like you to make it cost-effective. The D800 and D800E are almost exactly what the high-megapixel crowd asked for about that time. Sales are OK, but not great. Why would Canon (or Nikon) come up with a whole new model for that market segment when it's been demonstrated to be less profitable than the 5D3 market segment?
There's nothing wrong with your preferences, just understand that you're in a clear minority.
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I think you were actually trying to quoting me (the over-quoter, LOL), and what I was really getting at is that I'm actually one of those people who want a high MP body and would make good use of it, but it seems like most of the people who complain about this on the forums are the same ones who never print their work and post 800x600 photos on the web (for fear of image theft, no doubt). They're also the same people who will someday slap their 50L on their new 40MP camera, shoot hand held at f/1.2 and then complain that their images are all soft.FunPhotons said:
Okay, maybe I'm being "silly", but so many "people" bitch and moan about "stuff" they don't have when they are "barely" using 20% of what today's "cameras" can do. I hope I didn't over-quote that last sentence
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