Touchscreen Coming to EOS 5D Mark IV? [CR1]

[Ozarker]

The one annoying assertion in this thread is that those of us who oppose a flip screen on the 5DIV have never used a flip-screen, thus our distaste and distain.

Those of you assuming this apparently have used a flip-screen and believe anybody who doesn't like it is ignorant or reactionary.

Wrong assumptions about human nature point to missing a lot of precious moments because you simply don't recognize them. Or you are adjusting your flip screen. ;D

You: 1. "You do have to use the touch screen if canon has removed the buttons!

2. Flip screens are for kids with toy cameras, seriously."

3. You also said it isn't a core improvement, just a "gimmick."

1. The buttons are not removed. There is still full control through buttons on all current Canon DSLR models. Thus your ignorance and probable non-use, or extremely passive use of any flip screen on a Canon. If you used a 70D you certainly were completely unfamiliar re: the buttons.

Nobody really cares whether you like the screen or not. Just know what you are talking about or ask somebody who does.

2. Name the toy cameras with touch flip screens. First define "toy" cameras.

3. Not a core improvement? That statement is just laughable. Those of us who use it know better. It is a fantastic core improvement.

Nobody cares whether you like it or not. Just know we can spot a troll when we see one.

Somebody else made the misinformed remark that a flip touch screen would change settings as his nose touched it.

Someone else suggested the camera could not be weather sealed.

Now you suggest that it is we, the users of the tech, who are misinformed as to your use or that of others. Nope. Your statements earlier in the thread prove your ignorance on the matter. You may have tried out a flip touch screen, but you certainly did not know everything can still be controlled through buttons. You are a smart man, however, you are ignorant concerning this.

I've had a 60D for nearly four years. I've found the touch screen useful in a few situations, certainly, but as stated before, I much prefer a body without a hinged flip-screen that changes ergonomics and tightness and adds a weak point.

Then if you have a 60D you know it does not have the touch screen you say it does. There you go again.

And wasn't it you who said that flip screen were for kids with toy cameras? No, you wouldn't call names at all.

Frankly, I couldn't care less what you would or would not prefer. I really don't. Just know what you are talking about, be honest, and don't lie.

That 60D touch screen? Wow.

 

[YuengLinger]

"Then if you have a 60D you know it does not have the touch screen you say it does. There you go again.

And wasn't it you who said that flip screen were for kids with toy cameras? No, you wouldn't call names at all.

Frankly, I couldn't care less what you would or would not prefer. I really don't. Just know what you are talking about, be honest, and don't lie.

That 60D touch screen? Wow."

Good catch, CanonFanBoy. My mistake. Typo. I meant flip-screen, as you can see reading the full sentence; that is what I HOPE the 5DIV does not have. I've been talking about flip screens mostly, but I also don't want a FUTURE camera that REPLACES buttons with touch only.

We who oppose the flip have just as much right to be passionate as those who desire it!

 

[Ozarker]

"Then if you have a 60D you know it does not have the touch screen you say it does. There you go again.

And wasn't it you who said that flip screen were for kids with toy cameras? No, you wouldn't call names at all.

Frankly, I couldn't care less what you would or would not prefer. I really don't. Just know what you are talking about, be honest, and don't lie.

That 60D touch screen? Wow."

Good catch, CanonFanBoy. My mistake. Typo. I meant flip-screen, as that is what I HOPE the 5DIV does not have. I've been talking about flip screens mostly, but I also don't want a FUTURE camera that REPLACES buttons with touch only.

We who oppose the flip have just as much right to be passionate as those who desire it!

Yup, they do have just as much right. I have no problem with that. Just don't make stuff up. Honest disagreement is fine.

The silly part of this whole thread is people objecting to something and making up completely bogus objections like, "Nose changing settings." or not having control via buttons or having to use the touch screen. It just is not true.

I've had the T5i and currently have the 70D (and 5D mark III) Both the T5i and 70D work flawlessly. Both can be controlled via touch screen or buttons.

I bought everything I have for pleasure. They are all toys.

 

[The Flasher]

I registered JUST to say this:

For all you people who think tillable and/or articulating screens are delicate or weaken a body, all I have to say is you must have very limited shooting experience.

- There has been no evidence of articulating screens being the source of numerous returns, warranty claims, or malfunctions.

- The usefulness of an articulating screen is incredible. Being able to shoot easily from different levels without having to contort your body into weird positions is a godsend, and if you think it's only when you shoot macro, again, I have to wonder what kind of shooting you do. And no, a 90 degree viewfinder won't help you when you're holding your camera above your head or dropping it close/on the ground. And have you ever tried to shoot yourself in a group? Do you know how much easier it is to flip a screen 180 degrees and get the framing right in real time?

