There is an APS-C RF mount camera coming [CR3]

Bert63

What’s in da box?
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
924
1,972
What happens when you put a 600 or 800mm f/11 lens on an APS-C R-body? 1280mm field of view, in the latter case. That's pretty cool. I wonder about how image quality would compare to using a 1.4x or 2.0x teleconverter on a shorter lens.

Given I can shoot at almost 1000mm in crop mode on my R5 at f8 using the 100-400L II and a 1.4X III and get great results, the 800mm f11 with it's 22 foot minimum focal length fell completely off the interest scale.
 

Stig Nygaard

7DII & G5XII
CR Pro
Jul 10, 2013
81
112
Copenhagen
www.flickr.com
1 - checked your Flickr and you've got some really nice shots over there. :)
Thanks :)

2 - why would you not choose a FF? What is it you like about the crop bodies?
3 - I've been carrying my wildlife setup so long that weight isn't even an issue. The R5/EOS-R is as small a camera I would ever want to hold and I've added grips to both for better feel.
It's all about convenience. I think my bag gets plenty heavy and stuffed with 3 or 4 lenses in it. Sometime I also try to get room for a drone (foldable Mavic Pro) in the bag. So in the end I just want my equipment more compact and light.
Of course I know I can get better technical quality from fullframe, but even at same cost, convenience will win for me. Especially when traveling, which is a pretty important "use case" for me.
 
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Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
252
I wouldn't be surprised. You assume I am unfamiliar with Fuji, I am not. I just don't want one. They as are most other brands are fully capable in their own way. If I were to buy a Fuji it would be the Medium Format not the XT. I have for instance a 500f4 I can use with a Canon crop body but not a fuji, so why would you suggest I buy a Fuji? I am just showing the point buying a Fuji because you like them is not for everyone. If I had not lenses or my main camera a 1dx3 then maybe I would consider a Fuji XT, but more likely I would be looking at the Sony offering possibly Nikon.
And then there is that rumored RF 1200 f/8 L coming down the pike :).
 

Kane Clements

EOS M50
Dec 6, 2019
47
33
everyone needs 90d feature + mirrorless together on aps-c mirrorless within $1k-$1.5k... its not happening as a> they wouldn't like to go bankrupt b> they wouldn't like to kill R/RP and half of R6 market :D:ROFLMAO:
Hi Maru.

Look at the Fuji X-T3 and X-T4. You can get them in that price range and they will outperform the very lame and unreliable 90D.
 
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wyotex43n

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 24, 2016
51
36
I suspect the R5s will be released first and it will have essentially the same pixel density, so then the argument will be down to price and maybe a few FPS difference.
Exactly, If the FPS is twice what an R5s is going to be at half the price then it will be attractive to people who shoot wildlife. If it is 10% faster and only 10% cheaper it won't be. My new R5 produces about the same level of detail on bird shots with a higher hit rate and less noise than my 7dmk11. If indeed there is an R7 with the right price performance ratio I would consider it as a second camera. Maybe Canon will put the R5 sensor in a cooled body and we will all shoot 8k stills at 30FPS:)
 

reef58

EOS RP
Apr 16, 2016
278
202
Hi Reef58

I didn't know much about Fuji before I started researching to switch. I changed largely out of frustration, because Canon can't provide me with the camera I want.

I did know I wanted a mirrorless high performance, weather sealed, robust , twin card, crop sensor body, with a DSLR type centre EVF. I ruled out micro four thirds. At the moment Fuji is THE game in town. I appreciate that Fuji won't be for everyone. If I was minted, which I'm not, I'd grab an R5 and a couple of lenses in a shot. And a big part of me would love a Fuji medium format.

Oh. And Fringer do an adaptor. You could use the 500 f4 on a Fuji X-T4. On the other hand you could save yourself the expense and loan the lens to me. ;) :ROFLMAO: . I'd test it out for you. Honest!! :p
I am a Canon guy and pretty much believe all of the major companies provide gear that is more than adequate to get the job done. I really have no desire for an XT4 although I am sure it works plenty good enough. If I were to supplement my Canon they only considerations are in order, Fuji 100mp MF, Nikon d850/d500, and Sony A7r4. About the only one I really check out is the 100mp Fuji. I figured I would wait until Caon release the high MP Canon 5 series. The r5 is also tempting.

