The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]

[Deleted member 380306]

Even with a high price tag if it has good DR and IBIS for/on the stills front I'm in, not bothered about the mount as I tested the M5 with the canon ef 50mm 1.2 + adapter, size was not a problem, focus was fast and images were good although could be better IMO, so I'm in...

As for the 4k it's about time and I'm sure they can come up with a less heavier format than we've seen on the 5d4 and maybe that would negate the issues of heating etc

The really question is how long do we wait? I wouldn't be surprised if we're still 'only' talking about the next year...

 

[wildwalker]

Wow, a lot of '4K' talk here.

Wasn't this camera supposed to sit between the m100 and m5/m6? I can't get my head around where this model is being positioned.

Does the addition of 4K make it a flagship model, and price it above the M5? Will 4K acutally be 2160p60? or will it be p30, so not that useful (maybe okay for you tubers).

Will it have a viewfinder? or will it be an expensive add-on like the M6?

Personally, I was hoping for a lower cost M5 that has a viewfinder, with some features left out, like no mic input, lower burst mode etc. But I think the addition of 4K has complicated things.

 

[mb66energy]

While I am not longing for 4k (home) video I am interested:
(1) Sometimes it might be good to get THE image of a fast series of frames - 4k at 30 fps is great for that.
(2) If it improves "2k" video or gives higher framerates even at the lower HD resolution (120 fps) it will be appreciated by me for some motion analysis in physics lessons.

 

[mistaspeedy]

If the 1080p is anything like the implementation on the 1DX mark II and 5D mark IV, it will be worse than the original 1DX and 5D mark III. The only quality option is shooting 4K and downsampling it yourself.

 

[bhf3737]

Great. Hopefully, some people will shut up now. ;D

Let's hope. But not so sure. As long as there are buzz words to whine. Ok, here there are a few:
DCI, 4:2:2, IBIS, 10 bit, 60P, vector scope, db, HDMI out, shutter angle, SDI, XLR, waveform, 400mbps, zebra, cine-lens, super 35, and after those, will come 6k, buttons and many of them, and finally all should be free!

All the 4K haters on this forum should realize that if people are shouting at your company for the features they want on future products, that is a VERY good problem to have, and only shows how Canon products are highly valued and how loyal those customers are.

The intelligent ones at Canon will take that as a compliment and a gift, whether or not they give those loud 4K people what they want

The argument for loving or hating 4K is purely subjective and is not part of discussion here. We are talking about economical and technical realities vs. mythical expectations. Promoting the expectation of having 4k, 60p, full APS-C sensor read with high bit depth and bit rate from a tiny camera that is supposed to be low to mid-range, low-price, enthusiast/vlog camera is misleading and speculative at best.
The whiners either don't know the economical and technical realities or know it and chose to agitate intentionally. Usually they use comparison with the other brand cameras as an evidence. However, their comparison is limited to a few cherry picked features rather than the whole set of features, purpose, target users and price point.

 

[Talys]

Wow, a lot of '4K' talk here.

Wasn't this camera supposed to sit between the m100 and m5/m6? I can't get my head around where this model is being positioned.

Does the addition of 4K make it a flagship model, and price it above the M5? Will 4K acutally be 2160p60? or will it be p30, so not that useful (maybe okay for you tubers).

Will it have a viewfinder? or will it be an expensive add-on like the M6?

Personally, I was hoping for a lower cost M5 that has a viewfinder, with some features left out, like no mic input, lower burst mode etc. But I think the addition of 4K has complicated things.

I had exactly the same questions:

- More or less expensive than M5
- If you strip out video, better or worse than M5 for stills
- EVF + hotshoe, or just hotshoe with attachable EVF


Or, perhaps, Canon is going to screw us all up, and mess with their tortured smaller is better except when bigger is better naming convention, such that M50 is an M5-ish camera with 4k.

Or who knows, and M50 sits between M5 and M6, but with 4k. So the M5 version that has 4k would be the M40.

8)


I will make a guess: that the M50 is more expensive than M6 -- about the same price as M5; same format as M6 (external EVF on hotshoe); and have still photography features like M6.

