Up the game

[UrbanVoyeur]

If Canon put a high DR sensor packaged with a POS AF system, lethargic burst rate, and poor weather sealing in the 5DIII, I'd be shooting Nikon right now. It just so happens that Canon created an extremely well balanced machine in the 5DIII, so I cancelled my D800 order.

I am quite the opposite. I'd snap it up. A body is just a vehicle to get the best sensor behind my L glass, nothing more. I don't need fancy metering or AF modes. I don't care about burst rate or weather sealing. I don't even care whether the AF works at less than f/2.8. The lenses I use regularly are all 2.8 or faster.

I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

 

[1982chris911]

I have a D800 on order, but after following the Nikon forums and editing some of the raw images on my I7 equiped PC with plenty of memory and fast SSD, I'm beginning to wonder.

Besides cameras that don't focus, cameras that lockup (workaround reportedly doesn't work), batteries that overheat or explode, editing is extremely slow on the 50+ mp raw images I downloaded, no way could I edit 1500 or 3000 images in a reasonable time, I have to wait 30 sec or more for a simple edit like NR to update and let me proceed.

I was saying this already some weeks ago ... and still there are a lot of wannabe D800 owners that say that the filesize of the camera is not a problem with a modern computer/mac ... But that is exactly what my feeling about the camera was when I had one in my hands ... great piece of tech IQ wise, but unpractical in so many other ways (when compared to the 5D MK III) ...
to some extend the D800 here also compares to MF cameras in this regard ...

 

[Viggo]

Please name ONE thing that was better with the 5d2 than the 5d3?

 

[Ivar]

The 5D2 was a revolutionary camera at the time announced. I consider this pretty big deal.

Please name ONE thing that was better with the 5d2 than the 5d3?

 

[V8Beast]

I am quite the opposite. I'd snap it up. A body is just a vehicle to get the best sensor behind my L glass, nothing more. I don't need fancy metering or AF modes. I don't care about burst rate or weather sealing. I don't even care whether the AF works at less than f/2.8. The lenses I use regularly are all 2.8 or faster.

It sounds like the D800, or Nikon crop bodies like the D7000 or D5100, are the ideal tools for your needs, then. If DR impacts your images that much, and you're willing to deal with the hassle of switching systems, the choice seems pretty clear at this point Or you can just pick up some Nikon gear, go dual systems, and decide if you're going to go all Nikon at some point later down the road. I just don't see this issue as something to lose sleep over

 

[psolberg]

It is interesting that 5D3's comparison base is 5D2. D800 is being compared to Leica S2 and PhaseOne IQ180.

"5D3 is far better than 5D2, especially in handling, JPGs, and AF."

versus

"D800 comes close to MF like S2 and IQ180 in other aspects, but clearly fails in midtones."

yup. I look forward to the 5Dmk4. But having just switched to a D800, I see no reason to enjoy it for 4 more years. If the 5D4 is better, and if the D900 fails to impressed, I'll be back.

 

[UrbanVoyeur]

It sounds like the D800, or Nikon crop bodies like the D7000 or D5100, are the ideal tools for your needs, then. If DR impacts your images that much, and you're willing to deal with the hassle of switching systems, the choice seems pretty clear at this point Or you can just pick up some Nikon gear, go dual systems, and decide if you're going to go all Nikon at some point later down the road. I just don't see this issue as something to lose sleep over

L lenses and their Nikon equivalents are $2,000+ a piece. And it's not one body, it's two or three. It's not a small investment or a trivial decision. But yes, if Canon continues to lag behind on senor quality over the next few years, then switching will make be more attractive.

 

[altenae]

It sounds like the D800, or Nikon crop bodies like the D7000 or D5100, are the ideal tools for your needs, then. If DR impacts your images that much, and you're willing to deal with the hassle of switching systems, the choice seems pretty clear at this point Or you can just pick up some Nikon gear, go dual systems, and decide if you're going to go all Nikon at some point later down the road. I just don't see this issue as something to lose sleep over

L lenses and their Nikon equivalents are $2,000+ a piece. And it's not one body, it's two or three. It's not a small investment or a trivial decision. But yes, if Canon continues to lag behind on senor quality over the next few years, then switching will make be more attractive.

I would not call it "to lag behind"
Use both and you see what I mean.

Most of the time in real world photography there is more then only DR and the DXO numbers.

 

[Kernuak]

"D800 comes close to MF like S2 and IQ180 in other aspects, but clearly fails in midtones."

To me, midtones are far more important than DR. Ok, so you might be able to process the RAW to get more out of the midtones, but that takes time and processing power. I have a 3-4 year old Macbook and that struggles with the RAW files from the 5D MkII, a similar vintage machine. I upgraded my desktop around a year ago and recently replaced the Macbook to cope with the large files from my 5D MkII, but I'd hate to think how much more power I'd need to cope with the output from the D800.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Please name ONE thing that was better with the 5d2 than the 5d3?

Although my 5D MK III is definitely a improvement in almost all ways over my 5D MK II, here are some things not so good.

1. Price ($1300 premium)

2. AF points that can see to put the active focus point on the subject in low light.

3. Ability to use interchangable focus screens.

Otherwise, my 5D MK III performs very well, and the new sensor is worlds better, just pull up blacks 4 or more stops and see how clean it is.

