Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3

[Quackator]

Well.....

Last week I swapped D800/D4 for D4s/D810.
Long story short - 5D MkII and 5D MkIII get equal usage as the Nikons do.
They all have their merits and strengths.

Most of the people dissing one or the other can't compare from
first hand experience. That simple.

 

[drjlo]

If i had to start over today, i'd go with d810 over the older 5d3. But i don't want to go through the hassel of selling all my lenses so i'll wait to see how Canon responds. Competition is great for all us consumers and Canon could use a hard kick in the butt like this to start stepping up.

This is probably how most people feel about D810, myself included. If I did night photography for a living or printed huge landscapes, I might actually switch from 5D III to D810, but otherwise, there really is no pressing need to switch, given how I still prefer the Canon lens lineup and own many.

 

[SPL]

Get the feeling it's not easy to make money with photography these days. Those who shoot as their main job seem to drive Yugos from what I see personally and those who shoot AND sell products and build up a giant web presence and following seem to live in nice homes in La Jolla, CA or the fancy part of CT ;D.

It's definitely tough out there for all but the very top photographers, at least in terms of making six figures, plus. I am in awe of people who do nothing but product reviews and seem to live quite well in terms of farms, horses, and trips to tropical islands, not to mention any names...but I guess a percent or two of big white purchases adds up

The reality is that stock is all but dead and that was a huge source of income in the past. It's been supplanted by workshops, books, videos, and affiliate links.

They say that if you want to make money from photography, you need to teach photography, not do photography. Scott Kelby has done rather well with this model.

+1
I agree…some of these people do very well financially. I am always amazed at some of the places that people, such as Trey Ratcliff, have been to,…sometimes multiple times…places I will never get to…

 

[RGF]

I feel Nikon has positioned D800/E/10 and the D4/s in two distinct categories, with both sharing many of the great pro features and also having distinct areas of strength. On the other hand, 5DIII shared only a few of the 1D X's pro features, and apart from the higher megapixel count there isn't much that's essentially better in a 5DIII.
Is that an unfair assessment?

5D M3 lacks the DR of the Sony sensor. If can addressed that single issue, I would be very happy with the replacement. Of course more FPS, better ISO performance and great MP would be nice but not essential (IMHO) as improved DR.

 

[sagittariansrock]

The fact is rising tide lifts all boats.
I am not concerned one bit about videography for myself, yet the fact that Canon seems to fall behind in prosumer or low end pro videography behind Panasonic and Sony is unfortunately going to affect revenues. If Canon decides not to bring what is now standard or expected to sub-10K cameras it will definitely affect their bottom line. 5DII used to be the definitive line in HDSLR filming, now GH4 and A7s are much better it seems. Even Black Magic was said to be better than the 5DIII.
Similarly, Nikon has brought lots of great new features in the D810. I am not concerned that my 5DIII doesn't have it, but I would like Canon to bring out a camera that does have all those features so they don't lose customers. A high-res high-DR sensor would certainly help.
I would like Canon to flourish because it will affect me indirectly and allow me to use the great equipment they bring out. I am concerned that Canon's business strategy (which often overrides market surveys for big companies) might be too conservative.

 

[9VIII]

They say that if you want to make money from photography, you need to teach photography, not do photography. Scott Kelby has done rather well with this model.

Yup.
Fact of the matter is someone can learn in minutes what took days with a film camera.
With the barrier to entry so low, "photographer" now describes a type of consumer more than it does a service provider.

 

[sagittariansrock]

They say that if you want to make money from photography, you need to teach photography, not do photography. Scott Kelby has done rather well with this model.

Yup.
Fact of the matter is someone can learn in minutes what took days with a film camera.
With the barrier to entry so low, "photographer" now describes a type of consumer more than it does a service provider.

I was a victim of this low barrier to entry when we hired a photographer for my wedding who basically took mediocre snapshots all night long.
We weren't trying to save any money (and the guy wasn't cheap either). He had shot a friend's wedding with a partner and had been recommended by the friend. We weren't aware that the partnership had dissolved and the other guy was really all the goods.
He took terrible images, missed half of our families (there isn't a picture of my parents with us), had to be threatened with legal action to recover the images, and never delivered the albums.
If he had needed to go through the effort of learning photography techniques like in the old days, he would have probably learned a bit about shooting weddings and about professionalism on the way.

Now it's up to the consumers to wise up and realize good things don't come cheap and anyone with a camera is not a photographer.

 

[tculotta]

I am hardly an expert, but I feel like Mr. Northrup is being judged quite harshly. Yes, stylistically, his review is not my cup of tea. However, what he did took a not insignificant amount of time and effort, the videos and his books included. I've created and published books, including layout, and it's more than a few hours worth of work. Also, he has several photos on his site that go beyond the efforts of a weekend shooter. He has found a niche and appears to be making a living in it. Touché.

