Touchscreen Coming to EOS 5D Mark IV? [CR1]

[tomscott]

Pretty dumfounded by the lack of excitement for this feature and the antiquated views of this forum.

Dumbfounding that your personal views of what constitutes a useful or desirable feature are not universally shared? I suggest you get over it.

Of corse these things can be solved by using various gear like tripods etc but I don't like using them, they are cumbersome and IMO a lot of the time hinder creativity because it takes so much longer to set up.

Interesting. Perhaps the creativity of my long exposure blue hour shots and panoramas is hindered by taking the time to set up a tripod...but I doubt it. :

As usually nero your comments are extremely helpful in this argument.

I make my living as a wedding and event photographer so I'm just giving my opinion and seen as the camera is aimed at professionals in this field that is my opinion.

 

[ignomini]

I registered JUST to say this:

For all you people who think tillable and/or articulating screens are delicate or weaken a body, all I have to say is you must have very limited shooting experience.

- There has been no evidence of articulating screens being the source of numerous returns, warranty claims, or malfunctions.

- The usefulness of an articulating screen is incredible. Being able to shoot easily from different levels without having to contort your body into weird positions is a godsend, and if you think it's only when you shoot macro, again, I have to wonder what kind of shooting you do. And no, a 90 degree viewfinder won't help you when you're holding your camera above your head or dropping it close/on the ground. And have you ever tried to shoot yourself in a group? Do you know how much easier it is to flip a screen 180 degrees and get the framing right in real time?

- If you're worried about damage, you realize you can keep the screen locked in place, right? And that if it's an articulating screen, you can actually protect the screen even more by having it face the inside?

Once you use a hinged screen you realize just how limiting a fixed screen is. I love my 5DIII but I've lost count of the number of times I've wished I had my old 60D's rotating screen. These arguments against tilting and articulating screens are tiring.

I'm not worried about it breaking off, I'm worried about it having a smaller screen area, and making the camera fatter. If you want a TV camera, buy a mirrorless camera or a point and shoot. Please Canon, please leave the floppy screens to the consumer products, and concentrate on still image quality for the high end stuff.

 

[mdflare]

I registered JUST to say this:

For all you people who think tillable and/or articulating screens are delicate or weaken a body, all I have to say is you must have very limited shooting experience.

- There has been no evidence of articulating screens being the source of numerous returns, warranty claims, or malfunctions.

- The usefulness of an articulating screen is incredible. Being able to shoot easily from different levels without having to contort your body into weird positions is a godsend, and if you think it's only when you shoot macro, again, I have to wonder what kind of shooting you do. And no, a 90 degree viewfinder won't help you when you're holding your camera above your head or dropping it close/on the ground. And have you ever tried to shoot yourself in a group? Do you know how much easier it is to flip a screen 180 degrees and get the framing right in real time?

- If you're worried about damage, you realize you can keep the screen locked in place, right? And that if it's an articulating screen, you can actually protect the screen even more by having it face the inside?

Once you use a hinged screen you realize just how limiting a fixed screen is. I love my 5DIII but I've lost count of the number of times I've wished I had my old 60D's rotating screen. These arguments against tilting and articulating screens are tiring.

Exactly my thoughts.
I switched from a 60D to a 6D and I miss it so much. Regardless of new specs if the 6DII would have a movable screen like the 60 i would get it. Here just some of the myriad situations i missed it:
-every single time close or on the ground or above water
-Handholding overhead (with or without stative). Video in general.
-checking night-sky pictures after long exposure without having to tilt the camera to be able to view the screen better. (long time exposure and 180cm high stative to look on the screen is not the best idea when its very windy)
-framing pictures when the camera is back to back with a wall or rock
-Camera literally too far away to see anything when the screen is not facing you
-this is just a gimmick: selfies/group-selfies.

A good way how i feel about it is that it is usefull in every situation where the use of the camera is not plain boring in front of your nose.

to all the people who say “use the smartphone or tablet” I say: give, carry and reload all the batteries wlan devours while doing that.

great pictures to all !