I am in the minority I am sure, but I plan to keep shooting video with the 1dx3 and considered the r5 for still only.
 
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GMCPhotographics

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Aug 22, 2010
1,662
367
49
Uk
www.GMCPhotographics.co.uk
Hi Reef58

I didn't know much about Fuji before I started researching to switch. I changed largely out of frustration, because Canon can't provide me with the camera I want.

I did know I wanted a mirrorless high performance, weather sealed, robust , twin card, crop sensor body, with a DSLR type centre EVF. I ruled out micro four thirds. At the moment Fuji is THE game in town. I appreciate that Fuji won't be for everyone. If I was minted, which I'm not, I'd grab an R5 and a couple of lenses in a shot. And a big part of me would love a Fuji medium format.

Oh. And Fringer do an adaptor. You could use the 500 f4 on a Fuji X-T4. On the other hand you could save yourself the expense and loan the lens to me. ;) :ROFLMAO: . I'd test it out for you. Honest!! :p
I hear what you are saying. However, Canon are the market leaders in terms of unit sales (by quite some margin) so the lenses (not so much the bodies) will always retain a lot of their value on the used market. At the moment, the semi-pro / pro camera market is at a tipping point of DSLR vs Mirrorless. The newest top tier camera from Canon is always going to be expensive. For me, while I'd like a R5...I don't have the budget to drop £3500 on one, regardless of how good it is. My current 5D3's are still serving me well and taking great pictures and my lens portfilio covers everything that I could wish for. I shoot weddings, portraits, family events, large events, wildlife and landscapes. So my lens shelf covers a lot of needs and has a lot of speciality lenses. Jumping over to mirrorless isn't a current priority for me, but an indiction for future me. When the price of the R5 drops to a more sane level and every one is bored of it...and hankering from a mkII....then that will be when I buy a pair of them. My current 5D3 is already as technologically advanced as I need. I don't need more resolution...or fps. I already have a great live view system. The R6 looks nice too...but why buy something that is very simular to what I've already got and using? The EOS Rp and R were a poor handling camera and it's AF was sub par with my current equipement. But it paved the way for the next gen camera bodies which are of more interest to me. However, for me...this covid pandemic and 2nd wave have pretty much nuked my photographic income this year and it's not a time for me to be spending large quatities of cash for a "nice to have". There is nothing in the R5 / R6 / Mirrorless cameras that will enable me to take more sellable photos than my current gear offers (sure..in some cases, slightly easier maybe, but not better or higher priced). Your situation and needs might vary...but that's my current take.
 
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Kane Clements

EOS M50
Dec 6, 2019
47
33
I hear what you are saying. However, Canon are the market leaders in terms of unit sales (by quite some margin) so the lenses (not so much the bodies) will always retain a lot of their value on the used market. At the moment, the semi-pro / pro camera market is at a tipping point of DSLR vs Mirrorless. The newest top tier camera from Canon is always going to be expensive. For me, while I'd like a R5...I don't have the budget to drop £3500 on one, regardless of how good it is. My current 5D3's are still serving me well and taking great pictures and my lens portfilio covers everything that I could wish for. I shoot weddings, portraits, family events, large events, wildlife and landscapes. So my lens shelf covers a lot of needs and has a lot of speciality lenses. Jumping over to mirrorless isn't a current priority for me, but an indiction for future me. When the price of the R5 drops to a more sane level and every one is bored of it...and hankering from a mkII....then that will be when I buy a pair of them. My current 5D3 is already as technologically advanced as I need. I don't need more resolution...or fps. I already have a great live view system. The R6 looks nice too...but why buy something that is very simular to what I've already got and using? The EOS Rp and R were a poor handling camera and it's AF was sub par with my current equipement. But it paved the way for the next gen camera bodies which are of more interest to me. However, for me...this covid pandemic and 2nd wave have pretty much nuked my photographic income this year and it's not a time for me to be spending large quatities of cash for a "nice to have". There is nothing in the R5 / R6 / Mirrorless cameras that will enable me to take more sellable photos than my current gear offers (sure..in some cases, slightly easier maybe, but not better or higher priced). Your situation and needs might vary...but that's my current take.
Hi. Good points well made and probably reflects the circumstances of many in the photography world. Had I been in your shoes with a brace of 5D3s and lens collection I wouldn’t have been in the market for a new body or open to changing systems. And now I have invested I am not planning to change or upgrade for a long time. (Apart from buying the forthcoming Fuji 70-300 for which I’m already saving).

