*UPDATE 3* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

[grog13]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

It can't possibly be 1.5". The lens would be bigger and 3x as heavy as the current camera. 1/1.5" (hmmm...a lot like 2/3" isn't it ) is more like it. A teeeeny bit bigger than the current 1/1.7", but probably not enough to really make room for 14 mp without giving up some ISO / DR performance. Canon seems to be content with the low light & DR performance of all its subframe cameras, and just tries to maintain that level while adding pixels. This is not what I want in either a compact or a crop-frame DSLR............

 

[stavreski]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

Ok, about sensor sizes.

According to the next article on dpreview:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2002/10/7/sensorsizes

When some company says we have made x" sensor, they are actually saying that the sensor diagonal is roughly two thirds of that number x in inches. (It's an old '50s tv standard. The number x is the size of the tv tube, not the sensor itself).

Accordingly, Nikon 1 system has a 1" sensor, which is NOT a 25.4mm diagonal, but two thirds of that number, or roughly 17mm which is roughly true (16mm is closer).

So, using the above math, a 1.5 inch sensor has a diagonal of 25.4mm, or a sensor a bit larger than 4/3" (22.5mm)

Hope this helps,

Stavreski

 

[swblackwood]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

8) I think we need to wait for something official. If it is 1/1,5, that would make it the same size as the Fuji x10 but still smaller than the Nikon V1. If it is 1.5", that that would make it quite a large sensor and something to celebrate, even without interchangeable lenses.

One thing I haven't noticed mentioned: does it have IS??

 

[Meeklo]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

No viewfinder listed in specs...

 

[samthefish]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

It drives me crazy the different ways sensor sizes are described. for me I wish they would just say "x"mm by "y"mm.

I'm planning on getting a Fuji X10 shortly. I doubt the G1X will make a difference in my decision as I like the Fuji for build quality / size / good enough photo quality. Also is a few hundred less it looks like.

SamTheFish

 

[Caps18]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

It sounds like a great camera for travelers and lightweight packers. If my iPhone can't take good enough photos in certain situations, this would be a good choice for when I can't bring the 5Dm2.

 

[Deleted member 20471]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

Is this a CR3 rumor?

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

Maybe it is not the only alternative, look at http://www.avcemporium.com/image-sensor-sizes/

1/1.5 is 24x16

Yes, did you actually look at that? What they're calling 1/1.5 in that table (Raster Sizes for Various Focal Length Multipliers) is the focal length multiplier, i.e. a 1.5x crop factor which is Nikon's APS-C format.

Note that 1/1.5 ≠ 1/1.5". 1/1.5" = 2/3" which is much smaller than APS-C, and also smaller than the CX sensor in the Nikon 1 (which is approximately a 1" sensor).

 

[shorthand]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

I am going to reverse myself and say that upon further reading:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2002/10/7/sensorsizes

That I think that the G1X sensor is more-or-less APS-C sized with a 4:3 aspect ratio.

That makes sense with the price point and is a very interesting value proposition.

 

[stark-arts]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

Canon Rumors guy got this wrong - it's been floated that this would be bigger than m43 for a while...this camera is designed to attack the fuji's and the sensor size is correct...not the correct CR guy one but the one posted...

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

Canon Rumors guy got this wrong - it's been floated that this would be bigger than m43 for a while...this camera is designed to attack the fuji's and the sensor size is correct...not the correct CR guy one but the one posted...

Might I ask how you know this with any certainty?

What does that mean in terms of the lens? The quoted spec is 'f/2.5-16' and if that's as correctly quoted as the 1.5" sensor, then based on how apertures are printed on the lens, it means f/2.5 max aperture at the wide end and f/16 max aperture at the long end. I really doubt they'd release a camera that only opens to f/16 at the long end, so I believe that that spec is indicating the total aperture range (i.e. f/2.5 max aperture at the wide end, some unknown max aperture at the long end, and a minimum aperture of f/16 throughout the range - that improves on the G12 which is f/2.8 max and f/8 min).

So, if the Wells Fargo analyst isn't relating the information on the aperture in the standard/conventional way, what makes it certain that the sensor is being specified properly?

Bigger than m4/3? Ok, conservatively slot it between that and the Canon APS-C and give it a 1.9x crop factor. That means a 28-112mm FF-equivalent lens is really a 15-59mm lens, with f/2.5 at the wide end. That means it's got to be substantially bigger than the m4/3 kit lenses, the smallest of which (Oly 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6) is 2.5" long when retracted. The PowerShot G12 is 1.9" deep - do you think Canon will release a G1X that's well over 3" deep, probably closer to 4" deep? If it has a sensor bigger than m4/3, it would have to be...

