The Unthinkable: Swapped out 5D3 for 6D

[papaxyang]

tough decision to make, i can't live without my 5DIII, the AF is what I need on my shots, and also the higher dynamic range for the HDRs. but hey, everyone has different needs =]

 

[jrista]

How does the light condition look like at -3EV? Who photographs at -3EV? Are those pics usable without flash? The 6D has only a very slim theoretical advantage (if one may call it that) over the 5D Mark III. In real terms, there's no reason why anyone would choose the 6D, with its primitive AF system, over the 5D Mark III. The only fact that makes sense is if you can't afford the 5D Mark III. That's the only, true reason here. Period!

I shoot at -3EV more than I would like to. But I do it. I have a baby and another young child in the house. There are also plenty of times when we are out at night and I don't have my flash with me. This weekend alone, we are going on a carriage ride at 8pm through a decorated neighborhood where there will be -3EV conditions a lot.

Again though, the center point of the 6D was not my motivation for making the swap. Just making a point.

Your assessment of why anyone would choose a 6D over a 5D3 is quite flawed and already proven to be so based on several users here in this thread alone. I already owned a 5D3 (two of them at one point). Furthermore, I'm pretty sure my glass collection alone covers the value of everything you have in your signature (if we want to get into being able to afford things). ;D

I don't want to get into that (because I haven't listed in my signature everything I own 8) ). ... Unless you're using a 1DX, pics snapped at very high ISOs aren't usable.

Wow, that is simply not a tenable statement.

ISO 20,000 from the 6D, no additional noise reduction:


ISO 25,600 (6D) - this one is licensed through Getty, has been purchased for commercial use, and I have directly sold art prints of it.


ISO 25,600 (6D) - taken at an event I was there to shoot professionally - client was very happy.


My point? These are just a few examples of images that I have personally taken at very high ISOs with 6Ds that have had critical and commercial success. As long as you nail exposure, images even at ISO 25,600 are often very usable. It has been further noted that the noise from the 6D renders much more like film grain, superior even to the 5DIII in that regard.

Just to be fair, you DID apply noise reduction...by downsampling. Those are all downsampled by a fairly significant degree, and the filtering algorithm (usually BiCubic) applied during downsampling averages pixels together, which reduces noise. So, it really isn't fair to say there was no NR whatsoever. Even if you didn't use an explicit noise reduction tool, the downsampling itself is a form of NR.

That said, I totally agree...very high ISO settings are indeed usable on the 6D, 5D III, and 1D X. I've seen some bird photographs taken at ISO 51200 that had a minor amount of NR applied, and they looked as good or better than ISO 3200 from my 7D!!

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

How does the light condition look like at -3EV? Who photographs at -3EV? Are those pics usable without flash? The 6D has only a very slim theoretical advantage (if one may call it that) over the 5D Mark III. In real terms, there's no reason why anyone would choose the 6D, with its primitive AF system, over the 5D Mark III. The only fact that makes sense is if you can't afford the 5D Mark III. That's the only, true reason here. Period!

I shoot at -3EV more than I would like to. But I do it. I have a baby and another young child in the house. There are also plenty of times when we are out at night and I don't have my flash with me. This weekend alone, we are going on a carriage ride at 8pm through a decorated neighborhood where there will be -3EV conditions a lot.

Again though, the center point of the 6D was not my motivation for making the swap. Just making a point.

Your assessment of why anyone would choose a 6D over a 5D3 is quite flawed and already proven to be so based on several users here in this thread alone. I already owned a 5D3 (two of them at one point). Furthermore, I'm pretty sure my glass collection alone covers the value of everything you have in your signature (if we want to get into being able to afford things). ;D

I don't want to get into that (because I haven't listed in my signature everything I own 8) ). ... Unless you're using a 1DX, pics snapped at very high ISOs aren't usable.

Wow, that is simply not a tenable statement.


My point? These are just a few examples of images that I have personally taken at very high ISOs with 6Ds that have had critical and commercial success. As long as you nail exposure, images even at ISO 25,600 are often very usable. It has been further noted that the noise from the 6D renders much more like film grain, superior even to the 5DIII in that regard.

Just to be fair, you DID apply noise reduction...by downsampling. Those are all downsampled by a fairly significant degree, and the filtering algorithm (usually BiCubic) applied during downsampling averages pixels together, which reduces noise. So, it really isn't fair to say there was no NR whatsoever. Even if you didn't use an explicit noise reduction tool, the downsampling itself is a form of NR.

That said, I totally agree...very high ISO settings are indeed usable on the 6D, 5D III, and 1D X. I've seen some bird photographs taken at ISO 51200 that had a minor amount of NR applied, and they looked as good or better than ISO 3200 from my 7D!!