And therein lies a problem for the camera makers. They earn their crust making stuff and in part rely on the hype of informal marketing channels like Canon Rumours or Fuji Rumours or Mac Rumours etc. to generate excitement. That also helps build brand loyalty reinforced by the money people have already sunk into their gear.

Whereas if ones kit works and isn’t clapped out it will keep on doing the job as well as on the day you got it. Unless there is some amazing feature that as you point out would make your images worth more, why drop a load of cash on new?

Best wishes and all that.

K
 
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amfoto1

I'm New Here
Aug 29, 2014
10
5
Just because Canon says there won't be any RF-S lenses doesn't mean there won't be RF lenses specifically designed for APS-C crop sensor R-series cameras. In fact, Canon recently patented an RF 15-70mm that appears to be a lens for crop cameras. Not all patents end up being manufactured, but this tells us Canon is at least considering offering one or more crop RF lenses.

What the "no RF-S lenses" statement probably means is that with the new RF cameras Canon sees no need for a bayonet mount variant designed to prevent the crop lens from being mounted on a full frame camera. Instead they will simply program the FF camera to self-crop any time it detects a crop lens has been mounted (and hopefully will still allow the user to switch back to full frame, if they wish, in spite of the likelihood of vignetting). This is pretty much what all other manufacturers have been doing for years with both their DSLRs and mirrorless FF cameras.

Canon's approach with EF and EF-S lenses might have made sense in 2004 when they first introduced cameras and lenses that used the EF-S variant of the EF mount. But this is no longer necessary. Today's FF cameras have so much more resolution than 2004 cameras that they can tolerate a crop much better. Also, originally one of the key reasons for the EF-S mount was to allow for optical designs that would partially intrude inside the camera, which would physically interfere with a DSLR's mirror actiion and potentially cause damage to both camera and lens. With mirrorless cameras, there's no mirror moving around in there and no such problem.
 
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Maru

EOS 90D
Feb 9, 2019
103
25
My point of view is ...current market is more cost driven than feature {even though we talk about features a lot here but most normal users go by cost first}..RF-S doesnt have a opening slot unless they put it around $500 range {that will take out lot of features too}... Canon will not kill its current line up of RP->R->R6->R5 and any feature less than R/RP makes it a junk camera... so it will be around 2.5k and thats not an APSC for regular users and doesnt leave much gap with the King R5
 
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Czardoom

EOS 90D
Jan 27, 2020
132
315
I didn't notice that issue moving from 7D to 5Diii. With crop you would be further away with the APS-C so not really in closeup range which can be useful not to disturb small subjects. But doesn't full frame give you the option of shallower depth of field but you can always close your aperture when you choose? APS-C won't give you the option of shallower DOF compared to FF.
As is always the case, it depends on what you shoot. With my m4/3rds system, I routinely need an aperture of f/11, f/13 or even more to get an entire flower - or two or more flowers next to each other - in focus. So, I have no way to get f/26 with my FF camera to get the same DOF. I do have an FF camera if I need shallow DOF, but need a crop camera to get the wider DOF that I need far more often (almost never, if ever, need a shallower DOF than I get with my crop cameras).
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
252
My point of view is ...current market is more cost driven than feature {even though we talk about features a lot here but most normal users go by cost first}..RF-S doesnt have a opening slot unless they put it around $500 range {that will take out lot of features too}... Canon will not kill its current line up of RP->R->R6->R5 and any feature less than R/RP makes it a junk camera... so it will be around 2.5k and thats not an APSC for regular users and doesnt leave much gap with the King R5
That was the number I came up with. Given the suggested long lead time, I think this is a just-in-case project. I.e. just-in-case the R5s doesn't pacify the 7d II crowd. The R5s will certainly be first and then we will see.
 
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Czardoom

EOS 90D
Jan 27, 2020
132
315
...but you're not buying a full frame camera. You're buying an APS-C sensor camera. Just one with an RF mount, engineered for full frame glass. Unless we're getting some RF-S lenses, I just don't see how it works - am I being dense? what am I missing?
I works the same way as all the many folks who bought a crop DSLR and then used EF lenses on it. All the folks wanting more reach and high quality glass. Just guessing, but I would think that the majority of 7d owners owned primarily or exlusively EF lenses. SInce an RF lens can be designed to be a wider angle lens for FF while at the same time being a normal angle lens for crop, there is no reason to create a second line of lenses made only for crop.
 
