Tamron 150-600mm AF servo issues?

[mackguyver]

I have also had AF problems with the lens in low contrast situations. Photographing a snowy owl from a distance and with the sky the same colour as the bird, it had problems getting focus. The 70-200 worked better, but still had problems. The SX-50 was a total write-off.....

The point being, what are the conditions that AF problems are occuring under? Is it the fault of the camera, the lens, or the lack of contrast in the suject matter?

i guess they are not all noobs. some have a 5D MK3 or 1DX too.
so they should be able to keep that in consideration.

i have no issues at all. but then i don´t have a 7D or 1D MK4.

Maybe they are new to using this kind of lens or this kind of shooting, however. As Don points out, there are limits. Even the "mighty" 1D X wouldn't focus for me last night when I was using the 85 f/1.2 II with the central point/one shot AF. Why? Because it was really dark and I focused on a subject with almost no contrast. Shooting birds in flight and low contrast fur & feathers at long distances with long focal lengths with such little light to work with (f/6.3) is going to challenge the very best AF systems.

 

[Lightmaster]

Maybe they are new to using this kind of lens or this kind of shooting, however.

nope. some of them have a 600mm f4 or a 300mm f2.8 + TC.

i don´t doubt that some have a problem.
question is how many?
is this an issue that affects all lenses or a problem with only a few faulty copys.

on the internet things tend to be blown out of proportions.
i am sure some are just not able to handle a long lens and that contributes to the "noise".

Even the "mighty" 1D X wouldn't focus for me last night when I was using the 85 f/1.2 II with the central point/one shot AF.

Shooting birds in flight and low contrast fur & feathers at long distances with long focal lengths with such little light to work with (f/6.3) is going to challenge the very best AF systems.

the problem with that is... the 6D has no issues but the 7D or 1D MK4 has (as reported).

i would not go so far to say the 6D has the better AI servo system.


anyway... what i really want to hear is if someone HERE has noticed this with his 7D or 1d MK4.

 

[mackguyver]

Lightmaster, thanks for the additional information and this is a very curious issue. I'll be interested to see how it pans out.

 

[PicaPica]

I have posted in the Bird Portraits thread in the last 24 hours loads of hand-held shots with the 150-600/5DIII, most of which are very sharp, even down to very slow shutter speeds, and nearly all of mine were keepers. Maybe your hands are shaking because you work out too much.

but when you believe some people you can not even take sharp photos with a 600mm and a gimbal head.

for sharp images you need at least a fluid head that cost a few thousand dollars.
at least a FSB8 as entry level head.

i know it´s not of much help for most here but when you are german, have a look at this tread:

http://www.fotocommunity.de/forum/naturfotografie/stativkopf-fuer-das-canon-ef-600-f-4-l-is-usm-i

some people think you can only make sharp photos with a sachtler FSB8.
your cheap RRS or wimberleys are just that.. cheap crap.

 

[candc]

After reading the posts here I did some experimenting with the lens on a 6d and a 70d. At 150 it works fine but at the longer focal lengths with the cameras set to ai focus and if you focus on a distant point and then quickly move to a near target or vice versa, the camera does not try to refocus unless you let go and repress the AF on button. This has never been a problem but I see its there once I looked for it. I use the lens in ai focus mode most of the time and it seems to track okay but it seems it will quit if there is a drastic change. Its not a big deal to me but something to keep in mind

 

[Don Haines]

I have posted in the Bird Portraits thread in the last 24 hours loads of hand-held shots with the 150-600/5DIII, most of which are very sharp, even down to very slow shutter speeds, and nearly all of mine were keepers. Maybe your hands are shaking because you work out too much.

but when you believe some people you can not even take sharp photos with a 600mm and a gimbal head.

for sharp images you need at least a fluid head that cost a few thousand dollars.
at least a FSB8 as entry level head.

i know it´s not of much help for most here but when you are german, have a look at this tread:

http://www.fotocommunity.de/forum/naturfotografie/stativkopf-fuer-das-canon-ef-600-f-4-l-is-usm-i

some people think you can only make sharp photos with a sachtler FSB8.
your cheap RRS or wimberleys are just that.. cheap crap.