Your point is true only for the way they are shared here. The commercial use of these images are full size, without downsizing...and those images are still remarkably clean, even at pixel level.

 

[Dylan777]

I actually made the same moves as you John, and for the same reasons. However, after using my 6D for only a few months I soon realized that I sorely missed the more advanced AF system of the 5DIII and have since sold the 6D and bought a 5DIII...again. Although the 6D is truly a superb FF DSLR, I found myself (as an amateur) unable to get a sufficient keeper rate using fast glass and the outer AF points, therefore I would end up using only the center AF point and cropping in because focus-and-recompose at < f/1.4 is not especially effective. Although I do miss the aforementioned features of the 6D, including the -3EV center point, built-in Wi-Fi and that all of the buttons are located on the right side for easy, one-handed access, the 5DIII is in fact a better camera and is therefore priced accordingly.

Overall, I did lose a couple hundred bucks by selling the 5DIII to pick up a 6D, and then selling the 6D to pick up a 5DIII, so if I can give any suggestions from my experience it would be to first and foremost go with the one you can afford and if that is either of them, then go with the 5DIII. The only reason I can see someone downgrading from a 5DIII to a 6D is for cost reasons (as is the case with the OP and me), whereas many 6D users perceive the 5DIII as the next step in the upgrade path due to the more professional features (AF system, dual cards, robust body, etc.), hence the cost difference. Either way, both are excellent bodies and offer some noteworthy features over one another, but if both cameras were priced the same I'd be willing to bet that nearly all of those saying that the 6D is a better camera would end up purchasing the 5DIII or eventually exchanging for it because overall, it is a better camera (although from a $/performance standpoint the 6D clearly wins). Just thought I'd share my experiences ;D

What's the light condition looks like at -3EV? Who photograph at -3EV?

6D might have the advantage with -3EV(on paper speaking), however, will it focus accurate under that light condition or even under -2EV?

To me, having 41 cross-type AF points and 5 dual diagonal AF points are MUST better than 1 AF point camera.

OP will miss his 5D III when he needs to shoot something like this: http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/t302HPVC/1/6306064

Interestingly, one of my primary uses for that is when using a heavy ND filter (10 stop). Traditional focusing is almost impossible (viewfinder is dark and even live view only shows so much). When I used a 5DII I often would have to mount the ND filter after focusing, running the risk of slightly affecting focus. The 6D can focus just fine with my ND filter attached.

My 5D III focus just fine with 10stop ND @ f9 TWI by Dustin Abbott

My 2cents: There is nothing that 6D can do that 5D III can't - except wifi + GPS feature. Same thing to 1D x, there is nothing 5D III can do that 1D X can't - except better.

I do look forward to be an owner of 1D someday : and I'm sure we all look forward to that day - to shoot with better and faster camera

 

[Wildfire]

Funny that you post this thread, JohnDizzo15. I recently did something even unthinkabler!

I "upgraded" from full frame to crop. Sold my 6D/24-105 and purchased 60D from Canon for about $475 (refurbished) and a 17-55 f2.8 for $520 (LensAuthority Black Friday doorbuster!)

Really happy with the 60D so far. Being able to use the outer points in all situations is great! Though I have to be much more careful when selecting an ISO, the 18mp RAWs are the same fantastic, sharp, Canon images I am used to. 6.5 frames per second is incredibly fun!

The only thing I don't really like about the 60D is that it doesn't work as well with my 600EX-RTs as the 6D did, but that's just giving me an excuse to sell them and pick up the studio strobes I've been wanting instead. And I haven't even touched the 17-55 yet, it barely came in the mail.

I suspect my images with the new setup will be just as good as they were with the full frame combo, yet I am more than a thousand bucks richer. 8)

(yes, I have officially become one of those togs... you know the ones, who say that taking great images doesn't mean having expensive gear)

 

[Canon1]

The 5D3 is a great camera but not worth (at least to me) the $3400 price tag. After reading people's thoughts and reviews I was expecting a powerhouse of a camera, and it really wasn't. I just couldn't justify spending the money on it to upgrade. The 7D is a VERY fast camera and very hard to beat in that department. I shot BIF (birds, raptors exactly, in flight) with the 5D3 and got 10 times more blurry bird shots than I did with my 7D! (Yes I KNOW how to set up my camera for birds in flight, I am NOT new to this! Please don't waste your time telling me how I didn't know what I was doing... I always select the center point on AF and use AI Servo...) I was also using my own EF 70-300L on the 5D3. That lens is lighting fast on AF, so I know the fault wasn't with the lens.