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David - Sydney

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
453
375
www.flickr.com
I works the same way as all the many folks who bought a crop DSLR and then used EF lenses on it. All the folks wanting more reach and high quality glass. Just guessing, but I would think that the majority of 7d owners owned primarily or exlusively EF lenses. SInce an RF lens can be designed to be a wider angle lens for FF while at the same time being a normal angle lens for crop, there is no reason to create a second line of lenses made only for crop.
I needed to get a wide angle EF-S lens as the EF wide angle weren't designed for APC-S sensors (and too expensive).
 

David - Sydney

EOS RP
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
453
375
www.flickr.com
My current 5D3's are still serving me well and taking great pictures and my lens portfilio covers everything that I could wish for. I shoot weddings, portraits, family events, large events, wildlife and landscapes. So my lens shelf covers a lot of needs and has a lot of speciality lenses. Jumping over to mirrorless isn't a current priority for me, but an indiction for future me. When the price of the R5 drops to a more sane level and every one is bored of it...and hankering from a mkII....then that will be when I buy a pair of them. My current 5D3 is already as technologically advanced as I need. I don't need more resolution...or fps. I already have a great live view system. The R6 looks nice too...but why buy something that is very simular to what I've already got and using? The EOS Rp and R were a poor handling camera and it's AF was sub par with my current equipement. But it paved the way for the next gen camera bodies which are of more interest to me. However, for me...this covid pandemic and 2nd wave have pretty much nuked my photographic income this year and it's not a time for me to be spending large quatities of cash for a "nice to have". There is nothing in the R5 / R6 / Mirrorless cameras that will enable me to take more sellable photos than my current gear offers (sure..in some cases, slightly easier maybe, but not better or higher priced). Your situation and needs might vary...but that's my current take.
I was happy with my 5Diii until a 5Div came up cheap second hand. Something to consider as it was an overall significant improvement... much more than I expected. The changeover cost wasn't a lot of money and I was able to sell that 5Div for more than I bought it for when I migrated to the R5.
The biggest improvement with the R5 is the eye AF and across the whole sensor especially for sports/action. No recomposing anymore. Keeper rate is much higher than with my 5Diii/iv but this could come down to my lack of skill at the time. Lots of cream on the cake for fps/buffer/cropability. Smaller size body is not that important to me but the smaller lenses (70-200 and 100-500mm) do make a difference

Appreciate that revenue is taking a hit at the moment for future purchases. I am pretty cleaned out at the moment.
 

Maru

EOS 90D
Feb 9, 2019
103
25
That was the number I came up with. Given the suggested long lead time, I think this is a just-in-case project. I.e. just-in-case the R5s doesn't pacify the 7d II crowd. The R5s will certainly be first and then we will see.
Agreed
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
252
I works the same way as all the many folks who bought a crop DSLR and then used EF lenses on it. All the folks wanting more reach and high quality glass. Just guessing, but I would think that the majority of 7d owners owned primarily or exlusively EF lenses. SInce an RF lens can be designed to be a wider angle lens for FF while at the same time being a normal angle lens for crop, there is no reason to create a second line of lenses made only for crop.
Other than the issue of price, that only works if the crop frame has higher pixel density than the FF. With an R5s likely coming down the pike, I doubt that will be case, so we are down to the only reason for the camera being to save a couple of grand on body to be used with $10k lenses. Seems like a pretty thin case.
 

zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,023
204
I works the same way as all the many folks who bought a crop DSLR and then used EF lenses on it. All the folks wanting more reach and high quality glass. Just guessing, but I would think that the majority of 7d owners owned primarily or exlusively EF lenses. SInce an RF lens can be designed to be a wider angle lens for FF while at the same time being a normal angle lens for crop, there is no reason to create a second line of lenses made only for crop.
Correct
 

zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,023
204
I'd agree if the rumour said same size/build as R5 but this thing might be smaller than an RP (no bigger apparently) with all that implies for control layout and handling. Will that satisfy the 7d crowd?
This still feels like the SL2 of the RF line with a few cheap lenses to follow but it's easy to pick holes in that!
I find this whole rumour confusing and contradictory.
 
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