- If you're worried about damage, you realize you can keep the screen locked in place, right? And that if it's an articulating screen, you can actually protect the screen even more by having it face the inside?

These arguments against tilting and articulating screens are tiring.

Here, here - a compelling first post.

All of the above. And I'll raise you dual, identical card slots.

 

[roxics]

What's the possibility that Canon will release two versions of the 5DmkIV? We already have the 5DmkIII, 5DS and 5DS R. I could potentially see them bringing the concept of the 1D C down to the 5D line and making a 5D C. At a premium price of course. Maybe even upwards of the same cost of a C100mkII. Then you'd have the choice of the more video ergonomic C100mkII at HD resolution in APS-C or the 5D C with 4K resolution in FF that can also shoot 12MP stills.

While they didn't change the body design on the 1D C compared to the 1D X, maybe the 5D C would have the flip out screen (and not the regular 5DmkIV) as it's more video oriented and maybe that's where this rumor stems from. I'm guessing here of course. Personally I don't think it's true because they would want to streamline their manufacturing process by making the bodies virtually the same like the 1D X and C. I also don't think that higher price would make a lot of people happy who want a 5DmkIV with all the bells and whistles I've described for the 5D C but at the traditional 5D price. I fall into that camp mysef. But Canon has a history of upping the price. So even if both cameras have the flip out screen, mostly because the C model benefits from the screen so the mkIV gets it by default as a result to save cost, there could still be a difference in sensors and software that make for a cost difference to the end user.

 

[roxics]

All of that said, maybe they just pull a Nikon D750 and put a tilt screen on the 5DmkIV and not a flip out screen. There seems to be this perception that tilt screens are more rugged and maybe that's true to a degree, although I've personally never broken a flip out screen or seen anyone who has. So I think that's more a perception issue than anything. Although there is something to be said about being able to tilt without having to flip out first. Personally I don't like the tilt as much, but it's still an improvement over a fixed screen IMO.

 

[sanj]

As usually nero your comments are extremely helpful in this argument.

I make my living as a wedding and event photographer so I'm just giving my opinion and seen as the camera is aimed at professionals in this field that is my opinion.

Yes, sometimes sarcasm is warranted. But responding to every post with sarcasm, especially when there is no substance to or justification for it, just seems childish.

Like you, Tom, I'm a little dumbfounded that people on this forum (which skews well off the norm when it comes to technology fascination) can be so technology resistant when it comes to change. Neither touchscreens nor flip screens are new or untested technologies. In fact, touchscreens have become the norm in almost every other area. It's about time the technology is incorporated into camera bodies.

Yes

 

[sanj]

If the tilt screen requires some adjustment to button placements, so be it. I can work around that for the benefit of the tilt screen.
Sooner or later tilt/touch screens will be part of most cameras.

 

[Ryananthony]

Im leaning towards the 5d4 having the same button lay out as the 5d3. With the release of the 7d2 having the same exact button lay out (minus the autofocus point selection lever.) I just don't see them switching the body style when I'm sure the 7d2 will be paired will a lot of 5d4s in a bag, as I'm sure a lot are now with the 5d3

 

[K-amps]

Nooooo...

The more gimmicks, the less chance of a sensor breakthrough.

Ok, maybe I could live with A rugged well executed touch screen. But a flip screen is just a hazard.

Of course. The is a mountain of evidence that flippy screens are a hazard and break all the time. I mean, just look at the countless threads on DPR and CR of people snapping off their screens. Biggest gimmick ever invented by mankind!

Seriously though, I bet the number of people hurting their back, knees, and necks from not having a flippy screen is many times greater than the number of flippy screens that have broken.

If the flippy screen is not put into a 5D4, it's because of the buttons on the left side, not because Canon can't make one strong and weather proof. Making a hinged screen weather proof and strong could be done by even the most incompetent engineers.

Edit:

A google search for broken articulating screens yielded nothing at all for me.

Here's a thread poll on POTN. Tons of users with cameras that have articulating screens. Failure rate is pretty much zero.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1017777&page=1

+1: Flippy screens are much helpful (as are touch screens) in Astro and Macro work. I am sure there are other uses as well. If you are scared of breaking it, keep it closed. ... Rather turn it around. Didn't Northrup or someone ruin 2 5d3's in rain, but the Tilty screened Olympus survived?

If Canon are the ones saying that it will affect weather sealing, etc. Please ask them to tear down an Olympus. I would not put much stock into an organization who is trying to make money, and we all know tilty/touchy screens reduce margins...

 

[tapanit]

There is no legitimate reason to object to a touch screen -- just myths. The only legitimate reason to object to a flip screen is that the hinge takes up additional real estate on the back of the camera, so the right-side buttons would need to be relocated.

Yes.