Not trying to start a fight here but.... you definitely didn't have the 5DIII AF set up correctly for the type of shooting you were doing (or something else was going on). I have shot extensively with Rebels, 7D, 1DIV, 5DII and 5DIII for BIF... hands down the 5DIII is the best out of all of these regarding AF speed and accuracy. The 7D does have a very good AF system but once you get the setup right on the 5DIII it is nothing short of amazing.

Regarding the OP. Glad you sorted out your priorities. It sounds like you are looking for some justification for your decision from the forum and there are definitely a lot of people who think along similar lines. The 5DIII is a fully customizable workhorse and for many shooters it is certainly overkill. The cameras you are using are great and will not hold you back from making great images. Happy shooting.

Canon1, would you please share your setup for the 5DIII? I have been shooting with the 6D and I am not happy with it's AF, particularly it's slow focus lock time using a 70-300Lens. My 60D is much better.

So I intend to sell the 6D and buy a III. I shot a lot of birds and think I will be much happier.

Sure. This is what works for me:

Tracking sensitivity set to "-2": I use this setting most of the time. Once I acquire focus on a BIF this setting helps to keep it locked on despite whether the focus point moves off the bird for a moment or another bird passes between the desired subject (or a tree passes between as the bird flies by, etc...) This can slow down the initial acquisition s tiny bit but is un-noticable on ast primes. If using a slower AF lens like 100-400 then you can bump this setting to "-1"

Accel/decel tracking set to "+2": Many birds are erratic in flight, this helps keep lock on. (not as big a deal with slow subjects like geese but this really helps with fishing terns, etc...

Af Point autoswitching: I dont care about this setting. I don't use 61 pt AF Auto selection...

I also very frequently use 4 point AF Expansion. When shooting BIF that don't fill much of the frame it can be difficult to get the center point over the BIF to acquire intitial lock. Using 4 Point expansion really helps especially when shooting handheld and not from a gimball head.

Should go without saying that camera is also in AI Servo and high speed burst and all lenses calibrated with focal pro....

Hope this info helps.

 

[jrista]

How does the light condition look like at -3EV? Who photographs at -3EV? Are those pics usable without flash? The 6D has only a very slim theoretical advantage (if one may call it that) over the 5D Mark III. In real terms, there's no reason why anyone would choose the 6D, with its primitive AF system, over the 5D Mark III. The only fact that makes sense is if you can't afford the 5D Mark III. That's the only, true reason here. Period!

I shoot at -3EV more than I would like to. But I do it. I have a baby and another young child in the house. There are also plenty of times when we are out at night and I don't have my flash with me. This weekend alone, we are going on a carriage ride at 8pm through a decorated neighborhood where there will be -3EV conditions a lot.

Again though, the center point of the 6D was not my motivation for making the swap. Just making a point.

Your assessment of why anyone would choose a 6D over a 5D3 is quite flawed and already proven to be so based on several users here in this thread alone. I already owned a 5D3 (two of them at one point). Furthermore, I'm pretty sure my glass collection alone covers the value of everything you have in your signature (if we want to get into being able to afford things). ;D

I don't want to get into that (because I haven't listed in my signature everything I own 8) ). ... Unless you're using a 1DX, pics snapped at very high ISOs aren't usable.

Wow, that is simply not a tenable statement.


My point? These are just a few examples of images that I have personally taken at very high ISOs with 6Ds that have had critical and commercial success. As long as you nail exposure, images even at ISO 25,600 are often very usable. It has been further noted that the noise from the 6D renders much more like film grain, superior even to the 5DIII in that regard.

Just to be fair, you DID apply noise reduction...by downsampling. Those are all downsampled by a fairly significant degree, and the filtering algorithm (usually BiCubic) applied during downsampling averages pixels together, which reduces noise. So, it really isn't fair to say there was no NR whatsoever. Even if you didn't use an explicit noise reduction tool, the downsampling itself is a form of NR.

That said, I totally agree...very high ISO settings are indeed usable on the 6D, 5D III, and 1D X. I've seen some bird photographs taken at ISO 51200 that had a minor amount of NR applied, and they looked as good or better than ISO 3200 from my 7D!!

Your point is true only for the way they are shared here. The commercial use of these images are full size, without downsizing...and those images are still remarkably clean, even at pixel level.

They will only be as clean as physics allows, because the physical nature of light completely dominates at high ISO. There is a few percent improvement with the 6D and 5D III over prior Canon cameras, but the margin isn't nearly as significant as the sizes here or the default sizes on Flickr would indicate. In explicit terms, the 1024x682 pixel max size photo on Flickr is a mere 3.5% of the total area of the native 6D 5472x3648 image (an area of 698,368 vs. 19,961,856 pixels). The Flickr image looks really good, but a hell of a lot of original information was factored into its creation.

