The World's Largest Ultrahigh-Sensitivity CMOS Image Sensor

[Talys]

I wonder what a piece of glass for that thing costs

 

[photonius]

digital Kirlian photography anyone

 

[BeenThere]

If this was built under contract for some industrial or government user, then Canon probably earned a profit on the endeavor. If it was built using R&D funds, then there was probably (IMO) a better place to spend the money. But now they have some bragging rights for whatever that is worth. Obviously a very small market for this sensor.

 

[HarryFilm]

This is so going into HarryFilm’s new Medium format rig

--

Well now that you said it, I CAN MOST DEFINITELY SUGGEST TO YOU that indeed Canon is looking how they would layout multiple Medium format sensors of DCI 8k (8192 x 4380 pixels) of 56mm x 42mm size. Here is the below graphic used for suggested layout of the chips on 300mm silicon wafers. The aspect ratio difference of 1.89 imaging photosite vs the actual 4:3 sensor aspect ratio is PROBABLY due to the in-between-lines-of-photosites being using for DPAF or specialty edge detection or OTHER colour-filters photosites (i.e. extra Yellow channel?)

Cost of course is about $3500 to $4000 US per chip BUT they could get it down to $2500 US with a bit of extra quality control technology applied to the manufacturing process!

In case you're wondering, my sources say that the new Canon MF sensor's physical size is indeed 56mm x 42mm BUT that the imaging photosite aspect ratio of 8192 by 4380 is due to photosites used by a DPAF-like mechanism and/or a POSSIBLE extra colour channel being added for better colours AND/OR used for better low-light performance (i.e. NO colour filter on photosite for PURE luminance information capture!)

I just don't know all the specifics yet!

 

[3kramd5]

But wait, this are lens mirrors not a camera mirror (which is what matters).

My post was tongue in cheek, but regardless the way JWST selects focus is unlike a mirrorless camera in that pointing is achieved by a separate unit than those used for imaging. It’s more like a rangefinder.

Here is the below graphic used for suggested layout of the chips on 300mm silicon wafers. The aspect ratio difference of 1.89 imaging photosite vs the actual 4:3 sensor aspect ratio is PROBABLY due to the in-between-lines-of-photosites being using for DPAF or specialty edge detection or OTHER colour-filters photosites (i.e. extra Yellow channel?)

In between lines used for DPAF? Yah no.

The best way to explain weirdness in that graphic is that the guy who fired up google slides to lay it out isn’t very detail oriented. Couldn’t even bother to spell check!

 

[slclick]

It makes the Rebel look Presidential.

 

[Ozarker]

Guys, this was announced in 2010.

https://global.canon/en/news/2010/aug31e.html

 

[scyrene]

It's not nearly mirrorless, it hat 18 mirrors. But wait, this are lens mirrors not a camera mirror (which is what matters). It's great for all, it has a relatively compact camera. And for those who need it for fu**ing, where size matters, it's specially great ;D

an what's the best, it's really exclusive, not every common sheikh can afford one. This needs a nice oil gusher running quite a while

This raises the question, if you mount a mirror lens on a mirorless camera, does it cease to be mirrorless? *Robot brain explodes*

 

[Don Haines]

It's not nearly mirrorless, it hat 18 mirrors. But wait, this are lens mirrors not a camera mirror (which is what matters). It's great for all, it has a relatively compact camera. And for those who need it for fu**ing, where size matters, it's specially great ;D

an what's the best, it's really exclusive, not every common sheikh can afford one. This needs a nice oil gusher running quite a while

This raises the question, if you mount a mirror lens on a mirorless camera, does it cease to be mirrorless? *Robot brain explodes*

A good question to reflect on.....

 

[Don Haines]

If this was built under contract for some industrial or government user, then Canon probably earned a profit on the endeavor. If it was built using R&D funds, then there was probably (IMO) a better place to spend the money. But now they have some bragging rights for whatever that is worth. Obviously a very small market for this sensor.

definitely a small market for large sensors, but when you are sending things into orbit you expect astronomical prices

 

[MrToes]

This is old news! DP review had an article about it eight years ago.
https://www.dpreview.com/articles/7964414898/canonlargestsensor

 

[kaihp]

Well now that you said it, I CAN MOST DEFINITELY SUGGEST TO YOU that indeed Canon is looking how they would layout multiple Medium format sensors of DCI 8k (8192 x 4380 pixels) of 56mm x 42mm size. Here is the below graphic used for suggested layout of the chips on 300mm silicon wafers. The aspect ratio difference of 1.89 imaging photosite vs the actual 4:3 sensor aspect ratio is PROBABLY due to the in-between-lines-of-photosites being using for DPAF or specialty edge detection or OTHER colour-filters photosites (i.e. extra Yellow channel?)

Excuse me, but that's not how chips are (normally) placed on a wafer. They are placed in a strict Manhattan corner-to-corner pattern, so you can run a (diamond) saw through on both the horizontal and vertical.

If there is enough economic incentive (and at this size of dies, there probably is), you could make a setup as shown in the graphic. It would 'just' require a very different handling of the wafer at the dicing (sawing) and picking stage.
I've just never seen a setup like this in the real world.

