The Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 won’t ship for a while

koenkooi

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Feb 25, 2015
1,804
1,721
Knowing a top-line spec doesn't mean you know the fine print, like (none of this confirmed, I'm just riffing here):
  • 20 fps e-shutter... with AF locked at first exposure, or JPG / compressed RAW only
  • 12 fps mechanical... but only 5 fps when you need Eye AF or servo/tracking working
Stuff like that. Especially on the e-shutter / higher fps side of things, I'd be stunned if we get full RAW files with all AF features turned on.
[..]

The 1DX3 drops down to 12-bit RAW in all e-shutter modes, I expect the R5 to do the same. The M6II can do AF and AE in its 30fps burst mode, so I don't expect the R5 to lack that.
 
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Starting out EOS R

EOS R5 - RF24-105mm F4L, RF70-200mm f2.8L
Feb 13, 2020
294
315
Good to know. Have never done it before, but especially with the concern over supply and stock I'd like to get the R5 as soon as possible, my 5D3 could really be on its last legs. I'd almost pick up a 5D4 awhile since I love the one I use at my job, but I probably won't buy another camera for at least the next 4 years after this year, and would like to be able to pick up RF lenses along the way, like the 28-70. I like the EOS R my work has, but i just would not want to put up with the viewfinder delay and control scheme when we're so close to far better, updated tech.
Like you, I have never pre ordered but will this time to replace my R. As you say, the R is a good camera but the controls are a little annoying. I've got used to them have no issues now as I've changed the button and control dial functions to how I like them. for me the R5 gives me the uncropped 4K video & FPS the R is missing, along with a more user friendly layout.
I did wonder about waiting to order until all the bugs are sorted with firmware updates but I've been pretty impressed with how Canon quickly identifies issues and gets new Firmware releases out, based on what they did with the R and RF 70-200mm initial problems. It gives me confidence they will do the same or even faster with the R5 due to how high profile it is.
 
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reefroamer

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Jun 21, 2014
105
130
The slow-roll of the R5 (and R6) announcement reinforces my view that these new cameras will be introduced at blockbuster prices below USD $3,000. Canon has already dribbled out most of the specs, benefitting from months of media hype and speculation. What shocking news is left now to make headlines on the official announcement day? An industry-shocking low-price that sucks the air from competitors' sails and generates an immediate and huge back-order list that will keep your factories humming for many months despite a pandemic that has consumers hoarding their cash. Folks, this is not business as usual for Canon or anyone else. Companies are not so much worried about profits now as much as survival. Anyways, just my 2 cents. Obviously, I could be wrong.
 
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padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,251
910
The slow-roll of the R5 (and R6) announcement reinforces my view that these new cameras will be introduced at blockbuster prices below USD $3,000. Canon has already dribbled out most of the specs, benefitting from months of media hype and speculation. What shocking news is left now to make headlines on the official announcement day? An industry-shocking low-price that sucks the air from competitors' sails and generates an immediate and huge back-order list that will keep your factories humming for many months despite a pandemic that has consumers hoarding their cash. Folks, this is not business as usual for Canon or anyone else. Companies are not so much worried about profits now as much as survival. Anyways, just my 2 cents. Obviously, I could be wrong.
They are not going to lower the starting price in any way, especially for desirable products like these, that's for sure, the IBIS on it own for any EF or RF lenses is very attractive for most people.
They almost always increase prices with new cameras and lenses, one exemption was the 1DX Mark II, which was "only" 6000$ over the 6800$ for the original 1DX (maybe the exchange rate was much different before), but now the Mark III is back again at 6500$.
(and no, there is no 'special pandemic package' with 2x1TB CFExpress cards for free...)

The MSRP of the 5D Mark IV, which is generally the "level" of what this camera is aimed at was 3500$.
And this camera looks to be much stronger and better featured, having things like 4k120p, which is not even in the 1DX Mark III, it seems like a much bigger jump forward.
So the MSRP would surely increase. But over 4000$ seems to much, so it looks to be a decent starter point, or maybe even slightly higher for the few first months, were people could struggle to even get one, no matter how much it is going to cost, people may be trying to flip them for a profit, like it was with the BMPCC4K initially. Canon is not stupid, they might do this initial flipping profit bit from themselves, if they did their market research about setting the right pricing, they certainly know the availability better than we do.

