*UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
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Fleetie said:Gcon said:stefsan said:
That's my experience exactly with the 7D. Essentially that's how it is when you pack too many pixels in too small an area. Very disappointed by the IQ of that camera - the rest of the functionality is great though. Good for its price point but can't compete with a full frame on IQ. I'm pinning my hopes on a 5Dx that combines the best of 7D (or even some 1Dx features like AF) with that of the 5D Mark II. I'll sell my 7D and 5DMarkII and get a couple of 5Dx bodies
I would be VERY interested to read the responses of those who say that pixel size does NOT affect noise in images, and that it is only sensor area that matters.
Does that claim survive reductio ad absurdum? I think not.
No, it does not, but then again we are not dealing with that in the real world and 22MP vs 18MP vs 36MP is anything but reductio ad absurdum. And again, don't forget that specialized NR is much better than simplistic 'bins' due to lower MP count.
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Fleetie said:
The 7D is not a bad camera. I don't like the nature of the images it takes.
My 40D was "ok" but first started a trend that carried into my 50D and then the 7D.
The main difference across these generations was more pixels, same space.
To me, pixel size impacts the quality of the image generated.
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With regard to people discussing the issue of pixel size versus noise, in modern sensors there are two issues and associated technologies which collaborate to eliminate the problem almost entirely.
Specifically micro lenses and back lit sensor technology. To actually have separate pixels you have to physically separate them with "walls" this was a big issue which impacted noise until the advent of micro lenses. These essentially magnify the incoming light so that none of it is wasted hitting anything but photo sensitive material and bend it around non-photo sensitive material. The second issue is that sensors for whatever reason have all their wiring on top instead of on the bottom at certain points that wiring can block enough light to affect noise, back lit sensors are wired under the photo cells not above, which solves this issue.
In any case though DSLR sensor technology is far from using the most advanced sensor tech possible. In fact DSLRs use some of the least advanced sensors made because they have a lot of light gathering area. Compact cameras use the most advanced sensors because economies of scale and extremely small sensors make it cost effective to do so.
Canon's most light sensitive sensor is found on a compact camera not a DSLR. If Canon used it's most advanced sensor tech in a full frame sensor it would output 210 megapixels, and have identical noise to the D3s, which is still almost a stop better than the 5DII.
So no technically speaking increases in resolution do not correlate with noise.
The problem is though that ECONOMICALLY speaking resolution does correlate with noise. Having advanced sensor technology is expensive and so is having high resolution. Two cameras one with high resolution and one with low noise would probably could be made for less than one camera which has both. That is why there is often a trade off, otherwise the sensor costs way too much to manufacture.
Canon actually used some of the least advanced sensor technology possible in the 5DII so it will be easy to make it leaps and bounds better in noise with increased resolution. At the least you can expect a quarter of a stop improvement in noise. At best you can expect a full stop. Likely it will be a half stop improvement.
Specifically micro lenses and back lit sensor technology. To actually have separate pixels you have to physically separate them with "walls" this was a big issue which impacted noise until the advent of micro lenses. These essentially magnify the incoming light so that none of it is wasted hitting anything but photo sensitive material and bend it around non-photo sensitive material. The second issue is that sensors for whatever reason have all their wiring on top instead of on the bottom at certain points that wiring can block enough light to affect noise, back lit sensors are wired under the photo cells not above, which solves this issue.
In any case though DSLR sensor technology is far from using the most advanced sensor tech possible. In fact DSLRs use some of the least advanced sensors made because they have a lot of light gathering area. Compact cameras use the most advanced sensors because economies of scale and extremely small sensors make it cost effective to do so.
Canon's most light sensitive sensor is found on a compact camera not a DSLR. If Canon used it's most advanced sensor tech in a full frame sensor it would output 210 megapixels, and have identical noise to the D3s, which is still almost a stop better than the 5DII.
So no technically speaking increases in resolution do not correlate with noise.
The problem is though that ECONOMICALLY speaking resolution does correlate with noise. Having advanced sensor technology is expensive and so is having high resolution. Two cameras one with high resolution and one with low noise would probably could be made for less than one camera which has both. That is why there is often a trade off, otherwise the sensor costs way too much to manufacture.
Canon actually used some of the least advanced sensor technology possible in the 5DII so it will be easy to make it leaps and bounds better in noise with increased resolution. At the least you can expect a quarter of a stop improvement in noise. At best you can expect a full stop. Likely it will be a half stop improvement.
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the only invite i've seen for a Canon event in the next few days clearly headlined the "IXUS" lineup at the center of the invitation.
I'm starting to believe that is all we will see.
Why would they announce a 5DX/III with a headline of "IXUS"?
On other invitations for big DSLR releases, the nature of the invite was much more mysterious and dramatic.... why would an IXUS headline the invitation and the next 5D be an afterthought......
I really, really hope that i'm wrong or there is other invitations/events I don't know about.
I'm starting to believe that is all we will see.
Why would they announce a 5DX/III with a headline of "IXUS"?
On other invitations for big DSLR releases, the nature of the invite was much more mysterious and dramatic.... why would an IXUS headline the invitation and the next 5D be an afterthought......
I really, really hope that i'm wrong or there is other invitations/events I don't know about.
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malchick743
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+1 I want to see that invite too...simonxu11 said:
In fact, have been wondering if there will be a press launch in my area this Friday also but there's no one I can speak to. Inquiries to local tech press people will definitely run straight into the brickwall. Local photo forums are generally crap speak and I find those site useless.
Craig@CR rarely leaks media event information in open domain, unlike Peter@NR. Why?
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Musouka
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Sorry, guys. Nokia has officially won the MP race 
Nokia 808 Pure View Phone Has a 41-Megapixel Camera. FORTY-ONE ACTUAL MEGAPIXELS.
That's it... goodbye Canon :
Nokia 808 Pure View Phone Has a 41-Megapixel Camera. FORTY-ONE ACTUAL MEGAPIXELS.
That's it... goodbye Canon :
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Cooljoe57
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Musouka said:Sorry, guys. Nokia has officially won the MP race
Nokia 808 Pure View Phone Has a 41-Megapixel Camera. FORTY-ONE ACTUAL MEGAPIXELS.
That's it... goodbye Canon :
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malchick743
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What professional ethics?chengpenguin said:I guess to safeguard their own reputation... Professional ethics also.
IMO There's not much of a reputation when it comes to rumors/leaks sites. At least most company PRs won't welcome like this kind of information siphoning.
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I have spent a while today searching for the image I saw and I cant find it anywhere. It definitely has been seen by people in other forums, I saw it randomly searching rumors websites i hardly ever visit late last nightmalchick743 said:
people are talking about it in post 4057 and 4067 here
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?p=13968571&highlight=ixus#post13968571
it was on the front page of a totally random photo website, and seemed to be what CR guy was talking about. It said nothing but "speed" "quality" "IXUS" and some other non descript stuff. it wasn't very dramatic and was very colorful. I wasn't very excited when i saw it. I wish I could find it again, if someone has the link i'd appreciate it too as I'm going a little crazy right now trying to figure out where I saw it.
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Tijn
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Wow. I know they're Zeiss lenses, but can such a small thing really outresolve 41mpx? :-XMusouka said:Sorry, guys. Nokia has officially won the MP race
Nokia 808 Pure View Phone Has a 41-Megapixel Camera. FORTY-ONE ACTUAL MEGAPIXELS.
That's it... goodbye Canon :
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