Again, this is just to be fair and honest with the evaluation of the results. Yes, the 6D performs very well at high ISO, however that isn't really due to the fact that it has low noise. The 6D performs better than the 5D III because it has better color noise characteristics...noise-wise, there is less than a percent difference in actual noise vs. the 5D III, or for that matter the 5D II. It fares better than Canon 18mp sensors when downsampling due to the fact that there are more total pixels, and larger pixels with greater native SNR to factor into the final results than something like the 7D.

All I am saying is that using heavily downsampled images to demonstrate noise levels or noise quality is a rather unfair approach. The only way to truly demonstrate differences in noise is to use identical pictures taken with different cameras and compare (preferably, both at 100% and at a normalized size.)

 

[Dylan777]

The 5D3 is a great camera but not worth (at least to me) the $3400 price tag. After reading people's thoughts and reviews I was expecting a powerhouse of a camera, and it really wasn't. I just couldn't justify spending the money on it to upgrade. The 7D is a VERY fast camera and very hard to beat in that department. I shot BIF (birds, raptors exactly, in flight) with the 5D3 and got 10 times more blurry bird shots than I did with my 7D! (Yes I KNOW how to set up my camera for birds in flight, I am NOT new to this! Please don't waste your time telling me how I didn't know what I was doing... I always select the center point on AF and use AI Servo...) I was also using my own EF 70-300L on the 5D3. That lens is lighting fast on AF, so I know the fault wasn't with the lens.

Not trying to start a fight here but.... you definitely didn't have the 5DIII AF set up correctly for the type of shooting you were doing (or something else was going on). I have shot extensively with Rebels, 7D, 1DIV, 5DII and 5DIII for BIF... hands down the 5DIII is the best out of all of these regarding AF speed and accuracy. The 7D does have a very good AF system but once you get the setup right on the 5DIII it is nothing short of amazing.

Regarding the OP. Glad you sorted out your priorities. It sounds like you are looking for some justification for your decision from the forum and there are definitely a lot of people who think along similar lines. The 5DIII is a fully customizable workhorse and for many shooters it is certainly overkill. The cameras you are using are great and will not hold you back from making great images. Happy shooting.

Canon1, would you please share your setup for the 5DIII? I have been shooting with the 6D and I am not happy with it's AF, particularly it's slow focus lock time using a 70-300Lens. My 60D is much better.

So I intend to sell the 6D and buy a III. I shot a lot of birds and think I will be much happier.

Sure. This is what works for me:

Tracking sensitivity set to "-2": I use this setting most of the time. Once I acquire focus on a BIF this setting helps to keep it locked on despite whether the focus point moves off the bird for a moment or another bird passes between the desired subject (or a tree passes between as the bird flies by, etc...) This can slow down the initial acquisition s tiny bit but is un-noticable on ast primes. If using a slower AF lens like 100-400 then you can bump this setting to "-1"

Accel/decel tracking set to "+2": Many birds are erratic in flight, this helps keep lock on. (not as big a deal with slow subjects like geese but this really helps with fishing terns, etc...

Af Point autoswitching: I dont care about this setting. I don't use 61 pt AF Auto selection...

I also very frequently use 4 point AF Expansion. When shooting BIF that don't fill much of the frame it can be difficult to get the center point over the BIF to acquire intitial lock. Using 4 Point expansion really helps especially when shooting handheld and not from a gimball head.

Should go without saying that camera is also in AI Servo and high speed burst and all lenses calibrated with focal pro....

Hope this info helps.

Hi Canon1,
Looks like you and I have same setting here

AI servo, case# 2, 4-8points expansion.

Keeper rate is high, as you can see here: http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/t302HPVC/1/6306064

Out of 61 AF points, I only activate 41 cross type AF points and 5 dual cross type AF points on both of my 5D III.

 

[Grumbaki]

Went from 60D to 5d3 when 6d was already out. Just because focus recompose is a pain. 85L confirmed.

 

[Richard8971]

to have such consistent problems focusing indicates either operator error or a defective copy.

Well considering that honestly out of 1000+ shots I only got 3 or 4 (the rest were out of focus) I was happy with I would say that it is possible I got a bad copy, but who knows, maybe I'm just a shaky idiot. Canon had done a workshop and brought equipment to borrow so I got the 5D3 for the day. I stuck my 7D is my camera vest and slapped on my EF 70-300L.