The R6 will be in a completely different, lower class (so cheaper RF lenses are definitely coming) and its pricing can be determined easier once we know how much it has been crippled in comparison, but from the semi-vague specs it looks to be around the 2000$ mark, where the 6D Mark II started, but with way worse video specs, depends if it uses a lower capacity battery, if the dynamic range of the sensor remains in the low category, just like it did with the 6D Mark II over the 6D, etc.

The R6 certainly looks to be very appealing to the YT creator market, which seems to be growing for now as well as the 'cheap' new Canon mirrorless camera to shoot weddings with, since it looks to come with two card slots (UHS-II seems to be logical as well, smallest and cheapest)
 
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Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,844
2,453
Alberta, Canada
The premise of this thread: "As for the official Canon EOS R5 announcement? I can’t see Canon dragging it out another 60-90 days, that would crush the hype train that they’ve been building, as there is not much more to tell us about the camera besides very specific specifications and price."

From Canon: "On the set of high-end productions such as commercials, dramas and documentaries, the EOS R5 is an ideal partner to the likes of Canon’s brand-new EOS C300 Mark III – a next generation modular Cinema EOS System camera launched today."

They sure are trying to maintain hype while giving us precious little more, but this is pretty powerful bragging on the video side.



Jack
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
The R6 will be in a completely different, lower class (so cheaper RF lenses are definitely coming) and its pricing can be determined easier once we know how much it has been crippled in comparison, but from the semi-vague specs it looks to be around the 2000$ mark, where the 6D Mark II started but with way worse video specs, depends if it uses a lower capacity battery, if the dynamic range of the sensor remains in the low category just like it did with the 6D Mark II over the 6D, etc.


I am not convinced that a 20 MP in the R6 means that it will be a budget offering. The RP is already cheap as hell and is packing ancient sensor architecture in there.

It's possible R and RP die off as lines in the portfolio and we slide into some 1DX/5D/6D orthodoxy because that's what Canon likes, that's what Canon thinks the market will continue to look like, etc. I've speculated what this might look like before:


...or the R6 is some low light monster video specialist (which I think is less likely).

- A
 

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,251
910
I am not convinced that a 20 MP in the R6 means that it will be a budget offering. The RP is already cheap as hell and is packing ancient sensor architecture in there.

It's possible R and RP die off as lines in the portfolio and we slide into some 1DX/5D/6D orthodoxy because that's what Canon likes, that's what Canon thinks the market will continue to look like, etc. I've speculated what this might look like before:


...or the R6 is some low light monster video specialist (which I think is less likely).

- A
No top LCD - that is an easy giveaway for a 'budget' EOS R system camera, as well as a cheaper LCD screen and EVF and so on, and of course there is the naming. Maybe they can keep the joystick in, since even the 90D has it now (or the A7III, etc.), that would be nice to have but maybe it will be too small for that. Same with the battery, I think they want to keep the size and weight lower.

No no, the R and RP are certainly not dying, they are far too young for that, they remain firmly in production. Sony did exactly the same with their mirrorless cameras, they are in the 4th gen of cameras as the product cycles are short. And even with that in mind, only the 1st gen cameras are starting to become discontinued. (Even the 5D IV or 6D II are not discontinued, and they are much older)
The RP is far, far cheaper still, the cheapest entry to the system, there will be some overlap with the EOS R having a few features:
There is obviously the megapixel count, the nice big EVF and screen, more rigid build.
And I reckon 10-bit 4:2:2 Canon Log and the sensor with the better dynamic range will be kept for the R as well.
So, it is still very much a nice B-cam to use on a tripod, it is also kind of logical to save costs on both hardware and software on the R6.
While the EOS R6 having other important things (IBIS, dual cards, faster stills frame rates, much better video specs apart from Log recording).
 
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ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
No no, the R and RP are certainly not dying, they are far too young for that, they remain firmly in production.


Forgive me, I wasn't clear. R and RP aren't going away -- they'll have a normal lifecycle, they won't be prematurely put to pasture or anything, etc.

I'm just wondering if Canon will abandon sequel-ing those lines in favor of reverting to the more familiar landscape of R1 / R5 / R6 'tier-ing' of value to users now that they have fully committed to FF mirrorless.