I spotted some deer on the way home and got nice sharp pictures handheld with the end of the lens resting on the car window. (make sure you turn the car off so you get rid of vibrations). I have also gotten sharp pictures resting the lens on a handrail, leaning against a tree, against a park bench, and even free-standing. There are lots more ways to stabilize a camera than a tripod.....

 

[philmoz]

Well that explains some of the behaviour I saw at an airshow recently.

So I did some more extensive testing on my 5DIII, and the Tamron definitely does not behave well in AI Servo mode (compared to Canon 100-400 and 70-300L).

Below about 350mm zoom it works as expected; but above that it does weird things.

Note: the Canon AI Servo menu settings don't seem to change the behaviour, nor does the choice of focus point or mode (single, zone, etc).

Here's what I've found for zoom above 350mm:

• Once focus is achieved, the lens will focus on something closer without any problem. So if I focus on a distant tree (>30m), then point the lens to a close flower (<10m) it will refocus quickly.
• Once focus is achieved, the lens will not focus on an object farther away if the re-focus requires a large change in focus. For example if I'm focused at 15m I can refocus to about 18-20m and back; but not to 25m or beyond. So in my example above, if I focus on the distant tree, then refocus on the close flower, I cannot refocus back on the distant tree without releasing and pressing the shutter or AF button. I can switch focus back and forth between a tree at 30m and another at 100m without problem; but if I focus on a fence at 15m I can't then re-focus to the tree at 30m or beyond.
• Occasionally when attempting to refocus on a distant object the focus distance will jump to very close (<5m), like the camera is about to do a full focus scan; but the lens refuses to continue focussing.

Neither the 100-400 or 70-300L Canon lenses I tested behave like this.

To me this seems like a bug - the lens will refocus closer to the camera; but it won't reliably refocus father away from the camera in AI Servo.

A bit disappointing, I try sending a problem report to Tamron and see what they say.

Phil.

 

[Lightmaster]

After reading the posts here I did some experimenting with the lens on a 6d and a 70d. At 150 it works fine but at the longer focal lengths with the cameras set to ai focus and if you focus on a distant point and then quickly move to a near target or vice versa, the camera does not try to refocus unless you let go and repress the AF on button. This has never been a problem but I see its there once I looked for it. I use the lens in ai focus mode most of the time and it seems to track okay but it seems it will quit if there is a drastic change. Its not a big deal to me but something to keep in mind

you are the first who reports this with the 5D MK3, 6D and 70D.

unless it´s the typical behavior you also see with other original canon telephot lenses too.

this kind of "issues" attract people to test things and notice behavior they have not notice before and blame it on the lens.

there are no report from 5D MK3 user that the lens behaves strange.

 

[philmoz]

there are no report from 5D MK3 user that the lens behaves strange.

My post, immediately before yours, is reporting strange behaviour with this lens on the 5D Mk 3.

The same behaviour does not happen with the 100-400L or 70-300L.

It could just be my copy of the lens - I have sent emails to Tamron Japan and the local distributor.

Phil.

 

[Lightmaster]

there are no report from 5D MK3 user that the lens behaves strange.

My post, immediately before yours, is reporting strange behaviour with this lens on the 5D Mk 3.

The same behaviour does not happen with the 100-400L or 70-300L.

It could just be my copy of the lens - I have sent emails to Tamron Japan and the local distributor.

Phil.

i have read at least thousand postigs and you both are the first that says there are issues with the 5D MK3.

so far you both are the only ones who seems to have these issues with "newer" canon bodys.

but i remember reading that this behavior is common for canon lenses too.

the question is if AI servos is made to follow a object that "jumps".
i use AI servo to follow objects that move.
i don´t use it to focus from a tree 20m away to a flower at 4m without releasing the focus.

the issue people are talking about is more about BIF then such great jumps in focus distance.