If given a choice between two otherwise identical 5DIV models, I'd be willing to pay a fair amount more for one with a flip screen.

 

[K-amps]

I would have to think Canon's efforts are best spent on making the sharpest pictures (IQ, low light, sensor, ISO) possible and leave the gimmicks to the lower tiered series (7 and 6). I cannot imagine many wedding photographers needing to shoot too many pictures from the hip and not look through the viewfinder.

Because 5D owners only shoot weddings. Come on.

I don't even want a flip screen but it's inevitable for a host of reasons.

And the argument that a flip screen is stealing resources from improving sensors don't hold water. The staff who work on those things are quite different in skillset -- "Sorry, world class sensor designer Dave and data handling / noise processing ringer Lisa, we need you to stop with your mission critical on-chip ADC work and knock out a flippy screen for us. Chop chop."

I appreciate a project has a budget and everything has a price, but it's not like in the planning stages of the project Canon could have traded away that proposed flippy screen for two stops more DR at ISO 100. Those are apples and oranges to deliver.

- A

That put a smile on my face. Well said!

 

[sanj]

Here is my take:

I know most of us take care of our cameras... we don't... no... we won't drop it. But it does still happen...
I've seen people carelessly leave a camera on a tripod in a crowded hall, where a bunch of kids run across tripping over wires which eventually take down a tripod with a camera on top. I would hate to see a pro camera with an articulating screen fully unfolded to fall side ways.

With that said, all the plastic non-pro cameras have articulating screens... go with that... it has a pop-up flash built-in too.

You want pro?
You're going to pay pro-cash for it, $3K-$4K...
Stop being cheap and buy yourself a field monitor if you want low angles. Its the same with flash, buy yourself a proper flash.

Still laughing........

 

[onlyme]

I expect canon marketing will decide if the feature is inevitiable on the 5dmkiv. That is they will probably look at the competition, such as:
Do they have tilt and touch screens?
How well do the competition sell wrt to the current 5dmkiii?
is the touch tilt screen going to be a must have feature? Are we going to lose sales if its not implemented.
etc.

They will consider the planned development, such as market disruption, core changes along with incremental features that the market demands. I dont profess to know the answers but one thing I am sure of, canon will not sacrifice usability of their pro camera range, so I doubt that buttons will be removed for a touch screen equivalent.

 

[JoFT]

For me the Flippy-Tilty touchscreen is more or less a must!


Panasonic has it since years. And since the GH3 Dust and weather sealed. Has anybody heard of broken ones????


The tilty flippy toouch has a couple of advantages. And one is the larger base of the camera if there is no tripod. And it gives more stability shooting.


And there is the style factor: it is looking so great seeing photographers laying on the ground.... ;-)


PS: I shoot with µ43 since 2009 - in addition to Canon FF & APS-C: Never had an issue with the Tilty-Flippy-Touch. But I love to use them!


And I hope Canon comes with a competitive live view autofocus

 

[YuengLinger]

I would have to think Canon's efforts are best spent on making the sharpest pictures (IQ, low light, sensor, ISO) possible and leave the gimmicks to the lower tiered series (7 and 6). I cannot imagine many wedding photographers needing to shoot too many pictures from the hip and not look through the viewfinder.

Because 5D owners only shoot weddings. Come on.

I don't even want a flip screen but it's inevitable for a host of reasons.

And the argument that a flip screen is stealing resources from improving sensors don't hold water. The staff who work on those things are quite different in skillset -- "Sorry, world class sensor designer Dave and data handling / noise processing ringer Lisa, we need you to stop with your mission critical on-chip ADC work and knock out a flippy screen for us. Chop chop."

I appreciate a project has a budget and everything has a price, but it's not like in the planning stages of the project Canon could have traded away that proposed flippy screen for two stops more DR at ISO 100. Those are apples and oranges to deliver.

- A

That put a smile on my face. Well said!

Neither well said nor based on anything stated in this thread.

What I said was that IF Canon hasn't come up with a sensor improvement, to fulfill the needs of a product release cycle, they might resort to using cosmetic or ergonomic changes. Apparently calling a flip screen a "gimmick" sent ahsanford into orbit, so he misread.

 

[Loswr]

And the argument that a flip screen is stealing resources from improving sensors don't hold water. The staff who work on those things are quite different in skillset -- "Sorry, world class sensor designer Dave and data handling / noise processing ringer Lisa, we need you to stop with your mission critical on-chip ADC work and knock out a flippy screen for us. Chop chop."

I appreciate a project has a budget and everything has a price, but it's not like in the planning stages of the project Canon could have traded away that proposed flippy screen for two stops more DR at ISO 100. Those are apples and oranges to deliver.