Or, put another way. If the R5 is basically a mirrorless 5D5 and the R6 will be the mirrorless 6D3, what place/niche/user would there be for an R Mark II?

Everything about EOS R reads as a first try, concept car, new feature platform, etc. It was fine, but it didn't nail some unmet need for control scheme or win major plaudits for what was new (other than the main attraction of the flange depth / mount / control ring setup itself). And with the R5 way more people seem to be happy with the 5D wheel coming back than those that are crying about the touch bar going away, so I just wonder if an EOS R Mark II needs to happen at all.

- A
 

padam

EOS R
Aug 26, 2015
1,251
910
Forgive me, I wasn't clear. R and RP aren't going away -- they'll have a normal lifecycle, they won't be prematurely put to pasture or anything, etc.

I'm just wondering if Canon will abandon sequel-ing those lines in favor of reverting to the more familiar landscape of R1 / R5 / R6 'tier-ing' of value to users now that they have fully committed to FF mirrorless.

Or, put another way. If the R5 is basically a mirrorless 5D5 and the R6 will be the mirrorless 6D3, what place/niche/user would there be for an R Mark II?

Everything about EOS R reads as a first try, concept car, new feature platform, etc. It was fine, but it didn't nail some unmet need for control scheme or win major plaudits for what was new (other than the main attraction of the flange depth / mount / control ring setup itself). And with the R5 way more people seem to be happy with the 5D wheel coming back than those that are crying about the touch bar going away, I just wonder if an EOS R Mark II needs to happen at all.

- A
I guess yes, they will be abandoning it if they like the R1 naming, in terms of the true flagship mirrorless, it can start right from there as they didn't start on the 1DX Mark II but I don't think they are waiting yet another generation, the 1DX III looks like a strong mirrorless basis as-is for a flagship model with other technical improvements added in with the extra year it needs to be released.

I don't think they need more than three general levels of FF products in a given R generation, excluding high-megapixel and other special models and of course crop sensors, there is just some overlap with some of the older ones running parallel and being cheaper.
The EOS R now became the 'value' higher-megapixel R with Canon Log and they are not going to "facelift" it.

The EOS R5 can be considered as the EOS R Mark II, just at the same time moved higher in the product range with the missing features filled in (and the R5 Mark II that would be an EOS R Mark III, and so on)
The EOS R6 RP relationship is probably similar, it will cost more or less twice as much, but much more technically up to spec with the IBIS, while still being limited in some ways (will it keep a small battery with IBIS? that would certainly be a problem but hopefully they've figured that people want the LP-E6NH in there even if it becomes bigger and heavier)
 
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reefroamer

EOS 90D
CR Pro
Jun 21, 2014
105
130
I think the RP will be around for awhile as Canon's bottom-feeder. The price will keep dropping and dropping, but it will protect the soft underbelly of the Canon beast and provide an inexpensive entry point to the R/RF system. Today's RP buyers are tomorrow's R5 and Rx1 buyers and RF lens collectors. Good plan, I think. Look what a good job of that the Rebel has done.
 

CanonFanBoy

Purple
CR Pro
Jan 28, 2015
5,632
4,039
Irving, Texas
Well, thankfully, the R isn't stifling anything I want to do. For me, it is a wonderful camera. :) I can see R5s Mark ? in my future someday, but glass still remains my focus. Still ISO an RF 70-135. Until then, I'll sit here and just gel. :)

The R5 is a very exciting camera, but it would be as practical to me and my situation as buying a Ferrari to go get groceries with. Within 2 hours of where I now live there are fairly decent small homes that can be had for $30k - $50k in small farming towns. I'd probably have to replace the "avocado" or "harvest gold" colored appliances, but still. Frankly, I need my viewfinder pointed in that direction even before I get another lens. Ready to get out of the city and quit renting. A paid for roof over my head would be a lot of security to have. There's nothing like a pandemic to rearrange one's priorities.

Now, there used to be a joke about a camel and donkey in the desert... ;)
 
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TAF

EOS RP
CR Pro
Feb 26, 2012
461
147
...or the R6 is some low light monster video specialist (which I think is less likely).

- A

I think that highly likely, actually.

Extreme low light performance with IBIS just screams surveillance model. Law enforcement is always looking for better tech.