PS - as someone who lives in Connecticut, while there are few inexpensive places here, he does not live in the expensive corner, either, as one posited.

Disagree if you may, but give the man his due.

 

[raptor3x]

I want to see him perform a decent AF comparison and not one where he only uses the center/central AF point(s). Let's say photographing a kid on a swing (in motion) at F/1.4 to F/2 with one of the side AF points located at roughly one third of the image. If you do that, you'll be comparing crosstype AF points (5D3) vs non-crosstype AF points (D810) and will see the D810 getting blown out of the water.

This was the only part of the review that I had any issue with. I have no trouble believing that the D810 beat the 5D3, but the 60% hit rate on the 5D3 is just much lower than my experience. I'd love to see what tracking settings he used for the test. Based on the RAW files that he posted, we know that he did the AF Servo test on the Canon using Spot AF and didn't use any of the f/2.8 double cross type points, which makes me think he probably didn't tweak the tracking to best suit the situation. The other possibility is that there's a servo tracking issue with the Tamron 24-70 VC, but I've never used one so can't really say.

Edit: Just looked through the RAW files and it appears all of his tracking settings reported in the exif were all reasonable so I'm not really sure what to make of these results; I thought for sure the tracking sensitivity was too high but I guess not. Maybe it's something to do with the lens or the focus point used.

 

[npherno]

The fact is rising tide lifts all boats.
I am not concerned one bit about videography for myself, yet the fact that Canon seems to fall behind in prosumer or low end pro videography behind Panasonic and Sony is unfortunately going to affect revenues. If Canon decides not to bring what is now standard or expected to sub-10K cameras it will definitely affect their bottom line. 5DII used to be the definitive line in HDSLR filming, now GH4 and A7s are much better it seems. Even Black Magic was said to be better than the 5DIII.
Similarly, Nikon has brought lots of great new features in the D810. I am not concerned that my 5DIII doesn't have it, but I would like Canon to bring out a camera that does have all those features so they don't lose customers. A high-res high-DR sensor would certainly help.
I would like Canon to flourish because it will affect me indirectly and allow me to use the great equipment they bring out. I am concerned that Canon's business strategy (which often overrides market surveys for big companies) might be too conservative.

I agree 110%. Sony absolutely has plans to take marketshare from Canon and Nikon. The question is will Canon respond or keep nickel and diming us with incremental updates?

Sony has a lens problem. The other issue with AF and other rough edges would take maybe two or three new generations of cameras to work out. I think we will see Canon and Nikon users switching in big numbers.

 

[9VIII]

They say that if you want to make money from photography, you need to teach photography, not do photography. Scott Kelby has done rather well with this model.

Yup.
Fact of the matter is someone can learn in minutes what took days with a film camera.
With the barrier to entry so low, "photographer" now describes a type of consumer more than it does a service provider.

I was a victim of this low barrier to entry when we hired a photographer for my wedding who basically took mediocre snapshots all night long.
We weren't trying to save any money (and the guy wasn't cheap either). He had shot a friend's wedding with a partner and had been recommended by the friend. We weren't aware that the partnership had dissolved and the other guy was really all the goods.
He took terrible images, missed half of our families (there isn't a picture of my parents with us), had to be threatened with legal action to recover the images, and never delivered the albums.
If he had needed to go through the effort of learning photography techniques like in the old days, he would have probably learned a bit about shooting weddings and about professionalism on the way.

Now it's up to the consumers to wise up and realize good things don't come cheap and anyone with a camera is not a photographer.

Very unfortunate.
I have no doubt that it would be possible for someone to pick up a camera and produce quality work in a short period of time, it's just impossible to tell who has or hasn't done their homework by looking at them (or their equipment).

There is something about this guy, that makes me unable to watch any of this videos through. I honestly don't know what it is, and it has nothing to do with his brand preferences (the first video of his I watched was entirely Canon related, and I still couldn't get through it)...I think it's the way he talks. I dunno...just can't watch him.

The music in the intro was grating? All style no substance?

I have to say that I like how MichaelTheMentor does things, I don't always agree with him but his videos are like an all night buffet compared to the neon packaged low calorie snacks you get with most reviews.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

There is something about this guy, that makes me unable to watch any of this videos through. I honestly don't know what it is, and it has nothing to do with his brand preferences (the first video of his I watched was entirely Canon related, and I still couldn't get through it)...I think it's the way he talks. I dunno...just can't watch him.

I guess just one of those things. I kinda liked the style.

 

[Loswr]

Based on the RAW files that he posted, we know that he did the AF Servo test on the Canon using Spot AF...

Interesting. Presumably, he doesn't know that Canon recommends against using Spot AF with moving subjects.

 

[assassin11]

Good review but, wasn't the D810 just released? Will he switch back to Canon when (if) the Mark IV comes out?

