There is an APS-C RF mount camera coming [CR3]

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
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I'm not sure this continuum will continue to exist.

The EOS 850D is priced $750
The EOS RP is priced $900
The EOS 90D is priced at $1,200
The EOS R is priced at $1,800

So the existence of the continuum depends on lenses, e.g. the customer saving on something like the trio of kit lenses (10-18mm, 18-55mm, 55-250mm). I doubt Canon can make a 10-~20mm lens that would be both <$500 and give sufficiently good image quality for anyone with a FF camera to want to keep it. Actually, if the 18-55mm did a reasonable job on FF, the customer could dump the 10-18mm, so maybe Canon can pull off a crop RF rebel with a couple of lenses.
An 18-55 FF lens would be quite large and VERY expensive if any good.
 

David - Sydney

EOS RP
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Dec 7, 2014
453
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There is an EF to Fuji XF Adaptor that works well. Agreed no such product for RF to Fuji XF. If you don't know what Fuji does, take a look at the X-T4 ;). You might be surprised.
Given my investment into the R5/RF mount this year (including housing), I think that my future purchases will be limited for the foreseeable time :)
 

slclick

Pinhole
Dec 17, 2013
4,223
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I would think most posters here have a sizable cache of Canon glass, steering them into another system such as Fuji for a supposed marginal gain is not a position I'd like to be in myself. All that selling and buying of lenses, what a gamble and pain. With Canon's close to stellar reputation for lenses, something Fuji has only garnered for one or two, I think not. Now, supplementing your Canon FF gear with a crop Fuji for different needs? Sure, have at it.
 
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wyotex43n

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 24, 2016
51
36
I was unable to quickly find a link/reference, but it is somewhere in specs/manual.
In H+ mode (fastest mechanical shutter mode) RAW bit depth is 13 bit.
If you lower mechanical shooting mode to H, you get the usual 14 bit depth. As far as I remember H is approx. 6-8 fps depending on other settings.

I'll update this comment if I can find the official overview of the shooting modes (But maybe others are faster than me?).

Btw, the R6 does not have this restriction. With the lower pixel count of R6, it is 14 bit all the way with mechanical shutter.

UPDATE. Here it is. Actually it is 6fps with pure mechanical shutter and 8 fps with electronic 1st curtain:

View attachment 193663
Thanks, That clears thing up, but now I may have more questions. May take me a while to word the question.

All the more reason to have a high megapixel crop camera with high frame rate.
 

Bert63

What’s in da box?
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Dec 3, 2017
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I see Canon beginning their replacement of the Rebel line - it has to happen eventually and I see Canon wanting it done sooner than later.

A 7D2 replacement would have to be really cheap to be an alternative to the R6, and if loaded with the options that most (I) would want it would be unlikely. The specs people want would put it too close or beyond the R6 in price and I just don’t see it.

My EOS-R is easily as good as my 5D4 for shooting perched birds and slow moving wildlife, and if you learn how to manage it the slow burst rate can be prompted to capture all but the fastest BIF shooting. It isn’t easy and faster is better (thus my R5 purchase) but the IQ out of the R is top-notch.

For me, there is no benefit of shooting a APS-C rather than a FF for wildlife these days aside from the hope that it might come in a little cheaper. Like I said in another post, if I throw my 100-400L and my 1.4X on my R5 and put it into crop mode then I’m shooting 1000mm equivalent @ f8.

It will be interesting to see what kind of APS-C mirrorless Canon comes out with - whether it’ll be a beginning of the end for the current Rebel line (likely) or a 7D2 replacement (not as likely IMO).

Either way, regardless of the specs, after shooting FF since 2016 and now having the R5, I can’t imagine a product that would turn my head unless it was super cheap and I don’t see a 7D2-like camera being cheap at all.
 