 

[philmoz]

there are no report from 5D MK3 user that the lens behaves strange.

My post, immediately before yours, is reporting strange behaviour with this lens on the 5D Mk 3.

The same behaviour does not happen with the 100-400L or 70-300L.

It could just be my copy of the lens - I have sent emails to Tamron Japan and the local distributor.

Phil.

i have read at least thousand postigs and you both are the first that says there are issues with the 5D MK3.

so far you both are the only ones who seems to have these issues with "newer" canon bodys.

the question is if AI servos is made to follow a objects that "jump".

On my 5DIII, ff something moves in between the camera and the object in focus, and the camera re-focuses on the closer object, and then the object moves away, then my Tamron will not re-focus on the more distant target.

Both my 70-300L and 100-400L do not behave like this - they will both re-focus to the farther object.

This seems like a defect (at least in my lens).

Phil.

 

[Lightmaster]

there are no report from 5D MK3 user that the lens behaves strange.

My post, immediately before yours, is reporting strange behaviour with this lens on the 5D Mk 3.

The same behaviour does not happen with the 100-400L or 70-300L.

It could just be my copy of the lens - I have sent emails to Tamron Japan and the local distributor.

Phil.

i have read at least thousand postigs and you both are the first that says there are issues with the 5D MK3.

so far you both are the only ones who seems to have these issues with "newer" canon bodys.

the question is if AI servos is made to follow a objects that "jump".

On my 5DIII, ff something moves in between the camera and the object in focus, and the camera re-focuses on the closer object, and then the object moves away, then my Tamron will not re-focus on the more distant target.

ah ok now i get what you mean.

 

[AlanF]

I am looking out of the window on the 17th floor of a Shanghai hotel, with the cityscape shrouded in mist and evening coming in at 5-15 pm. There is virtually no contrast between the grey spikes on top of the buildings and the grey mist. So, nothing better to do I have tested A1 servo on the 5DIII and the Tamron.

1. Set to centre spot focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on very quickly to a very thin pole on the top of a distant building and instantly refocusses as I pan to closer and closer objects and back again. So absolutely no problem.

2. Set to the 9 centre points focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on much more slowly to that very thin pole.

3. Set to all points focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on even more slowly to that very thin pole and struggles to refocus. So, there is a problem with this setting in these extreme conditions.

But, I recall that with the 300mm f/2.8 + 2xTC @600mm, I have been sometimes been disappointed with the 9 centre points focussing. So, there could be problems under certain conditions when tracking with all points, but this is probably not unique to the Tamron.

 

[wickidwombat]

I am looking out of the window on the 17th floor of a Shanghai hotel, with the cityscape shrouded in mist and evening coming in at 5-15 pm. There is virtually no contrast between the grey spikes on top of the buildings and the grey mist. So, nothing better to do I have tested A1 servo on the 5DIII and the Tamron.

1. Set to centre spot focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on very quickly to a very thin pole on the top of a distant building and instantly refocusses as I pan to closer and closer objects and back again. So absolutely no problem.

2. Set to the 9 centre points focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on much more slowly to that very thin pole.

3. Set to all points focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on even more slowly to that very thin pole and struggles to refocus. So, there is a problem with this setting in these extreme conditions.

But, I recall that with the 300mm f/2.8 + 2xTC @600mm, I have been sometimes been disappointed with the 9 centre points focussing. So, there could be problems under certain conditions when tracking with all points, but this is probably not unique to the Tamron.

I fly back in to shanghai tomorrow, want to grab a beer?

 

[philmoz]

1. Set to centre spot focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on very quickly to a very thin pole on the top of a distant building and instantly refocusses as I pan to closer and closer objects and back again. So absolutely no problem.

Does it still work if you move quickly to a much closer object and back again?

That's where I have problems - if the change in focus distance is small it will re-focus both closer and farther away.
If the change in focus distance is large, then it will only refocus to a closer object.