 

[RunAndGun]

I am quite the opposite. I'd snap it up. A body is just a vehicle to get the best sensor behind my L glass, nothing more. I don't need fancy metering or AF modes. I don't care about burst rate or weather sealing. I don't even care whether the AF works at less than f/2.8. The lenses I use regularly are all 2.8 or faster.

I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Like I said, a DSLR has to be looked at as a whole system(the AF, the sensor, the "drive speed", etc.). And you have to look at what you need in a system. If you don't need an AF system capable of shooting sports, or a high frame rate and are only concerned what the sensor can do, then those parts of the system can take a back seat for you and you try to find a system that suites your needs the best. If that isn't the 5DMKIII, that's fine, I'm sure there are a lot of people who won't choose it for whatever reason and get a camera that they feel best suites their needs. But I think it's a dis-service to others to throw out what seems like a blanket statement that it is a disappointing and underwhelming camera just because you feel that it does not meet your needs/expectations.

 

[KeithR]

I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

 

[UrbanVoyeur]

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

www.urbanvoyeur.com
Please note that the work on UrbanVoyeur prior to about 2005 was done primarily on Fuji Chome film and EOS film bodies.

http://www.amazon.com/Young-Dancer-Life-Ailey-Student/dp/B005M4RQGU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336408030&sr=8-1
This book was shot on various Canon digital EOS bodies.

Edit:
My work is not any more demanding than anyone else's. And I am sure that many others can do what I do better and with lesser equipment. I just know what I want and how like to work, and if a truly superior sensor is out there, I want to use it my system, because I know I can do with it. Like film, a sensor is only a tool.

 

[UrbanVoyeur]

But I think it's a dis-service to others to throw out what seems like a blanket statement that it is a disappointing and underwhelming camera just because you feel that it does not meet your needs/expectations.

I think the 5DMkIII is a very impressive camera, with a less than impressive sensor. Therefore, I am underwhelmed.

 

[DavidRiesenberg]

How many stops do you think there are in a typical concert setting?

 

[UrbanVoyeur]

How many stops do you think there are in a typical concert setting?

40? 60 ?
Every real world scene vastly exceeds the dynamic range of film or digital sensors. The trick is figuring out which real world values you want to map to the range of the sensor/film, and how much relative distance (contrast) you want between them That is the essence of the Zone system.

For example, your film or sensor may be able to capture 12 stops of range. Any object relatively brighter than six stops from the middle is a solid blown out highlight and any thing below stops from center is a solid blocked up shadow.

So you decide that the whitish flower in the hair of the singer should have detail (+6 to +4), the dress (+3) and the skin (+1 to -1) can fit in the scale too. Mic handle (-4) and the hair of the background singer (-6). The rest falls outside the range.

This is a crude example, and not meant to be a real world condition, but it illustrates the idea.

Greater DR at a given ISO is important because it allows me to pack more tonal information into a representation of a scene.

 

[Tcapp]

I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

Nothing wrong with wanting the BEST quality available, even if you don't "need" it.

I'll shoot photos of my kid with my 5d3. I don't "need" that quality, but I like to always at least try to take the best photo possible. That is the essence of being an artist. You don't ever want to settle for something less. You strive for perfection in everything you do with your art. If you don't, you aren't going to make it as a professional.

I've been shooting with the 5d2 for years and had no problems. But I upgraded to 5d3 on day one because I wanted every little bit of extra quality I could get. The ergonomic upgrades are bonus. Yeah, I care more about that tiny bit of extra high iso quality than even the updated AF.

So calling people out because they want to take the best photos possible? Great idea. Great way to expose yourself to some great art.

 

[ScottyP]

I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

So can we get an official ruling here? Is he "served" at this point, and if so, per CR protocol, is "it on"?

 

[Tcapp]

I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

So can we get an official ruling here? Is he "served" at this point, and if so, per CR protocol, is "it on"?

Brodown!

 

[sach100]

I just need the best "film". And by best I mean the sensor with the highest resolution, widest DR, widest color gamut and lowest noise in my primary shooting range - 100-800. More DR means I have more zones to work with before I clip. That's vital.

Oh, really..?

Care to let us see an example of your work? It must be extraordinarily demanding, if you can only accomplish it when all of those criteria are met - in fact I can hardly believe that you've been able to make a single image so far.

So let's see what it is that you simply couldn't do with a lowly 5D Mk III then - we obviously have much to learn here.

For the avoidance of any doubt, yes, I'm "calling" you on this.

Given the amount of 5d3 bashing that's going on in this forum i've come across quite a few regular posters lose their cool. So it's ok to be wrong at times.

Not that UrbanVoyeur's points are invalid, it's simply a matter of fact that canon hasn't improved every parameter that could have been improved. Will canon deliver "superior" DR in their next generation of releases - i bet even canon might not know at this point of time. Some of us can wait it out /switch /complain and hope some of the reasonable demands find their way into the next generation of canon cameras. There are others who will buy the 5d3 FWIW and find ways to get the best out of what the camera can deliver.

Nevertheless, I can't wait to see (and get some of my own) all the beautiful images that WILL come out of this crappy sensor.

http://www.TimothyCapp.com

Nice baby pics Mr. Dad! and congratulations to you guys!!