(I´m sorry if i butchered some grammar in the post)

 

[sanj]

Infared. The elbow (and knee) brace are my ultimate photography tools. They let me go on my elbows and knees quickly without strain...

Oh good! You took my comment in the vain it was given! FOR A LAUGH! YAY!
Hope that there are no real health issues! ;D

Am always for a good laugh. No, no real health issues. Wait, let me ask my shrink...

 

[unfocused]

As usually nero your comments are extremely helpful in this argument.

I make my living as a wedding and event photographer so I'm just giving my opinion and seen as the camera is aimed at professionals in this field that is my opinion.

Yes, sometimes sarcasm is warranted. But responding to every post with sarcasm, especially when there is no substance to or justification for it, just seems childish.

Like you, Tom, I'm a little dumbfounded that people on this forum (which skews well off the norm when it comes to technology fascination) can be so technology resistant when it comes to change. Neither touchscreens nor flip screens are new or untested technologies. In fact, touchscreens have become the norm in almost every other area. It's about time the technology is incorporated into camera bodies.

 

[scyrene]

Pretty dumfounded by the lack of excitement for this feature and the antiquated views of this forum.

Dumbfounding that your personal views of what constitutes a useful or desirable feature are not universally shared? I suggest you get over it.

Of corse these things can be solved by using various gear like tripods etc but I don't like using them, they are cumbersome and IMO a lot of the time hinder creativity because it takes so much longer to set up.

Interesting. Perhaps the creativity of my long exposure blue hour shots and panoramas is hindered by taking the time to set up a tripod...but I doubt it. :

In fairness Neuro, I don't think it's the opposition to certain features so much as the basis of that opposition - opponents don't seem to have any good reason or evidence to object to the addition of features that they can just choose to disable/ignore (sounds rather like people who resent their DSLR having video functionality).

Disclosure: I happen to be neutral on the subject of flip screens, as I've never used one and not felt like I needed one (but as I get older, could imagine kneeling and squatting and crouching to photograph macro subject especially would be helped by one); the EOS-M touchscreen is good, and I'd have nothing against them adding that functionality, but again it doesn't bother me either way.

Perhaps...but how do you disable or ignore an articulating screen? I'm actually in favor of a touchscreen (with the option to disable), it makes image review (zooming and navigating the zoomed image to check focus) much more efficient. However, the risk/concern is that more and more functionality will be shifted to that touchscreen...perhaps exclusively to that touchscreen with a concomitant elimination of manual controls (buttons and dials).

Oh, but buttons and dials are so antiquated... :

Buttons and dials are essential of course, and I'd be among the many who'd oppose any dumbing down in that regard. As for the swivel... I guess people are saying you can stow it against the body so it's in the same place as a fixed screen. No chance of it snapping off. As for weather sealing, people seem to disagree - it should be possible in principle, but then what the term means is hard to pin down anyway.

Incidentally, the thing I found the EOS-M's touchscreen does particularly well (and better than buttons) is trimming video clips. Much faster and more intuitive, I seem to recall.

 

[onlyme]

To me the tilt aspect of the feature would bring into question the robustness of this camera. I wouldn't be bothered either way on the touch screen feature as long as it can be switched off.

 

[unfocused]

Weathersealing is really a non-issue. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that buttons and dials, which must be flexible and therefore cannot be completely sealed, are a much bigger challenge than a simple hinge that can have the wiring routed inside and sealed off.

 

[gunship01]

I would have to think Canon's efforts are best spent on making the sharpest pictures (IQ, low light, sensor, ISO) possible and leave the gimmicks to the lower tiered series (7 and 6). I cannot imagine many wedding photographers needing to shoot too many pictures from the hip and not look through the viewfinder.

It needn't be either/or - you think adding a different kind of screen means they don't have the resources to address other issues? Really?

And why is it a gimmick? Needlessly snobbish view.