 

[3kramd5]

Well now that you said it, I CAN MOST DEFINITELY SUGGEST TO YOU that indeed Canon is looking how they would layout multiple Medium format sensors of DCI 8k (8192 x 4380 pixels) of 56mm x 42mm size. Here is the below graphic used for suggested layout of the chips on 300mm silicon wafers. The aspect ratio difference of 1.89 imaging photosite vs the actual 4:3 sensor aspect ratio is PROBABLY due to the in-between-lines-of-photosites being using for DPAF or specialty edge detection or OTHER colour-filters photosites (i.e. extra Yellow channel?)

Excuse me, but that's not how chips are (normally) placed on a wafer. They are placed in a strict Manhattan corner-to-corner pattern, so you can run a (diamond) saw through on both the horizontal and vertical.

If there is enough economic incentive (and at this size of dies, there probably is), you could make a setup as shown in the graphic. It would 'just' require a very different handling of the wafer at the dicing (sawing) and picking stage.
I've just never seen a setup like this in the real world.

Here’s the thing:
Harry Film either has people trolling him, or, more likely he invents his sources and the reference material. His claims are typically outlandish and rife with technical errors, but it’s all in good fun.

 

[Talys]

definitely a small market for large sensors, but when you are sending things into orbit you expect astronomical prices

Good one ;D

 

[scyrene]

it’s all in good fun.

That's a very charitable interpretation.

 

[Diko]

Really?!? I wonder where were marketing departments of Canon USA and Japan sleeping.

Come on this is like eight years old. I was already on board even though my registration here is one year later.

The new big boss promised innovations. He delivered some like Canon 5D4's new sensor tech which compared to the previous ones was tremendously better. Still not the best but better.

The question however remains: why now? It's like reminding to everyone now we were doing some R&D back then and that's what we got "back then". Either they are coming out next month with something tremendously new when awesome or this is the most retarded strategy marketing move I've ever seen.

 

[HarryFilm]

Well now that you said it, I CAN MOST DEFINITELY SUGGEST TO YOU that indeed Canon is looking how they would layout multiple Medium format sensors of DCI 8k (8192 x 4380 pixels) of 56mm x 42mm size. Here is the below graphic used for suggested layout of the chips on 300mm silicon wafers. The aspect ratio difference of 1.89 imaging photosite vs the actual 4:3 sensor aspect ratio is PROBABLY due to the in-between-lines-of-photosites being using for DPAF or specialty edge detection or OTHER colour-filters photosites (i.e. extra Yellow channel?)

Excuse me, but that's not how chips are (normally) placed on a wafer. They are placed in a strict Manhattan corner-to-corner pattern, so you can run a (diamond) saw through on both the horizontal and vertical.

If there is enough economic incentive (and at this size of dies, there probably is), you could make a setup as shown in the graphic. It would 'just' require a very different handling of the wafer at the dicing (sawing) and picking stage.
I've just never seen a setup like this in the real world.

---

Sony and Philips do non-square layouts on larger sensors and other DSP circuits... I HAVE SEEN THAT in the Netherlands when I got to take a tour of a DSP chip making facility. I am assuming the diamond-tip sawing stations can cut linear strips so long at least one axis is straight.

 

[HarryFilm]

Well now that you said it, I CAN MOST DEFINITELY SUGGEST TO YOU that indeed Canon is looking how they would layout multiple Medium format sensors of DCI 8k (8192 x 4380 pixels) of 56mm x 42mm size. Here is the below graphic used for suggested layout of the chips on 300mm silicon wafers. The aspect ratio difference of 1.89 imaging photosite vs the actual 4:3 sensor aspect ratio is PROBABLY due to the in-between-lines-of-photosites being using for DPAF or specialty edge detection or OTHER colour-filters photosites (i.e. extra Yellow channel?)

Excuse me, but that's not how chips are (normally) placed on a wafer. They are placed in a strict Manhattan corner-to-corner pattern, so you can run a (diamond) saw through on both the horizontal and vertical.

If there is enough economic incentive (and at this size of dies, there probably is), you could make a setup as shown in the graphic. It would 'just' require a very different handling of the wafer at the dicing (sawing) and picking stage.
I've just never seen a setup like this in the real world.

Here’s the thing:
Harry Film either has people trolling him, or, more likely he invents his sources and the reference material. His claims are typically outlandish and rife with technical errors, but it’s all in good fun.

---

I should note everyone that the chip layout is from my Euro-sources which THEY MADE -- their English is only decent-enough or simply outright terrible. I would expect that and even I didn't notice the mistakes pointed out by an earlier forum poster.

Anyways.... NO! I DO NOT make up my sources ....BUT.... they are -S-O-U-R-C-E-S- which means PLURAL! That also means the information is disparate and unconfirmed so I personally cannot vouch for their accuracy....BUT....very much like detective work, when you start seeing multiple "witnesses" tell the same story, it means you need to take a closer look at what is being discussed to find some commonalities.
(i.e. what "sources" are MY SOURCES using?) Reporting is all about fact-finding and correlation....AND...while correlation does not necessarily specify causation, you ALSO cannot ignore many correlations either!