Well, from there it seems reasonable to extrapolate : adding a good 4K footage (even 30P) without changing either processor and/or sensor type seems higly unlikely.

Maybe, the 90D with the latest digic 7 could prove me wrong. Wait and see!

It's entirely possible that it's a new processor or a variant on an existing one, like Digic7C or some such, though.

 

[transpo1]

Great. Hopefully, some people will shut up now. ;D

Let's hope. But not so sure. As long as there are buzz words to whine. Ok, here there are a few:
DCI, 4:2:2, IBIS, 10 bit, 60P, vector scope, db, HDMI out, shutter angle, SDI, XLR, waveform, 400mbps, zebra, cine-lens, super 35, and after those, will come 6k, buttons and many of them, and finally all should be free!

All the 4K haters on this forum should realize that if people are shouting at your company for the features they want on future products, that is a VERY good problem to have, and only shows how Canon products are highly valued and how loyal those customers are.

The intelligent ones at Canon will take that as a compliment and a gift, whether or not they give those loud 4K people what they want

The argument for loving or hating 4K is purely subjective and is not part of discussion here. We are talking about economical and technical realities vs. mythical expectations. Promoting the expectation of having 4k, 60p, full APS-C sensor read with high bit depth and bit rate from a tiny camera that is supposed to be low to mid-range, low-price, enthusiast/vlog camera is misleading and speculative at best.
The whiners either don't know the economical and technical realities or know it and chose to agitate intentionally. Usually they use comparison with the other brand cameras as an evidence. However, their comparison is limited to a few cherry picked features rather than the whole set of features, purpose, target users and price point.

That argument became part of the discussion because of certain people’s vehemence against those requesting that feature.

Although we should temper them for a lower-end M50 camera, I choose to keep high expectations for Canon. You don’t get to the moon without quite literally keeping your expectations high.

Canon needs to have the drive to push through these technical boundaries and they won’t do that unless people demand it.

 

[wildwalker]

Wow, a lot of '4K' talk here.

Wasn't this camera supposed to sit between the m100 and m5/m6? I can't get my head around where this model is being positioned.

Does the addition of 4K make it a flagship model, and price it above the M5? Will 4K acutally be 2160p60? or will it be p30, so not that useful (maybe okay for you tubers).

Will it have a viewfinder? or will it be an expensive add-on like the M6?

Personally, I was hoping for a lower cost M5 that has a viewfinder, with some features left out, like no mic input, lower burst mode etc. But I think the addition of 4K has complicated things.

I had exactly the same questions:

- More or less expensive than M5
- If you strip out video, better or worse than M5 for stills
- EVF + hotshoe, or just hotshoe with attachable EVF


Or, perhaps, Canon is going to screw us all up, and mess with their tortured smaller is better except when bigger is better naming convention, such that M50 is an M5-ish camera with 4k.

Or who knows, and M50 sits between M5 and M6, but with 4k. So the M5 version that has 4k would be the M40.

8)


I will make a guess: that the M50 is more expensive than M6 -- about the same price as M5; same format as M6 (external EVF on hotshoe); and have still photography features like M6.

Well, from there it seems reasonable to extrapolate : adding a good 4K footage (even 30P) without changing either processor and/or sensor type seems higly unlikely.

Maybe, the 90D with the latest digic 7 could prove me wrong. Wait and see!

It's entirely possible that it's a new processor or a variant on an existing one, like Digic7C or some such, though.

I am quite confused now

For 4K, the 5DMk4 has digic 6, so if digic 6 can do uhd, can digic 7? (if you have 2 of them). So what would the EOS M50 have?

The M5 has digic 7, and does not do 4K. Is that a marketing or technical decision (same could be asked about the EOS 6DMk2 I guess?)

M50 should be lower in the model range than M5 or M6 (using other Canon number schemes as a guide).

For me it is all about the stills performance, I am not a videographer, so it does not bother me if there is no video capabilities. I know that other people do care greatly about video, so there has to be a good balance where photographers and vloggers will be happy.

I don't think we will see anything more than p25/p30 UHD, unless Canon decices to allow a p50/60 but at a fairly low bit rate (30-40Mb/s) which is okay for you tube, or maybe some b-roll?