Bert63

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Dec 3, 2017
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Because the use-case for an R6 or R5 is completely different from the 7Dii (or R7)? Even cropped the R5 is only giving you 17MP. Nature/sports photographers need speed & reach. The R6/R5 have speed, but not the reach, when you're cropping down. If the R7 ends up being 32MP or whatever....that's a homerun. I'd buy one the day it drops, or mug someone that got one before they sold out.
At what price? Which specs do you want?
 

Bert63

What’s in da box?
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Dec 3, 2017
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Assuming that the 5dsr actually can get the picture. The 7D2 has twice the FPS of the 5Ds and 5Dsr.
I shoot pretty much nothing but wildlife and my keeper rate went up drastically when I switched to the 5D4 from the 7D2.

The 7D2 was a decent camera. I like mine although it mostly sits on the shelf these days. I found the high framerate useful but the number of keepers I get out of the 5D4 (and later the EOS-R and R5) is easily twice the number I got from my 7D2.

The 7D2 is lauded and it was a good camera but it isn’t the holy grail it seems to have grown into over time. The autofocus often can’t keep up with the FPS, and it’s low light performance is lacking for someone who shoots in the Pacific Northwest. Hitting the bottom of the buffer is common and the write time to clear it is far too long.

Never mind that the 20MP forces your composition to be on point if you hope to crop in any meaningful way.

The 1.6 crop factor of the APS-C and added ‘reach’ realized from it are not worth the trade off you can get from a good full frame IMO.

This new mirrorless R7 or whatever will have to be carefully spec’d to not to approach or outprice the R6 otherwise I don’t see the point. If they scrimp on features to keep the price competitive, again, I don’t see the point.

Very interesting to see what comes out of this.
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
252
I don't get it. The RP is a grand, and by that point next year, achievable for less. If you go APSC, what's the point of RF glass? Why would someone drop (let's say) 600 bucks on an APSC body that shoots faster than an RP, but then have to shell out for the expensive RF glass? What am I missing?
This body will not be 600 bucks. If it does what the 7D II crowd is wanting, the tag will be closer to $2500. The 17 MP crop on the R5 is as sharp as a 7DII, thanks to the new AAF, and the R5 outperforms the 7D II in every other way. These guys are looking for 90D pixel density with all the bells and whistles. I suspect the R5s will be released first and it will have essentially the same pixel density, so then the argument will be down to price and maybe a few FPS difference. The crop frame makes little sense to me, but the 7D II crowd is very loud and they do buy big whites, so maybe Canon figures the lens sales will make it worthwhile.
 

Stig Nygaard

7DII & G5XII
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Jul 10, 2013
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A 7D2 replacement would have to be really cheap to be an alternative to the R6, and if loaded with the options that most (I) would want it would be unlikely. The specs people want would put it too close or beyond the R6 in price and I just don’t see it.
Size/weight/price (size/weight of the whole system, not so much the camera ifself).
If the R6 was a crop-camera I would have bought it. Also at same price, although that is pretty much as much as I'm ready to pay for a camera.
 
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Joules

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Jul 16, 2017
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Assuming that the 5dsr actually can get the picture. The 7D2 has twice the FPS of the 5Ds and 5Dsr.
Well, the high res R (R5 s / R3) will have a sped up crop mode, I suspect. Just like in the M6 II, which does 14 FPS 32.5 MP mechanical, and also 30 FPS 18 MP electronic in crop mode. I am actually a little sad that the R5 didn't get that, since especially the pre-shutter-press capture seems like something I'd like if I were to invest that much into a body.

Depending on just how much Canon improves the next Iteration of sensors over the already great advancement found in the R5, the high res R may actually be a superset of a potential R7. But, of course that will come with a price, and for purely mechanical shooting, I believe the R7 will maintain an advantage.

Just, with the capabilities of mirrorless, it's not going to be the same situation as the 7D II vs 5Ds.
 

SteveC

R5
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Sep 3, 2019
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I see Canon beginning their replacement of the Rebel line - it has to happen eventually and I see Canon wanting it done sooner than later.
I am assuming that by "Rebel" you mean the XXXXD and XXXD lines. The 7D wouldn't be a Rebel, certainly not that kind of Rebel, so this camera (that most are assuming is the path into mirrorless for the 7D owners) has nothing to do with the Rebel line.