Sooooo.........All I can say with reasonable confidence, is that Canon IS TESTING a medium format around 50 megapixel, high frame rate (20 fps to 25 fps burst rate) stills camera with DCI 4K full-sensor sampled 4:2:2 video! I expect an official announcement sometime in February to April 2019.

I can ALSO STATE with reasonable confidence that an update or replacement for the Canon XC-15 camera is PROBABLY headed for a Photokina 2018 announcement. It is probable that it will be a one-inch sensor and will have 10-bit 4:2:2 interframe 60 fps encoded video AND will have an interchangeable lens system.

And finally, a short-flange APS-C sensor mirrorless that looks like an Canon M5 may also be announced either at Photokina or soon after.

THOSE are what MANY of MY SOURCES are saying!

Again, WE SHALL SEE WHAT HAPPENS !!!

 

[Don Haines]

Here’s the thing:
Harry Film either has people trolling him, or, more likely he invents his sources and the reference material. His claims are typically outlandish and rife with technical errors, but it’s all in good fun.

The trick is, to keep making claim after claim after claim, and eventually you will get one right, and then you can claim that you knew.....

For instance:
I know that the next camera Canon releases will be mirrorless.
I know that the next camera Canon releases will be a powershot.
I know that the next camera Canon releases will be the 7D3
I know that the next camera Canon releases will be an upgrade of the 5DS
I know that the next camera Canon releases will be a FF DSLR
I know that the next camera Canon releases will be a crop DSLR

and, in the insanely unlikely scenario, I know that the next camera Canon releases will be an APS-H DSLR with the 200Mpixel sensor.


So.... next one anounced, remember, I predicted it!

 

[3kramd5]

Well now that you said it, I CAN MOST DEFINITELY SUGGEST TO YOU that indeed Canon is looking how they would layout multiple Medium format sensors of DCI 8k (8192 x 4380 pixels) of 56mm x 42mm size. Here is the below graphic used for suggested layout of the chips on 300mm silicon wafers. The aspect ratio difference of 1.89 imaging photosite vs the actual 4:3 sensor aspect ratio is PROBABLY due to the in-between-lines-of-photosites being using for DPAF or specialty edge detection or OTHER colour-filters photosites (i.e. extra Yellow channel?)

Excuse me, but that's not how chips are (normally) placed on a wafer. They are placed in a strict Manhattan corner-to-corner pattern, so you can run a (diamond) saw through on both the horizontal and vertical.

If there is enough economic incentive (and at this size of dies, there probably is), you could make a setup as shown in the graphic. It would 'just' require a very different handling of the wafer at the dicing (sawing) and picking stage.
I've just never seen a setup like this in the real world.

Here’s the thing:
Harry Film either has people trolling him, or, more likely he invents his sources and the reference material. His claims are typically outlandish and rife with technical errors, but it’s all in good fun.

---

I should note everyone that the chip layout is from my Euro-sources which THEY MADE -- their English is only decent-enough or simply outright terrible. I would expect that and even I didn't notice the mistakes pointed out by an earlier forum poster.

Anyways.... NO! I DO NOT make up my sources ....BUT.... they are -S-O-U-R-C-E-S- which means PLURAL! That also means the information is disparate and unconfirmed so I personally cannot vouch for their accuracy....BUT....very much like detective work, when you start seeing multiple "witnesses" tell the same story, it means you need to take a closer look at what is being discussed to find some commonalities.
(i.e. what "sources" are MY SOURCES using?) Reporting is all about fact-finding and correlation....AND...while correlation does not necessarily specify causation, you ALSO cannot ignore many correlations either!

Sooooo.........All I can say with reasonable confidence, is that Canon IS TESTING a medium format around 50 megapixel, high frame rate (20 fps to 25 fps burst rate) stills camera with DCI 4K full-sensor sampled 4:2:2 video! I expect an official announcement sometime in February to April 2019.

I can ALSO STATE with reasonable confidence that an update or replacement for the Canon XC-15 camera is PROBABLY headed for a Photokina 2018 announcement. It is probable that it will be a one-inch sensor and will have 10-bit 4:2:2 interframe 60 fps encoded video AND will have an interchangeable lens system.

And finally, a short-flange APS-C sensor mirrorless that looks like an Canon M5 may also be announced either at Photokina or soon after.

THOSE are what MANY of MY SOURCES are saying!

Again, WE SHALL SEE WHAT HAPPENS !!!

Perhaps you have real sources, and perhaps English isn’t their strong suit. However you represent them as engineers, and one trait engineers typically share is attention to detail. One trait Europeans typically share is fluency in multiple languages. A European engineer misspelling “format” is highly unlikely. Format in German is format. Format in Dutch is formaat. Format in French is format. Format in Italian is formato. Format in Croatian is format. Format in Spanish is formato. Format in Czech is formát. Format in Swedish is formatera. It’s never fromat. You’ll find that aspect is similarly never apsect.

If you really have someone sending you this stuff, take it with a mountain of salt; you’re probably being trolled.