I would say it is not a feature germane to taking a good picture. Many arguments are made for a good sensor to capture light. A flip screen is not an essential part of that equation. One individual did say it makes a difference in close quarters. OK, agree there, but that might be the exception rather than what a majority of photographers might use their systems for.

In my opinion, its light, focus, and composure. Flip screen could help with the latter of the three, but as I have a basic outlook of photography, it is (for me) about the aforementioned three points. A desire for a product to have certain features is one of a personal nature and I have never disparaged those who want over 50 megs for each landscape shot; those who want something to shoot 15 FPS; nor those who want useable prints with ISO setting above 4000. To each their own as we all hypothesize about what is the box labeled "5D4" or "1DX M2". To make it personal by suggesting my views are "snobbish" is unwarranted.

 

[Ozarker]

From reading the last 6 pages one thing occurs to me, the people who are damning the flip/touch screen have never actually tried one which is obvious from the comments (will it change settings as you raise it to the face to take a shot for instance), so it’s the usual much ado about nothing.
I have a 70D and the touch screen is invaluable, it makes changing settings a rapid experience, I have also never read a single “my flip screen broke” thread on here (or elsewhere) so to my knowledge it’s all win win. It’s the one small thing I miss while using my 5DIII, but the FF advantages need no discussion here!

Yup, you are 100% correct. The best feature on my 70D is the articulating touch screen. When I got my 5D Mark III I realized how great an idea the screen on the 70D is.

People keep talking about missing buttons, etc. Heck, they are all there, just in a different form.

For all the doom and gloom talk about Canon being slow to add new tech a person would think the articulating touch screen would be a welcomed technology. Instead, we get people talking about how horrible the idea is who have not even tried it out. They imagine problems that don't exist and making problems up out of thin air.

I think the articulating touch screen makes things far easier... from shooting at awkward angles to changing the settings.

This thread has been an eye opener for me. I understand that sometimes people are resistant to change, however, I never realized people would just imagine things that have no basis in their experience / reality.

Like anything else a touch screen can fail, but so can mechanical buttons.

Should the "touch" feature of the touch screen fail on my 70D the camera is still fully functional through the buttons and vice versa. Imagine that! A camera with a backup plan!

People should quit just making things up. Go rent a 70D and see that the boogeyman is sometimes ourselves.

 

[Ozarker]

The big fear from experienced EOS users about adding a touch screen is that Canon will then remove 'unnecessary' buttons and move options to touch-screen only. This would be bad.

I think that a touch screen would be a good advantage for two reasons only.

a) the ability to touch a focus point in live view mode (very handy for tripod use)

b) pinch/zoom on images in preview mode.

No Canon EOS with touch screen (as far as I know) has not had the option to disable the touch screen in the menu, but I really would like to see a future pro touch screen have this option expanded in the menus to:

ENABLE TOUCH SCREEN ALWAYS
ENABLE TOUCH SCREEN IN IMAGE PREVIEW AND LIVE VIEW MODE ONLY
ENABLE TOUCH SCREEN IN IMAGE PREVIEW ONLY
DISABLE TOUCH SCREEN

That would make usability of a touch screen on a 5D class camera perfectly acceptable to me.

Jolyon

+100
Great suggestion!

Oh...and we still need to keep all the buttons...so that the camera works fluidly without a touch screen. It's just more versatile that way!

You guys crack me up. Go rent a 70D.

 

[Luds34]

We've had six 70ds for a couple of years now, with pretty heavy usage by undergraduate students... One of them has a damaged articulating screen. It still works as a screen but doesn't close properly. And its out of warranty and not worth the expense of fixing (its now the last one to go out but is still fully functional).

I've no idea what the students did to it, but it does suggest it's a point of weakness compared to a fixed screen.

But then being able to use it for high/low angle shots is really useful at times, so there are plusses and minuses.

More than likely, it was damaged because the camera didn't belong to the person using it.

That is exactly what I was thinking when I read that.