Lol. No, it's not about budget per se – it's about priorities based on perceived customer want/need. No doubt some on these forums – and many not on these forums – receive periodic market research surveys from Canon. Often they present lists of features from which a limited number can be selected. I know I've seen DR and articulating screens as choices. Personally, I didn't select the latter – Canon certainly knows what fraction of respondents did prioritize that feature over others.

 

[arthurbikemad]

I'm another that hopes no flip screen, not for me.. If you want such a thing buy one of those disposable canons like a 600D

 

[lidocaineus]

Excellent points, Don.

In my experience, however, the flip screen significantly changes the tight, solid feel of a body. On a second camera, fine, but on a primary body, such as the upcoming 5D4, I'm hoping this rumor is not true.

Remember my original post about tiring, old arguments? We get it. You don't like articulating screens. We heard you the first time, and then every. Single. Other. Post. On. Every. Page. Of. This. Article. Repeating. The. Same. Thing.

The reason the articulating screen fans are so baffled by this knee-jerk "NO!" to articulating screens is because the tech is well-established (old at this point), widely available, easily weather sealed, and if you don't want to use it, you don't have to use it – leave it in place. I challenge anyone to demonstrate where an articulating screen, in its in-place position, is any more "dangerous" than a fixed screen. In fact, I challenge someone to demonstrate where an articulating screen in the closed position is more prone to screen damage versus a fixed one. An articulating screen gives you more options and if correctly implemented, will provide little drawback.

I can respect someone's opinion, but it steadily erodes as you start hammering your point over and over. And over. And then add in inaccurate comments (there's no touchscreen on the 60D), or just weird ones, like favoring non-articulating screens because it makes a camera lighter and more solid. You do realize that articulating screens on Canon bodies have only been places on the mostly plastic and poly bodies right? And that by far is what contributes to light weight, not a minuscule screen hinge? Or you seem to have cornered the market on what pros do and do not do, or what constitutes a "toy" camera is, or that wedding photographers are the be-all end-all of photography with a 5D (and they would never use an articulating screen). Your unending method of repeatedly lording some obscure sense of superiority over everyone else has basically reduced your credibility to nil and transformed you into that crazy person on the corner standing on a soapbox screaming at passers-by, who are having normal conversations.

 

[YuengLinger]

Excellent points, Don.

In my experience, however, the flip screen significantly changes the tight, solid feel of a body. On a second camera, fine, but on a primary body, such as the upcoming 5D4, I'm hoping this rumor is not true.

Remember my original post about tiring, old arguments? We get it. You don't like articulating screens. We heard you the first time, and then every. Single. Other. Post. On. Every. Page. Of. This. Article. Repeating. The. Same. Thing.

The reason the articulating screen fans are so baffled by this knee-jerk "NO!" to articulating screens is because the tech is well-established (old at this point), widely available, easily weather sealed, and if you don't want to use it, you don't have to use it – leave it in place. I challenge anyone to demonstrate where an articulating screen, in its in-place position, is any more "dangerous" than a fixed screen. In fact, I challenge someone to demonstrate where an articulating screen in the closed position is more prone to screen damage versus a fixed one. An articulating screen gives you more options and if correctly implemented, will provide little drawback.

I can respect someone's opinion, but it steadily erodes as you start hammering your point over and over. And over. And then add in inaccurate comments (there's no touchscreen on the 60D), or just weird ones, like favoring non-articulating screens because it makes a camera lighter and more solid. You do realize that articulating screens on Canon bodies have only been places on the mostly plastic and poly bodies right? And that by far is what contributes to light weight, not a minuscule screen hinge? Or you seem to have cornered the market on what pros do and do not do, or what constitutes a "toy" camera is, or that wedding photographers are the be-all end-all of photography with a 5D (and they would never use an articulating screen). Your unending method of repeatedly lording some obscure sense of superiority over everyone else has basically reduced your credibility to nil and transformed you into that crazy person on the corner standing on a soapbox screaming at passers-by, who are having normal conversations.

If you read the sentence about the 60D, you'd have seen I typed "touch" by mistake instead of "flip," and then corrected the typo which.was.already.caught.by.another.poster.

As for hammering, you still don't get the point that I don't want a hinged device on a 5DIV. Whether or not the flip is kept in place or not, it still significantly changes the feel. It adds play, looseness, whatever you care to call it, and is just one more part that can break.

What baffles me is not your misunderstanding and misreading, but your insistence that those of us who don't share your opinion should be silenced. Many, many good reasons for having a flip have been posted in this thread, and I've acknowledged them. Posts like yours, which I don't mind correcting, are a big reason I keep responding.

Of course I know a 60D doesn't have touch--I've owned one for four years. I prefer the tight feel of my 5DIII and the fact it has no external moving parts. If you understand that, I don't have to hammer the point anymore!