I have the original EOS-M, and its impossible to use in bright sunlight, the LCD is just unusable, so like my DSLRs, I need a viewfinder, and having a £200+ option, like on the M6 is just ridiculous.

I could buy an alternative, like the Panasonic Tz100 (think thats it) but I really want to use the 11-22 mm M lens that I have, as landscape and architecture are my thing.

Well, I guess we will have to wait and see

 

[rrcphoto]

Canon needs to have the drive to push through these technical boundaries and they won’t do that unless people demand it.

people complaining in forum posts is not demanding it, it's simply annoying everyone else.

write to canon and express your displeasure. email chuck westfall even. that's demanding it.

similarly, write to vendors that don't support the EF-M mount ifyou want more lenses for it, such as Sigma.

 

[transpo1]

Canon needs to have the drive to push through these technical boundaries and they won’t do that unless people demand it.

people complaining in forum posts is not demanding it, it's simply annoying everyone else.

write to canon and express your displeasure. email chuck westfall even. that's demanding it.

similarly, write to vendors that don't support the EF-M mount ifyou want more lenses for it, such as Sigma.

I disagree- forums generate (and are) word of mouth. But we can do those other things you suggested, too- all good ideas.

 

[Talys]

I disagree- forums generate (and are) word of mouth. But we can do those other things you suggested, too- all good ideas.

Forums turn into echo chambers, like a lot of the Internet.

In my opinion, the overwhelming majority of ILC purchasers have never posted to a camera forum before, and only see stuff in forums in the context of google/bing searches. I think that the people who post on forums like this are not representative of the market.

And to put it another way, I think most of the money in the ILC business is made off of relatively inexpensive bodies to people who own relatively few, inexpensive lenses.

 

[rrcphoto]

Canon needs to have the drive to push through these technical boundaries and they won’t do that unless people demand it.

people complaining in forum posts is not demanding it, it's simply annoying everyone else.

write to canon and express your displeasure. email chuck westfall even. that's demanding it.

similarly, write to vendors that don't support the EF-M mount ifyou want more lenses for it, such as Sigma.

I disagree- forums generate (and are) word of mouth. But we can do those other things you suggested, too- all good ideas.

word of mouth does nothing to change the opinion of canon,et all.

if you think your opinion is worthy, then say it to the source. forums are just that, a collection of people talking, canon probably doesn't even monitor the chatter.

but stating it to chuck or canon USA? that gets talked about at the regional meetings they have.

 

[EduPortas]

The floodgates are about to open.

4K has become popular enough for the masses, so Canon cannot ignore it any longer.

Since this will be a relatively low price consumer model, they need to include that feature,
even if it's a watered-down version of 4K.

Try to see this small, entry-level mirrorless model as a gateway-drug to Canon's high end gear and lenses.

 

[unfocused]

Canon needs to have the drive to push through these technical boundaries and they won’t do that unless people demand it.

people complaining in forum posts is not demanding it, it's simply annoying everyone else.

write to canon and express your displeasure. email chuck westfall even. that's demanding it.

similarly, write to vendors that don't support the EF-M mount ifyou want more lenses for it, such as Sigma.

I disagree- forums generate (and are) word of mouth. But we can do those other things you suggested, too- all good ideas.

word of mouth does nothing to change the opinion of canon,et all.

if you think your opinion is worthy, then say it to the source. forums are just that, a collection of people talking, canon probably doesn't even monitor the chatter.

but stating it to chuck or canon USA? that gets talked about at the regional meetings they have.

Keep in mind also that Canon does extensive market research, which is far more reliable. Self-selection skews results. Any good research requires that the researcher select the subjects, rather than the other way around. So, making noise may have some small impact, but only if the market research confirms what the squeaky wheels are saying.

Of course, Canon also has access to massive amounts of sales data which reflects real world purchase decisions, rather than speculation.

While Canon may look at chatter on the Internet, it's almost certainly at the macro level -- unlikely to be at the granular level of individual forum posts.

Accept that no one really cares about what an individual does. What researchers care about is the aggregate. Individuals are fools. But crowds are genius.

 

[stevelee]

The floodgates are about to open.

4K has become popular enough for the masses, so Canon cannot ignore it any longer.