 

[PureClassA]

Wow guys. 9 Pages of posts about a CR1. Sweet ;D :

 

[Loswr]

And if we think the flip screen is a gimmick, we are antiquated amateurs who never tried one?

Of course. We all know that to succeed as a product, the 5DIV must be a FF mirrorless camera with a flippy screen, WiFi, GPS and 15 stops of DR. Anything less is just outdated and will only appeal to old fuddy-duddies, not to the enlightened and progressive trendsetters and Internet camera reviewers.

I don't want enthusiasts to be without their toys, but on a pro body, which is what the post is about, give me performance, durability, and reliability. Elegant simplicity is what I LOVE about the 5DIII design.

IMO*, a touchscreen would fit nicely into that description. A tilt or fully articulating screen, not so much.


* Note by including the abbreviation for 'in my opinion,' I definitively distinguish the associated statement(s) from anything else I may post that may not necessarily be an opinion despite being a clearly non-factual statement posted by one person on the Internet. Furthermore, labeling a statement 'IMO' categorically absolves me of responsibility for any issues readers may take with that statement.

 

[infared]

Flippy floppy screens really are useful paired with an eyecup. I'm shooting b-cam at a business conference here.
The 5D would be great with the extra light sensitivity and the ability to go full frame for stills, but it's a pain to work with compared to a 60/70D. I shouldn't have to sacrifice functionality moving to a higher end camera like that.

Keep moving.
Buy a video camera. ;D (see below)

 

[pedro]

Wow guys. 9 Pages of posts about a CR1. Sweet ;D :

I was about to say: Craig's site is prone to be down for days due to the tremendous response, once the 5DIV gets announced if we can discuss so much at the mention of a rumored swivel screen 8)

 

[infared]

Infared. The elbow (and knee) brace are my ultimate photography tools. They let me go on my elbows and knees quickly without strain...

Oh good! You took my comment in the vain it was given! FOR A LAUGH! YAY!
Hope that there are no real health issues! ;D

Am always for a good laugh. No, no real health issues. Wait, let me ask my shrink...

That requires a head pad (see below!), or a straight jacket and rubber room! The head pad could be a win/win as your shrink could be happy and your general practitioner will be happy, too, as it could also protect you from injury by the flippy screen! Also...your nose will NEVER cause any smears on that screen (flippy or not!), ever again.

 

[romanr74]

if it has an articulating screen this is the end of my 5d saga...

 

[infared]

You guys crack me up. Go rent a 70D.

Why would I do that? I have a 5DMark III???? LOL!

 

[Famateur]

I think WiFi functionality would be enough to address low angle shooting. I'd take Wifi over flip screen.

Disclaimer: I acknowledge that each will have his/her own preference, and that my opinion is just that.

Having used both WiFi with EOS remote and articulating touch screen extensively, I would take the articulating touch screen any day of the week over WiFi control via tablet/phone. WiFi with EOS remote has its uses and is appreciated, but it is simply too cumbersome, awkward and tedious to be practical (let alone enjoyable) in most of my shooting situations. It just doesn't even come close.

It you're shooting landscape or architecture or things that don't move, or animals you can't get close to, and you have enough time, and you have enough hands (or brackets?), WiFi and EOS remote will work. For most anything else, I just can't be bothered with:

1. Turning on WiFi ('cause leaving it on all the time drains battery)
2. Launching EOS remote, connecting device.
3. Holding/looking-at remote device to compose while positioning camera/lens.
4. Dealing with the lag between what's happening and what you see on the remote device.
5. Having no free hand (or having to add the bulk of a bracket to have a free hand).
6. Remembering to turn WiFi off when done with the shot that needs it.
7. Rinsing/repeating when low/high/odd angle is needed again.
8. And a whole gaggle of other potential hassles...

Versus:

1. Flip-out the screen to desired orientation.
2. Press Live View button.
3. Touch to focus. Immediately.
4. Take the shot(s).
5. Close the screen.

The articulating touch screen is simply a joy to use.

Just my opinion...