The real replacement for the Rebels is the M series. Think about it; the typical Rebel customer won't care about the small selection of lenses; they probably bought only one kit lens (18-55) anyway...or maybe both of the kit lenses (adding the 70-300) to give them more focal length options.

That's what I did. The only thing odd about me as a Rebel customer was that I also picked up the 100 mm (no L) macro, to take pictures of coins. (And I still use that lens and a three-digit Rebel for that, 24 MP being fantastic for that job.) And of course I moved up in the world to an M6-II and an R5. But I started out as a typical Rebel customer and believe me it would have made no difference to me back then if it had been an M series. In fact, I probably would have preferred it, since the flapping mirror thing always struck me as a kludge.
 
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Kane Clements

EOS M50
Dec 6, 2019
47
33
Given my investment into the R5/RF mount this year (including housing), I think that my future purchases will be limited for the foreseeable time :)
OK fair point. Doing the full Fuji X-T4 plus four lenses made my bank balance look pretty anaemic. Though two were used as new. Are you planning to eat before January
 

Bert63

What’s in da box?
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Dec 3, 2017
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I am assuming that by "Rebel" you mean the XXXXD and XXXD lines. The 7D wouldn't be a Rebel, certainly not that kind of Rebel, so this camera (that most are assuming is the path into mirrorless for the 7D owners) has nothing to do with the Rebel line.

The real replacement for the Rebels is the M series. Think about it; the typical Rebel customer won't care about the small selection of lenses; they probably bought only one kit lens (18-55) anyway...or maybe both of the kit lenses (adding the 70-300) to give them more focal length options.

That's what I did. The only thing odd about me as a Rebel customer was that I also picked up the 100 mm (no L) macro, to take pictures of coins. (And I still use that lens and a three-digit Rebel for that, 24 MP being fantastic for that job.) And of course I moved up in the world to an M6-II and an R5. But I started out as a typical Rebel customer and believe me it would have made no difference to me back then if it had been an M series. In fact, I probably would have preferred it, since the flapping mirror thing always struck me as a kludge.
Good post. As usual.
 
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Bert63

What’s in da box?
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Dec 3, 2017
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Size/weight/price (size/weight of the whole system, not so much the camera ifself).
If the R6 was a crop-camera I would have bought it. Also at same price, although that is pretty much as much as I'm ready to pay for a camera.
1 - checked your Flickr and you've got some really nice shots over there. :)

2 - why would you not choose a FF? What is it you like about the crop bodies?

3 - I've been carrying my wildlife setup so long that weight isn't even an issue. The R5/EOS-R is as small a camera I would ever want to hold and I've added grips to both for better feel.
 
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reef58

EOS RP
Apr 16, 2016
278
202
Reread my post. I said R5s. It will likely be in the 80 MP range, so essentially the same as the 90D/M6 II. The current R5 is 17 MP in crop, but due to the better AAF, it competes well with the 7D II.
Fuji FX glass is designed for the X series. The 32 MB Canon sensor packs in a lot of pixels and the need for high resolving power lenses to cope on for example the M6 II and the 90D is well documented. Christoper Frost Photography on YouTube (great channel if you haven't seen it he mostly reviews lenses and been at it for ten years) has a video dealing with the issue in relation to the M6 Mk II. Worth a look.

No camera is perfect and each brand has their foibles. I'd invite you, in no more than a spirit of curiosity, to take a look at what Fuji has achieved with their crop sensor. DP review of the X-T4 and X-S10 give balanced roundups on YouTube and their site.