Phil.

 

[Lightmaster]

1. Set to centre spot focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on very quickly to a very thin pole on the top of a distant building and instantly refocusses as I pan to closer and closer objects and back again. So absolutely no problem.

Does it still work if you move quickly to a much closer object and back again?

That's where I have problems - if the change in focus distance is small it will re-focus both closer and farther away.
If the change in focus distance is large, then it will only refocus to a closer object.

Phil.

well i am not an AI servo expert.

you say the EF 70-300 and EF 100-400 lenses don´t behave that way.
thought others reported they behave exactly the same.

so i am bit confused.

what does the lens do when you follow a car and suddenly something near jumps into focus.
as i understand your posts the tamron will not refocus on the car?

 

[AlanF]

1. Set to centre spot focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on very quickly to a very thin pole on the top of a distant building and instantly refocusses as I pan to closer and closer objects and back again. So absolutely no problem.

Does it still work if you move quickly to a much closer object and back again?

That's where I have problems - if the change in focus distance is small it will re-focus both closer and farther away.
If the change in focus distance is large, then it will only refocus to a closer object.

Phil.

Yes - I tested that as you had reported a problem. It was fine.

 

[AlanF]

I am looking out of the window on the 17th floor of a Shanghai hotel, with the cityscape shrouded in mist and evening coming in at 5-15 pm. There is virtually no contrast between the grey spikes on top of the buildings and the grey mist. So, nothing better to do I have tested A1 servo on the 5DIII and the Tamron.

1. Set to centre spot focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on very quickly to a very thin pole on the top of a distant building and instantly refocusses as I pan to closer and closer objects and back again. So absolutely no problem.

2. Set to the 9 centre points focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on much more slowly to that very thin pole.

3. Set to all points focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on even more slowly to that very thin pole and struggles to refocus. So, there is a problem with this setting in these extreme conditions.

But, I recall that with the 300mm f/2.8 + 2xTC @600mm, I have been sometimes been disappointed with the 9 centre points focussing. So, there could be problems under certain conditions when tracking with all points, but this is probably not unique to the Tamron.

I fly back in to shanghai tomorrow, want to grab a beer?

We will be in Pudong tomorrow night before leaving on Monday morning for Guilin for a week. Where will you be?

 

[philmoz]

1. Set to centre spot focus, A1 servo and 600mm, the lens locks on very quickly to a very thin pole on the top of a distant building and instantly refocusses as I pan to closer and closer objects and back again. So absolutely no problem.

Does it still work if you move quickly to a much closer object and back again?

That's where I have problems - if the change in focus distance is small it will re-focus both closer and farther away.
If the change in focus distance is large, then it will only refocus to a closer object.

Phil.

Yes - I tested that as you had reported a problem. It was fine.

Thanks for testing.

So it could be my copy of the lens, or perhaps some setting on the camera.

Will do some more testing tomorrow and see what happens.

Phil.

 

[candc]

After reading the posts here I did some experimenting with the lens on a 6d and a 70d. At 150 it works fine but at the longer focal lengths with the cameras set to ai focus and if you focus on a distant point and then quickly move to a near target or vice versa, the camera does not try to refocus unless you let go and repress the AF on button. This has never been a problem but I see its there once I looked for it. I use the lens in ai focus mode most of the time and it seems to track okay but it seems it will quit if there is a drastic change. Its not a big deal to me but something to keep in mind

you are the first who reports this with the 5D MK3, 6D and 70D.

unless it´s the typical behavior you also see with other original canon telephot lenses too.

this kind of "issues" attract people to test things and notice behavior they have not notice before and blame it on the lens.

there are no report from 5D MK3 user that the lens behaves strange.

for comparison i tried the same test using the sigma 120-300 and found that the bare lens is fine but if you add tc's then you get this same behavior so it seems an issue of max aperture and how well ai servo functions and not an issue that is specific to the tamron.