I was shooting with 2 friends who had already owned the 5D3 for quite a while and I was shooting with all kinds of different settings throughout the day. I was asking tons of questions about the camera and I was gladly listening to their advice. Center point, AF expansion, aperture priority, whatever. I wanted to give the camera an honest try because I was getting ready to shell out the $3400 to buy one. Wildlife and raptors in flight are nothing new for me so I figured it would be the best way to give the camera a good workout.

And for the record I am not on a crusade to prove anything. $3400 is a ton of money and you know what they say about 1st impressions. I gave the camera an honest try and walked away disappointed.

May or may not try another 5D3. My 7D works just fine, I'll just stick with it.

D

 

[jrista]

to have such consistent problems focusing indicates either operator error or a defective copy.

Well considering that honestly out of 1000+ shots I only got 3 or 4 (the rest were out of focus) I was happy with I would say that it is possible I got a bad copy. Canon had done a workshop and brought equipment to borrow so I got the 5D3 for the day. I stuck my 7D is my camera vest and slapped on my EF 70-300L.

I was shooting with 2 friends who had already owned the 5D3 for quite a while and I was shooting with al kinds of different settings. I was asking tons of questions about the camera and I was gladly listening to their advice. Center point, AF expansion, aperture priority, whatever. I wanted to give the camera an honest try.

And for the record I am not on a crusade to prove anything. $3400 is a ton of mone

True, $3400 is a lot of money. No question there...although lately I've seen it less than $3000 on average (I've gotten quite a few email updates from CanonPriceWatch showing the camera as low as $2850 a couple times over the last few months.) Still, ~$3000 is a lot of money. That said, it has maintained a rough parity with the D800 price for quite a while, and the "advertised" prices are usually $3400 due to Canon's new MAP rules...you usually have to actually put it in your cart to see the true selling price.

I would give it another try. LensRentals has an excellent track record with shipping out quality gear, because they test everything upon return, so you should get a better copy. Make sure, if you are doing BIF, you configure the necessary AF custom functions to support continuous AF at all times, slow subject switching, AF drive vs. shutter activate priority, etc. to make sure you get consistent AF behavior. Try using one of the expansion modes as well, because the 5D III AF points are smaller than the 7D points, which makes it a lot harder to use just the single center point (which would be almost like trying to use the 7D's center spot AF, which is almost impossible for BIF.)

 

[Richard8971]

to have such consistent problems focusing indicates either operator error or a defective copy.

Well considering that honestly out of 1000+ shots I only got 3 or 4 (the rest were out of focus) I was happy with I would say that it is possible I got a bad copy. Canon had done a workshop and brought equipment to borrow so I got the 5D3 for the day. I stuck my 7D is my camera vest and slapped on my EF 70-300L.

I was shooting with 2 friends who had already owned the 5D3 for quite a while and I was shooting with al kinds of different settings. I was asking tons of questions about the camera and I was gladly listening to their advice. Center point, AF expansion, aperture priority, whatever. I wanted to give the camera an honest try.

And for the record I am not on a crusade to prove anything. $3400 is a ton of mone

True, $3400 is a lot of money. No question there...although lately I've seen it less than $3000 on average (I've gotten quite a few email updates from CanonPriceWatch showing the camera as low as $2850 a couple times over the last few months.) Still, ~$3000 is a lot of money. That said, it has maintained a rough parity with the D800 price for quite a while, and the "advertised" prices are usually $3400 due to Canon's new MAP rules...you usually have to actually put it in your cart to see the true selling price.

I would give it another try. LensRentals has an excellent track record with shipping out quality gear, because they test everything upon return, so you should get a better copy. Make sure, if you are doing BIF, you configure the necessary AF custom functions to support continuous AF at all times, slow subject switching, AF drive vs. shutter activate priority, etc. to make sure you get consistent AF behavior. Try using one of the expansion modes as well, because the 5D III AF points are smaller than the 7D points, which makes it a lot harder to use just the single center point (which would be almost like trying to use the 7D's center spot AF, which is almost impossible for BIF.)

I had written more to my post. CR for some reason slows down and locks up when I try and type a reply. I can only get a few sentences before I have to post and go back and modify so I can finish what I was typing.

And I don't just use "spot AF" for BIF. I usually use just the center point or mainly the very center ones. (like center AF expansion) I don't use "full auto AF" so that the camera just randomly picks what it thinks I want. I put the bird in the center and that way I know I have the best chance of it locking on to it and nothing else.

I know I can get the 5D3 cheaper than $3400 but I would only shell out that kind of money through B&H or Adorama, but I have only seen it a couple of hundred cheaper.

D

 

[bleephotography]

to have such consistent problems focusing indicates either operator error or a defective copy.