 

[Chisox2335]

Good review but, wasn't the D810 just released? Will he switch back to Canon when (if) the Mark IV comes out?

Yes because that will be the new hot item that will create the most income for him. Him saying the 5d3 is better would generate little new income for him. Him recommending ppl go buy the brand new d810 will generate much more income for him.

 

[JohnUSA]

Geez there was a real asinine comment made by the wife at the end.... Paraphrasing... "If you have the Canon 5D3 and not a pro... don't switch to the Nikon."

The snobbiness of the video turns me off.

 

[scyrene]

They say that if you want to make money from photography, you need to teach photography, not do photography. Scott Kelby has done rather well with this model.

Yup.
Fact of the matter is someone can learn in minutes what took days with a film camera.
With the barrier to entry so low, "photographer" now describes a type of consumer more than it does a service provider.

I was a victim of this low barrier to entry when we hired a photographer for my wedding who basically took mediocre snapshots all night long.
We weren't trying to save any money (and the guy wasn't cheap either). He had shot a friend's wedding with a partner and had been recommended by the friend. We weren't aware that the partnership had dissolved and the other guy was really all the goods.
He took terrible images, missed half of our families (there isn't a picture of my parents with us), had to be threatened with legal action to recover the images, and never delivered the albums.
If he had needed to go through the effort of learning photography techniques like in the old days, he would have probably learned a bit about shooting weddings and about professionalism on the way.

Now it's up to the consumers to wise up and realize good things don't come cheap and anyone with a camera is not a photographer.

I'm sorry to hear you had that experience. And I don't want to sound like I'm criticising you - but I do wonder if there's a logical link between the technology and practitioners' professionalism.

I have no experience of film photography beyond point-and-shoot family/holiday snapshots from my younger days, so maybe I'm missing a lot. But I don't think good quality digital photography is easy, nor can it be mastered (especially with a DSLR) in minutes. There are cowboys in every field - and I suspect there always have been. And it seems that most of what makes wedding photography challenging is beyond the camera - it's about scouting the location, talking to the clients and understanding their needs, getting to the venue on time, having backup equipment/assistants, and producing a package (nowadays likely in book form) that merits the occasion (thinking about it, I suppose most types of photography rely on a lot more than the camera and strict photographic technique, but anyway). Given how much people spend on weddings, and wedding photographers these days, surely (at the better end) things have improved? Maybe it's an unfair comparison, but my grandparents' expectations were very limited (they were only allowed 6 shots due to rationing, and they were just snaps, nothing fancy) - whereas a recent friend's wedding involved (after much research on the best photographer for their needs) a separate shoot on location, video, a glossy hardback book, etc.

Why would shooting on film make someone more professional? Were film cameras much more expensive? I suppose proper photographers would have a darkroom, but if you were slapdash in those days, maybe you'd get someone else to do it?

Just lots of questions arise when people compare the pre-digital era with today, I hope you don't mind

 

[Maui5150]

YAWN. Gee lets compare a camera that just came out to one that is two years old....

Hmmmm...

I think overall Canon has been sidetracked the in Cine market and this has hurt there last generation of cameras from not having quite as big jumps as they could. Also feel they have been taking there time with this next set of upgrades which leads me to believe these next releases will be both solid and have substantially more improvement (i.e. from 5DMK II to 5DMK III the 5DMK IV will have much stronger gap of improvements)

In someways I believe the 7D MKII has been delayed because it might outperform the 5DMKIII and Canon wants to release the 7D MKII and the 3D 5DMK IV what ever it will be which will be a higher pixel with big changes

But comparing a just released camera with larger sensor to an older one? He might as well just compared the 5DMKIII to the 5D MK II

 

[bholliman]

YAWN. Gee lets compare a camera that just came out to one that is two years old....

But comparing a just released camera with larger sensor to an older one? He might as well just compared the 5DMKIII to the 5D MK II

+1 Its a testament to the excellence of the 5D Mk III that it took the competition 2+ years to equal and possibly slightly surpass it!

 

[M_S]

YAWN. Gee lets compare a camera that just came out to one that is two years old....

Hmmmm...

That was exactly what I was thinking, when watching the video. Image quality wise, it was clear from the beginning, what the outcome would be, just my two cents. Taking a 36 MP sensor which came from an already good camera of newer date (D4s, D800) and comparing that to a 22MP sensor, which is around 2-3 years on the market already (but still good) is kind of useless. The ability to recover shadow details in the Canon nowadays isn't on par anymore with the newer A7, A7R, 810, 800. Resolution is also better too in the newer cameras. But is that really news? I don't think so. Coming from a G12, I am just starting to shoot with the 5D3. Perhaps in a few months that IQ dilemma will bug me, but right now, not so much...
So all in all, it was a nice video, but real "news" and insight I didn't get.