 

[NotABunny]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

The reason why the sensor can't be 1.5" is the lens, not the price. The lens must cover the entire sensor (otherwise it's pointless to have a big sensor). Remember how big the 24-105 lens is? And that's an F4 even at 24mm.

 

[marinien]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

The reason why the sensor can't be 1.5" is the lens, not the price. The lens must cover the entire sensor (otherwise it's pointless to have a big sensor). Remember how big the 24-105 lens is? And that's an F4 even at 24mm.

I do not think that comparing lenses designed for (D)SLR and lenses designed for "mirrorless" system is appropriate (see "Lens Genealogy" by Roger Cicala). And I believe that that's why Neuro used the Olympus m43 kit lens for his example. Otherwise he would have used the 17-55 f/2.8 lens (shorter focal range, smaller apurture) instead.

 

[polpaulin]

Re: *UPDATE 2* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

for that price you get a Sony Nex 5n with aps-c sensor

 

[moreorless]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

8) I think we need to wait for something official. If it is 1/1,5, that would make it the same size as the Fuji x10 but still smaller than the Nikon V1. If it is 1.5", that that would make it quite a large sensor and something to celebrate, even without interchangeable lenses.

One thing I haven't noticed mentioned: does it have IS??

The G1X is going to be in much more direct competision with the X10 than it is the V1 though, similar product in a similar price range. Given that manifacturers have always shown alot of inertia in terms of sensor size with fixed lens digital it seems to make sense Canon is looking to equal the X10 then potentially depend on the brand name and superior funcationality to sell it.

 

[unfocused]

Re: *UPDATE 2* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

I agree, this is a competitor to the Fuji X10. I believe others have indicated that Canon considers Fuji to be the only competitor they are really concerned about. And, there is probably good reason for that.

Canon and Nikon have been competing for decades and know each other inside out. Canon (right or wrong) doesn't seem overly concerned about interchangeable lens mirror-less cameras. But, Fuji successfully negotiated the transition from film to digital (while Kodak didn't) and they now how a couple of extraordinarily popular retro-rangefinders that tap into the lucrative enthusiast market. (Not to mention new organic sensor technology that could be a complete game-changer if their claims are close to true)

Looking forward, Canon may see the point-and-shoot market being killed off by camera phones; feel that interchangeable lens mirror-less cameras are just an passing fancy and that the future lies with cameras focused on enthusiasts with discretionary dollars.

I'm not saying they are correct, I'm just speculating.

Bottom line though, in this case, I think it's pretty obvious that the G1X is focused right at Fuji. (In which case, I'm anxious to learn more in order to see what justifies the price premium over the X10)

 

[hmmm]

1/1.5 = 2/3 -- vs. 1/1.7

If we are talking 1/1.5", that is the same as 2/3". The sensor surface area would be over 30% bigger than the 1/1.7.

That is a nice bump up, but when compared to the N1 or the Sony NEX intro models at very roughly the same price it is less than impressive. What could have made it more competitive is to start at 24mm wide, but that evidently is not the case.

I hope stavreski is on the right track, and we are talking about a sensor of roughly APS-C dimensions.

Or it could be the rumor is just bogus. Ah well, we'll see...

source for sensor numbers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_sensor_format

 

[roger]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

Is this a CR3 rumor?

Same question. If it's real, then maybe I'll have to rethink my shopping plan.

 

[kapanak]

Odd ... Why not just go APS-C, Canon?

If this rumoured camera really does have a 1.5″ sensor, then it would be roughly 24mm diagonally. If we assume the aspect ratio is 3:2, as is with large Canon sensors, then that would put this at 20.0 mm x 13.3mm … which is an odd size, given the fact that the Canon APS-C is 26.70mm diagonally, and its dimensions are 22.20mm x 14.80mm … Why not just use your own APS-C Canon …

 

[swblackwood]

Re: *UPDATE* Canon PowerShot G1X Revealed

8) I think we need to wait for something official. If it is 1/1,5, that would make it the same size as the Fuji x10 but still smaller than the Nikon V1. If it is 1.5", that that would make it quite a large sensor and something to celebrate, even without interchangeable lenses.

One thing I haven't noticed mentioned: does it have IS??

The G1X is going to be in much more direct competision with the X10 than it is the V1 though, similar product in a similar price range. Given that manifacturers have always shown alot of inertia in terms of sensor size with fixed lens digital it seems to make sense Canon is looking to equal the X10 then potentially depend on the brand name and superior funcationality to sell it.

$200 price difference isn't much in terms of competitiveness. But you could well be right. I hope not.