Well considering that honestly out of 1000+ shots I only got 3 or 4 (the rest were out of focus) I was happy with I would say that it is possible I got a bad copy. Canon had done a workshop and brought equipment to borrow so I got the 5D3 for the day. I stuck my 7D is my camera vest and slapped on my EF 70-300L.

I was shooting with 2 friends who had already owned the 5D3 for quite a while and I was shooting with al kinds of different settings. I was asking tons of questions about the camera and I was gladly listening to their advice. Center point, AF expansion, aperture priority, whatever. I wanted to give the camera an honest try.

And for the record I am not on a crusade to prove anything. $3400 is a ton of mone

True, $3400 is a lot of money. No question there...although lately I've seen it less than $3000 on average (I've gotten quite a few email updates from CanonPriceWatch showing the camera as low as $2850 a couple times over the last few months.) Still, ~$3000 is a lot of money. That said, it has maintained a rough parity with the D800 price for quite a while, and the "advertised" prices are usually $3400 due to Canon's new MAP rules...you usually have to actually put it in your cart to see the true selling price.

I would give it another try. LensRentals has an excellent track record with shipping out quality gear, because they test everything upon return, so you should get a better copy. Make sure, if you are doing BIF, you configure the necessary AF custom functions to support continuous AF at all times, slow subject switching, AF drive vs. shutter activate priority, etc. to make sure you get consistent AF behavior. Try using one of the expansion modes as well, because the 5D III AF points are smaller than the 7D points, which makes it a lot harder to use just the single center point (which would be almost like trying to use the 7D's center spot AF, which is almost impossible for BIF.)

I had written more to my post. CR for some reason slows down and locks up when I try and type a reply. I can only get a few sentences before I have to post and go back and modify so I can finish what I was typing.

And I don't just use "spot AF" for BIF. I usually use just the center point or mainly the very center ones. (like center AF expansion) I don't use "full auto AF" so that the camera just randomly picks what it thinks I want. I put the bird in the center and that way I know I have the best chance of it locking on to it and nothing else.

I know I can get the 5D3 cheaper than $3400 but I would only shell out that kind of money through B&H or Adorama, but I have only seen it a couple of hundred cheaper.

D

Amazon is also a highly reputable seller and their return policy is one of the best of any retailers, photographic equipment or non-. Currently, they have the 5DIII selling for $2899 although it has been fluctuating this holiday season as low as $2699 (w/ a free SD card, bag and genuine LP-E6), which is what I picked mine up for before they implemented sales tax requirements. I say give it another shot, what do you have to lose (besides thousands of dollars)? You can always return it for a full refund and Amazon will even pay for return shipping if it's defective.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007FGYZFI/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[jrista]

to have such consistent problems focusing indicates either operator error or a defective copy.

Well considering that honestly out of 1000+ shots I only got 3 or 4 (the rest were out of focus) I was happy with I would say that it is possible I got a bad copy. Canon had done a workshop and brought equipment to borrow so I got the 5D3 for the day. I stuck my 7D is my camera vest and slapped on my EF 70-300L.

I was shooting with 2 friends who had already owned the 5D3 for quite a while and I was shooting with al kinds of different settings. I was asking tons of questions about the camera and I was gladly listening to their advice. Center point, AF expansion, aperture priority, whatever. I wanted to give the camera an honest try.

And for the record I am not on a crusade to prove anything. $3400 is a ton of mone

True, $3400 is a lot of money. No question there...although lately I've seen it less than $3000 on average (I've gotten quite a few email updates from CanonPriceWatch showing the camera as low as $2850 a couple times over the last few months.) Still, ~$3000 is a lot of money. That said, it has maintained a rough parity with the D800 price for quite a while, and the "advertised" prices are usually $3400 due to Canon's new MAP rules...you usually have to actually put it in your cart to see the true selling price.

I would give it another try. LensRentals has an excellent track record with shipping out quality gear, because they test everything upon return, so you should get a better copy. Make sure, if you are doing BIF, you configure the necessary AF custom functions to support continuous AF at all times, slow subject switching, AF drive vs. shutter activate priority, etc. to make sure you get consistent AF behavior. Try using one of the expansion modes as well, because the 5D III AF points are smaller than the 7D points, which makes it a lot harder to use just the single center point (which would be almost like trying to use the 7D's center spot AF, which is almost impossible for BIF.)

And I don't just use "spot AF" for BIF. I usually use just the center point or mainly the very center ones. (like center AF expansion) I don't use "full auto AF" so that the camera just randomly picks what it thinks I want. I put the bird in the center and that way I know I have the best chance of it locking on to it and nothing else.