Since this will be a relatively low price consumer model, they need to include that feature,
even if it's a watered-down version of 4K.

Try to see this small, entry-level mirrorless model as a gateway-drug to Canon's high end gear and lenses.

I can see how having low bitrate 4K makes sense in a relatively low-price consumer camera, but would be an embarrassment in a semi-pro/enthusiast model. When I shoot video with my iPhone, I always shoot 4K. It doesn't look half bad, and having all those pixels means I can crop down to make up partly for not having telephoto lenses on it, and still produce decent 1080p output.

I don't know where the tradeoffs are. There is likely some bitrate below which 1080p or 1080i/720p looks better than 4K, but I don't know whether that falls within the range of what is used today, and whether anybody sitting a normal distance away from a TV under 60" could tell a difference.

 

[unfocused]

...I don't know whether that falls within the range of what is used today, and whether anybody sitting a normal distance away from a TV under 60" could tell a difference.

Keep in mind that very little video is viewed on television sets. (Maybe a few people use television like the old home projector, but that's almost exclusively limited to self-gratification.)

Almost all video is consumed on smartphones, tablets or laptops, with smartphones being the dominant device.

 

[transpo1]

Canon needs to have the drive to push through these technical boundaries and they won’t do that unless people demand it.

people complaining in forum posts is not demanding it, it's simply annoying everyone else.

write to canon and express your displeasure. email chuck westfall even. that's demanding it.

similarly, write to vendors that don't support the EF-M mount ifyou want more lenses for it, such as Sigma.

I disagree- forums generate (and are) word of mouth. But we can do those other things you suggested, too- all good ideas.

word of mouth does nothing to change the opinion of canon,et all.

if you think your opinion is worthy, then say it to the source. forums are just that, a collection of people talking, canon probably doesn't even monitor the chatter.

but stating it to chuck or canon USA? that gets talked about at the regional meetings they have.

Keep in mind also that Canon does extensive market research, which is far more reliable. Self-selection skews results. Any good research requires that the researcher select the subjects, rather than the other way around. So, making noise may have some small impact, but only if the market research confirms what the squeaky wheels are saying.

Of course, Canon also has access to massive amounts of sales data which reflects real world purchase decisions, rather than speculation.

While Canon may look at chatter on the Internet, it's almost certainly at the macro level -- unlikely to be at the granular level of individual forum posts.

Accept that no one really cares about what an individual does. What researchers care about is the aggregate. Individuals are fools. But crowds are genius.

Individual forum and social media posts make up the aggregate and macro level and if they are finally putting 4K into their consumer lineup in a serious way, then they are seeing sales data and market research that shows there is money to be made from it, which is what I’ve been saying all along. Not that I’m taking credit for it- I’m just one of many voices asking for that feature. But you can’t have the macro and aggregate without the individual.

And speaking as one who works closely with a tech company that specializes in AI analysis of internet data, every key word counts

 

[BillB]

Canon needs to have the drive to push through these technical boundaries and they won’t do that unless people demand it.

people complaining in forum posts is not demanding it, it's simply annoying everyone else.

write to canon and express your displeasure. email chuck westfall even. that's demanding it.

similarly, write to vendors that don't support the EF-M mount ifyou want more lenses for it, such as Sigma.

I disagree- forums generate (and are) word of mouth. But we can do those other things you suggested, too- all good ideas.

word of mouth does nothing to change the opinion of canon,et all.

if you think your opinion is worthy, then say it to the source. forums are just that, a collection of people talking, canon probably doesn't even monitor the chatter.

but stating it to chuck or canon USA? that gets talked about at the regional meetings they have.

Keep in mind also that Canon does extensive market research, which is far more reliable. Self-selection skews results. Any good research requires that the researcher select the subjects, rather than the other way around. So, making noise may have some small impact, but only if the market research confirms what the squeaky wheels are saying.

Of course, Canon also has access to massive amounts of sales data which reflects real world purchase decisions, rather than speculation.

While Canon may look at chatter on the Internet, it's almost certainly at the macro level -- unlikely to be at the granular level of individual forum posts.

Accept that no one really cares about what an individual does. What researchers care about is the aggregate. Individuals are fools. But crowds are genius.

