The Canon EOS ‘R5s’ may be in the hands of testers [CR2]

masterpix

EOS RP
Jun 29, 2016
215
145
I was pointing out that the blanket statement is incorrect without a caveat. Unfortunately the statement is too often repeated without that caveat so is misunderstood by many.
That is often happens when there is a chain responces and the original post is not mentioned anymore. :)
 

H. Jones

Photojournalist
Aug 1, 2014
410
484
Dumb question....when you use the crop mode, does that reduce the quality of the RAW image?
It's the same thing as using a crop sensor, the high ISO noise will be more apparent due to the crop, which will make it look like the ISO quality of a crop sensor, but it's the same thing as reading a 1.6x version of the same sensor as the R5
 

AlanF

Stay alert, control the camera, save photos
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
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I was talking about fthe fact that 90MP sensor will make it harder to capture fast moving objects (birds), not a steady tripod with good light conditions. As said in a much simpler way than I described it, by Eclipsed: Motion blur is stronger when you increase sensor resolution.
To reinforce Joules' post, if, as I pointed out, you output the image from the low density sensor to the same size as that from a high density sensor, the fast moving subject will have moved an identical amount across the same-sized photos from both and have the same motion blur.
You also missed out the key part of my sentence and quoted only the irrelevant part to this discussion: "If the conditions are right - good lighting, high shutter speed for a moving subject or good tripod for a static at low speeds, and a good wide lens, the higher resolution sensor will give better images that can be used at larger output size or greater cropping. Whether it will be of any advantage to you personally, that is another matter. "
 

AlanF

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Aug 16, 2012
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With which Software?
To be more precise, a lossless compressed RAW file will be decompressed by a RAW converter to give the same size as the output from an uncompressed RAW file. You can see this in Adobe Camera Raw working on a CRAW to give a DNG, jpeg etc.
 
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AlanF

Stay alert, control the camera, save photos
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Aug 16, 2012
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It's the same thing as using a crop sensor, the high ISO noise will be more apparent due to the crop, which will make it look like the ISO quality of a crop sensor, but it's the same thing as reading a 1.6x version of the same sensor as the R5
The noise from using the crop mode in camera will be the same as that from using the FF mode for the same scene and cropping to APS-C in post.
 
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dancan

5Ds_5DIV
Jan 8, 2015
25
27
Thanks - I get an R5 to test this week - mainly looking at using TS-E lenses (and to compare with my 5Ds)
I did make a very, very fast comparison with these two cameras with the TSE 17: IQ was not that much different despite an improvement in the shadows.
However, I am curious what you will find out, Keith!!
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
260
214
I love the flexibility of 5DSr files and this will be even cooler. Glass is going to get expensive. The list of fully capable glass for the 90D is pretty short. DLA at about f/5.1 for 34 MP, so glass will also be big.
 
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H. Jones

Photojournalist
Aug 1, 2014
410
484
The noise from using the crop mode in camera will be the same as that from using the FF mode for the same scene and cropping to APS-C in post.
Yes, that's also what I meant, but upon cropping in 1.6x the pixel level noise is more visible, giving the cropped image the appearance of more noise and looking like a crop sensor camera
 
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keithcooper

EOS RP
CR Pro
I did make a very, very fast comparison with these two cameras with the TSE 17: IQ was not that much different despite an improvement in the shadows.
However, I am curious what you will find out, Keith!!
Well, I asked for a TS-E50 to go with it, but they're also sending a 15-35, 24-70 70-200 and the adapter with the filter which is nice.
I have my TS-E17 and 24ii as well, so I'm hoping the weather is kind...
From an image quality POV I'm not expecting a huge difference - those days have long gone. However I am curious to see how it is to actually use. I've had the RP for a while to experiment with and get used to EVF etc.
I've had people ask about using tilt/shift on mirrorless - my experiments with the RP (and S1R) suggest that tilt is somewhat easier to use creatively (focus peaking helps) but until new tilt/shift lenses for RF appear, not a lot changes (manual operation and no movements info in EXIF)
 
Sep 17, 2019
1
0
It's a 24bit internal signal path, 16 bit RAW file, 17 stop d/r, shooting 12 fps mechanical shutter, buffer size x2 of R5.
 