Oh, sure. I wasn't saying you used spot AF. I was saying that using a single center point on the 5D III is almost like using center spot AF on the 7D, as the 5D III's AF points, being part of a very dense reticular grid, are a little smaller. Using 4 or 8 point expansion makes 5D III center point AF VERY good.

 

[Dylan777]

I actually made the same moves as you John, and for the same reasons. However, after using my 6D for only a few months I soon realized that I sorely missed the more advanced AF system of the 5DIII and have since sold the 6D and bought a 5DIII...again. Although the 6D is truly a superb FF DSLR, I found myself (as an amateur) unable to get a sufficient keeper rate using fast glass and the outer AF points, therefore I would end up using only the center AF point and cropping in because focus-and-recompose at < f/1.4 is not especially effective. Although I do miss the aforementioned features of the 6D, including the -3EV center point, built-in Wi-Fi and that all of the buttons are located on the right side for easy, one-handed access, the 5DIII is in fact a better camera and is therefore priced accordingly.

Overall, I did lose a couple hundred bucks by selling the 5DIII to pick up a 6D, and then selling the 6D to pick up a 5DIII, so if I can give any suggestions from my experience it would be to first and foremost go with the one you can afford and if that is either of them, then go with the 5DIII. The only reason I can see someone downgrading from a 5DIII to a 6D is for cost reasons (as is the case with the OP and me), whereas many 6D users perceive the 5DIII as the next step in the upgrade path due to the more professional features (AF system, dual cards, robust body, etc.), hence the cost difference. Either way, both are excellent bodies and offer some noteworthy features over one another, but if both cameras were priced the same I'd be willing to bet that nearly all of those saying that the 6D is a better camera would end up purchasing the 5DIII or eventually exchanging for it because overall, it is a better camera (although from a $/performance standpoint the 6D clearly wins). Just thought I'd share my experiences ;D

What's the light condition looks like at -3EV? Who photograph at -3EV?

6D might have the advantage with -3EV(on paper speaking), however, will it focus accurate under that light condition or even under -2EV?

To me, having 41 cross-type AF points and 5 dual diagonal AF points are MUST better than 1 AF point camera.

OP will miss his 5D III when he needs to shoot something like this: http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/t302HPVC/1/6306064

Interestingly, one of my primary uses for that is when using a heavy ND filter (10 stop). Traditional focusing is almost impossible (viewfinder is dark and even live view only shows so much). When I used a 5DII I often would have to mount the ND filter after focusing, running the risk of slightly affecting focus. The 6D can focus just fine with my ND filter attached.

My 5D III focus just fine with 10stop ND @ f9 TWI by Dustin Abbott

My 2cents: There is nothing that 6D can do that 5D III can't - except wifi + GPS feature. Same thing to 1D x, there is nothing 5D III can do that 1D X can't - except better.

I do look forward to be an owner of 1D someday : and I'm sure we all look forward to that day - to shoot with better and faster camera

Here are some photos taken with my 5D III at my house today. California time 9:30ish PM. All lights were off. The only light source was from single wood log, burning in the fireplace.

1. First photo - just to show you the lighting around the fireplace - almost no light. There is a Christmas tree on the right hand side of fireplace. The tree is about 5-6ft away from the fireplace. - NO PROBLEM FOCUS ON THE FIREPLACE GRILL/DOOR

2. Second photo - taken with 5D III @ 12800ISO - NO ISSUE FOCUS ON THE ORNAMENT

3. 3rd photo - taken with 5D III @ much slower shutter speed - NO ISSUE FOCUS ON THE ORNAMENT

Again, I don't understand WHY people complaining about 5D III can't focus in the dark.

 

[privatebydesign]

With regards those three images, the first is, if you honour iso in EV calculations (which is debatable but consistent) EV+3, this is well within the AF speces, in the order of 32 times more light than minimum, it also has a very strong bar of contrast through it, this image is no test of AF.

The second image is, obviously, underexposed, but is exposed at around EV+0.5, again, well within Canon's stated AF specs.

The third image is impressive, if it is 1.3 seconds as the EXIF indicates that makes that an exposure in the order of EV-3 that is half the light that the specs list, EV-2. It looks like an accurate representation of the scene, though again, there is some good contrast areas of the subject. But it is impressive.

 

[grahamclarkphoto]

So over the Thanksgiving weekend, I finally gathered the nerve to just let go of my 5D3 as I was offered a fair price for it. That, in conjunction with the deal for the 6D at $1400 pushed me into pulling the trigger on the swap out. Done and done.

Some things I'm struggling with, some not so much. Either way, I think the decision was the right one for me (for now).