You might be surprised. :)
I wouldn't be surprised. You assume I am unfamiliar with Fuji, I am not. I just don't want one. They as are most other brands are fully capable in their own way. If I were to buy a Fuji it would be the Medium Format not the XT. I have for instance a 500f4 I can use with a Canon crop body but not a fuji, so why would you suggest I buy a Fuji? I am just showing the point buying a Fuji because you like them is not for everyone. If I had not lenses or my main camera a 1dx3 then maybe I would consider a Fuji XT, but more likely I would be looking at the Sony offering possibly Nikon.
 

reef58

EOS RP
Apr 16, 2016
278
202
Reread my post. I said R5s. It will likely be in the 80 MP range, so essentially the same as the 90D/M6 II. The current R5 is 17 MP in crop, but due to the better AAF, it competes well with the 7D II.
1) Fair enough if a full frame is released with the same pixel density as the R7 then I will certainly lean that way. I don't need 20fps, but would like 10. I find 20fps on the 1dx3 in ES mode to make the culling process too time consuming.

2) I am not comparing the new R5 to the old as dirt 7d2. I would suspect the R7 would get the sensor upgrades as the other modern Canon offerings. A fair comparison is the 7d2 vs the 5d3. Which one I would chose between those would depend on the circumstances.
 

GMCPhotographics

EOS 5D Mark IV
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Indeed. There's this wide perception that the thing we call "full frame" is "normal." It could have been anything.

I spent years doing nothing but APS-C--to me, it was normal, and all the talk about that 35mm lens being like a 56 mm on an APS-C was meaningless. To me, that 35 mm lens would be like a 22 mm lens if someone put it on a full frame, because to me what a 35 mm lens does on an APS-C is normal--i.e., what I am used to. (This is still true for me even though I've now dipped my toes into full frame. My first time with a full frame I was saying things like "Dang, this damn lens won't zoom in like it should!")
Yep!
In the movie / fiilm industry there's a lot of talk about the magic reportage look of a 24mm lens. Put that focal length through the crop equivelent that's widely used...you end up with roughly as 35mm angle of view. So that "classic movie look" is in fact Cartier Bresson's favorite full frame focal length. Go figure! Nothing new, nothing special there! Which is why my three main wedding photography lenses are a 35mm f1.4 standard lens, an 85 f1.2 tele and a 16-35mm f2.8 Wide. Gimme thouse three lenses on three fullf rame bodies and I can pretty much cover 99% of the shots I'll need. Throw in a few special fisheye and longer tele shots and that's my bag.
 
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Maru

EOS 90D
Feb 9, 2019
103
25
everyone needs 90d feature + mirrorless together on aps-c mirrorless within $1k-$1.5k... its not happening as a> they wouldn't like to go bankrupt b> they wouldn't like to kill R/RP and half of R6 market :D:ROFLMAO:
 
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Kane Clements

EOS M50
Dec 6, 2019
47
33
I wouldn't be surprised. You assume I am unfamiliar with Fuji, I am not. I just don't want one. They as are most other brands are fully capable in their own way. If I were to buy a Fuji it would be the Medium Format not the XT. I have for instance a 500f4 I can use with a Canon crop body but not a fuji, so why would you suggest I buy a Fuji? I am just showing the point buying a Fuji because you like them is not for everyone. If I had not lenses or my main camera a 1dx3 then maybe I would consider a Fuji XT, but more likely I would be looking at the Sony offering possibly Nikon.
Hi Reef58

I didn't know much about Fuji before I started researching to switch. I changed largely out of frustration, because Canon can't provide me with the camera I want.

I did know I wanted a mirrorless high performance, weather sealed, robust , twin card, crop sensor body, with a DSLR type centre EVF. I ruled out micro four thirds. At the moment Fuji is THE game in town. I appreciate that Fuji won't be for everyone. If I was minted, which I'm not, I'd grab an R5 and a couple of lenses in a shot. And a big part of me would love a Fuji medium format.

Oh. And Fringer do an adaptor. You could use the 500 f4 on a Fuji X-T4. On the other hand you could save yourself the expense and loan the lens to me. ;) :ROFLMAO: . I'd test it out for you. Honest!! :p