privatebydesign

Garfield is back...
CR Pro
Jan 29, 2011
9,051
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Well, I asked for a TS-E50 to go with it, but they're also sending a 15-35, 24-70 70-200 and the adapter with the filter which is nice.
I have my TS-E17 and 24ii as well, so I'm hoping the weather is kind...
From an image quality POV I'm not expecting a huge difference - those days have long gone. However I am curious to see how it is to actually use. I've had the RP for a while to experiment with and get used to EVF etc.
I've had people ask about using tilt/shift on mirrorless - my experiments with the RP (and S1R) suggest that tilt is somewhat easier to use creatively (focus peaking helps) but until new tilt/shift lenses for RF appear, not a lot changes (manual operation and no movements info in EXIF)
I absolutely love my TS-E 50, I think it is an absolute stand out optic with a heck of a lot varied and flexible uses. It might not be as 'sexy' as a white super-telephoto or a crazy wide angle zoom but the images from it are just sublime.
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
1,606
1,455
I absolutely love my TS-E 50, I think it is an absolute stand out optic with a heck of a lot varied and flexible uses. It might not be as 'sexy' as a white super-telephoto or a crazy wide angle zoom but the images from it are just sublime.
There may be a tilt-shift in my distant future; all sorts of very special things to be done with one...but they run expensive and I can't justify it. I'd probably want to stick with EF on that one just so it can go on everything I own.

Actually I did come up with an interesting (though perhaps silly) idea--an EF --> EF-M adapter with the tilt-shift stuff in it. Someone pointed out that the image circle edges would be to close...which would be true, if you were adapting to an RF mount, but perhaps NOT with an EF-M mount. You could, in principle put any full frame EF lens onto this thing and have at least some play to tilt and shift onto the crop sensor.
 
Jul 25, 2019
8
10
I ordered mine Friday morning, and I'm expecting it to ship any day now. Not based on an official estimate, mind you, just mindless optimism.

(Full disclosure: I ordered the R6, but a few days later changed my mind. Who wants just 20 MP? :D )
I like your optimism, I need a little of that!
 
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canonnews

EOS RP
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Dec 27, 2017
753
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I was talking about fthe fact that 90MP sensor will make it harder to capture fast moving objects (birds), not a steady tripod with good light conditions. As said in a much simpler way than I described it, by Eclipsed: Motion blur is stronger when you increase sensor resolution.
not any more difficult than a 90D or a M6 Mark II. I've heard no complaints about that.
 

canonnews

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 27, 2017
753
1,203
Canada
www.canonnews.com
To reinforce Joules' post, if, as I pointed out, you output the image from the low density sensor to the same size as that from a high density sensor, the fast moving subject will have moved an identical amount across the same-sized photos from both and have the same motion blur.
You also missed out the key part of my sentence and quoted only the irrelevant part to this discussion: "If the conditions are right - good lighting, high shutter speed for a moving subject or good tripod for a static at low speeds, and a good wide lens, the higher resolution sensor will give better images that can be used at larger output size or greater cropping. Whether it will be of any advantage to you personally, that is another matter. "
Yes!
Everything is determined by your observer distance and image magnification. Shake, motion blur, diffraction,etc.
just because it's a higher resolution doesn't change if you print / display at the same level of magnification (ie: 20x30 prints) you won't see a difference, but you will see (maybe) a difference in the accuracy of color information, finer detail, and most likely less noise with the higher MP version.

Your subject speed AND your observer distance/image magnification determine shutter speed, just as the image magnification/observer distance choose your diffraction limit.

Per pixel qualities in either of these is chasing something that is simply not needed anymore.
 

canonnews

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 27, 2017
753
1,203
Canada
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Yeah, and I guess that’s my curiosity about bit depth. I’m wondering if ‘better apples’ is best, or if ‘oranges’ isn’t a route worth considering.

When I look at hasselblad X series it’s the 16 bits I envy more so than resolution.

But I’m coming around. I’d be happy to settle for loads of pixels if I had to.
16 bit is just a spec. it really depends on the amount of noise and how much data you lose to noise. I haven't seen anywhere that the cameras need 16 bit ADC's yet.
Then we have the SPEED. that would be 4 times slower than 14 bit to deliver the data.

so instead of looking at 10 fps max from the 5Ds, you're looking at around 2.5 fps.