Wondering if anyone else has given the same move some thought.

nice! I have both and since the 6D was released nearly one year ago, I've shot with the 6D consistently.

i've put on well over the rated 150,000 shutter actuations and it still performs as it should.

Graham

grahamclarkphoto.com

 

[Marsu42]

Again, I don't understand WHY people complaining about 5D III can't focus in the dark.

The difference between -3LV and -2LV isn't a big issue, it's a bit of marketing as the one advantage 6d>5d3 and my observation is people gladly take this to rationalize their 6d purchase when in all honesty the 5d3 is the better camera hands down. In a real world side-by-side comparison the 5d3 might even win in lower light because the center 6d point is non-cross for f2.8+ lenses, and dim light tends to make the camera miss more (my observation with my 100L/2.8 & 6d).

Both 5d3 & 6df will fail in complete darkness, and both will be much quicker using af assist ... for what I shoot probably -1LV would be enough, but +0.5LV (like 6d outer points or all of my 60d) is definitely not enough with a f2.8-f4 lens because it starts to fail in reasonably dim light.

i've put on well over the rated 150,000 shutter actuations and it still performs as it should.

It's only rated for 100k shutter but it's good to hear you're encountering no problems, that might mean that the lack of 1/8000s is really marketing and not shutter protection because the part is so cheap. But of course it's a lot of luck, and it also matters if you shoot at fast shutter speeds a lot as this tends to kill it faster afaik.

 

[Canon1]

The 5D3 is a great camera but not worth (at least to me) the $3400 price tag. After reading people's thoughts and reviews I was expecting a powerhouse of a camera, and it really wasn't. I just couldn't justify spending the money on it to upgrade. The 7D is a VERY fast camera and very hard to beat in that department. I shot BIF (birds, raptors exactly, in flight) with the 5D3 and got 10 times more blurry bird shots than I did with my 7D! (Yes I KNOW how to set up my camera for birds in flight, I am NOT new to this! Please don't waste your time telling me how I didn't know what I was doing... I always select the center point on AF and use AI Servo...) I was also using my own EF 70-300L on the 5D3. That lens is lighting fast on AF, so I know the fault wasn't with the lens.

Not trying to start a fight here but.... you definitely didn't have the 5DIII AF set up correctly for the type of shooting you were doing (or something else was going on). I have shot extensively with Rebels, 7D, 1DIV, 5DII and 5DIII for BIF... hands down the 5DIII is the best out of all of these regarding AF speed and accuracy. The 7D does have a very good AF system but once you get the setup right on the 5DIII it is nothing short of amazing.

Regarding the OP. Glad you sorted out your priorities. It sounds like you are looking for some justification for your decision from the forum and there are definitely a lot of people who think along similar lines. The 5DIII is a fully customizable workhorse and for many shooters it is certainly overkill. The cameras you are using are great and will not hold you back from making great images. Happy shooting.

Canon1, would you please share your setup for the 5DIII? I have been shooting with the 6D and I am not happy with it's AF, particularly it's slow focus lock time using a 70-300Lens. My 60D is much better.

So I intend to sell the 6D and buy a III. I shot a lot of birds and think I will be much happier.

Sure. This is what works for me:

Tracking sensitivity set to "-2": I use this setting most of the time. Once I acquire focus on a BIF this setting helps to keep it locked on despite whether the focus point moves off the bird for a moment or another bird passes between the desired subject (or a tree passes between as the bird flies by, etc...) This can slow down the initial acquisition s tiny bit but is un-noticable on ast primes. If using a slower AF lens like 100-400 then you can bump this setting to "-1"

Accel/decel tracking set to "+2": Many birds are erratic in flight, this helps keep lock on. (not as big a deal with slow subjects like geese but this really helps with fishing terns, etc...

Af Point autoswitching: I dont care about this setting. I don't use 61 pt AF Auto selection...

I also very frequently use 4 point AF Expansion. When shooting BIF that don't fill much of the frame it can be difficult to get the center point over the BIF to acquire intitial lock. Using 4 Point expansion really helps especially when shooting handheld and not from a gimball head.

Should go without saying that camera is also in AI Servo and high speed burst and all lenses calibrated with focal pro....

Hope this info helps.

Hi Canon1,
Looks like you and I have same setting here

AI servo, case# 2, 4-8points expansion.

Keeper rate is high, as you can see here: http://albums.phanfare.com/isolated/t302HPVC/1/6306064

Out of 61 AF points, I only activate 41 cross type AF points and 5 dual cross type AF points on both of my 5D III.

I don't use case #2. I manually override the settings. Case 2 is "-1,0,0". I use "-2,+2". None of the preset cases quite nail it.

 

[RLPhoto]

The 5th isn't worth 3499$. More like 2499$.