Individual forum and social media posts make up the aggregate and macro level and if they are finally putting 4K into their consumer lineup in a serious way, then they are seeing sales data and market research that shows there is money to be made from it, which is what I’ve been saying all along. Not that I’m taking credit for it- I’m just one of many voices asking for that feature. But you can’t have the macro and aggregate without the individual.

And speaking as one who works closely with a tech company that specializes in AI analysis of internet data, every key word counts

Whatever the merits expressing consumer support for more 4K video, at this point Canon is very close to a significant rollout, if this CR3 rumor is right. The big consumer input at this point will be how well this camera sells. It looks like there is going to be a camera (that decision was made a while ago) and specific design decisions were locked in a while ago too. It is hard for me to understand exactly how Internet forum chatter is going to have any influence on Canon at this point. Apparently Canon has decided to test the market, and we will likely soon know how Canon has decided to bet on 4K video techology and a lot of questions are going to get sorted out by the marketplace in the next next couple of years. Not sure how key words are going to make much of a difference at this point.

 

[Deleted member 380306]

I read somewhere that if they dropped the optical low-pass filter on Canon cameras if would greatly improve image quality, lets hope they do this here.

As for 4k, well people have been asking for it for a long time but whether it's needed or not isn't really the issue, Canon not having it on new camera's they bring out has only gone on to upset consumers thus amplifying an issue were many now look at Canon as a company that likes to hold back tech from customers, we all know this has been an issue, it's a big problem with the 6dii, you pay all that money for that camera which has some top features for video, flip out screen, IS and yet we have poor video quality! And then there's that DR issue.... I welcome 4k to this camera and hope we see more tech like IS, weather proofing, in body USB charging etc

 

[transpo1]

Canon needs to have the drive to push through these technical boundaries and they won’t do that unless people demand it.

people complaining in forum posts is not demanding it, it's simply annoying everyone else.

write to canon and express your displeasure. email chuck westfall even. that's demanding it.

similarly, write to vendors that don't support the EF-M mount ifyou want more lenses for it, such as Sigma.

I disagree- forums generate (and are) word of mouth. But we can do those other things you suggested, too- all good ideas.

word of mouth does nothing to change the opinion of canon,et all.

if you think your opinion is worthy, then say it to the source. forums are just that, a collection of people talking, canon probably doesn't even monitor the chatter.

but stating it to chuck or canon USA? that gets talked about at the regional meetings they have.

Keep in mind also that Canon does extensive market research, which is far more reliable. Self-selection skews results. Any good research requires that the researcher select the subjects, rather than the other way around. So, making noise may have some small impact, but only if the market research confirms what the squeaky wheels are saying.

Of course, Canon also has access to massive amounts of sales data which reflects real world purchase decisions, rather than speculation.

While Canon may look at chatter on the Internet, it's almost certainly at the macro level -- unlikely to be at the granular level of individual forum posts.

Accept that no one really cares about what an individual does. What researchers care about is the aggregate. Individuals are fools. But crowds are genius.

Individual forum and social media posts make up the aggregate and macro level and if they are finally putting 4K into their consumer lineup in a serious way, then they are seeing sales data and market research that shows there is money to be made from it, which is what I’ve been saying all along. Not that I’m taking credit for it- I’m just one of many voices asking for that feature. But you can’t have the macro and aggregate without the individual.

And speaking as one who works closely with a tech company that specializes in AI analysis of internet data, every key word counts

Whatever the merits expressing consumer support for more 4K video, at this point Canon is very close to a significant rollout, if this CR3 rumor is right. The big consumer input at this point will be how well this camera sells. It looks like there is going to be a camera (that decision was made a while ago) and specific design decisions were locked in a while ago too. It is hard for me to understand exactly how Internet forum chatter is going to have any influence on Canon at this point. Apparently Canon has decided to test the market, and we will likely soon know how Canon has decided to bet on 4K video techology and a lot of questions are going to get sorted out by the marketplace in the next next couple of years. Not sure how key words are going to make much of a difference at this point.

Well, the keywords already made their impact but we’ve got to keep it going

If the 4K in the camera’s good, I will be VERY happy to put my money where my mouth is and buy it.