*UPDATE* The Next 5D on March 2, 2012 [CR3]
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PowerShotG2
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
I think Canon mostly deals with pros and agencies for feedback not consumers. Their pricing on this 5D MkIII and G1X reflect a bias towards professional photography. I have no problem with that, but at the consumer level, I do ask that they:
1) improve the APS-C sensors because they can't compete against 1.5x Sony sensors used by Nikon.
2) improve Live View focus time.
3) offer a better thought out consumer grade EF-S lens system including primes for crop bodies.
4) improve service for consumers - currently it is a sloppy experience at best.
Canon needs to do better to distinguish the market for EF and EF-S lenses and the same for EOS bodies.
Currently, they mix it all up without marketing the advantages of FF or crop properly. If I'm shopping for a Toyota, don't show me a Lexus. It makes the customer feel like they are getting an inferior product.
Another factor is the amount of information and innovation in digital cameras. Canon does not have the proper leadership to adjust to these changes. I won't blame people for focusing on the price because a $3500 5DMkIII means the 7D MkII and 70D will be higher also. The pro and consumer lines are the same brand.
I hope that the professional photographers that have access to Canon can explain this to them.
I think Canon mostly deals with pros and agencies for feedback not consumers. Their pricing on this 5D MkIII and G1X reflect a bias towards professional photography. I have no problem with that, but at the consumer level, I do ask that they:
1) improve the APS-C sensors because they can't compete against 1.5x Sony sensors used by Nikon.
2) improve Live View focus time.
3) offer a better thought out consumer grade EF-S lens system including primes for crop bodies.
4) improve service for consumers - currently it is a sloppy experience at best.
Canon needs to do better to distinguish the market for EF and EF-S lenses and the same for EOS bodies.
Currently, they mix it all up without marketing the advantages of FF or crop properly. If I'm shopping for a Toyota, don't show me a Lexus. It makes the customer feel like they are getting an inferior product.
Another factor is the amount of information and innovation in digital cameras. Canon does not have the proper leadership to adjust to these changes. I won't blame people for focusing on the price because a $3500 5DMkIII means the 7D MkII and 70D will be higher also. The pro and consumer lines are the same brand.
I hope that the professional photographers that have access to Canon can explain this to them.
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milo
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
This is not a bad camera, but it doesn't look like a 5D replacement. This is more a Full Frame version of the 7D.
Unlike the 5D Mk II, which was a step up in every respect, this camera will appeal to only a subset of users. I am sure that are users who welcome the new AF points and FPS, but for me it's pretty much worthless. The only big improvement I needed from Canon in this area is with low-light AF.
I will take huge gains in image quality over megapixels, like the advantage that Foveon originally had. But, the 1Dx sample photos really did not impress me overall, and I question whether IQ in the 5D Mk III will be the equivalent of a downsized D800 other than maybe at some ridiculously high ISO. The next best thing to huge IQ improvement is more megapixels, especially in terms of cropping, and the D800 looks like a masterpiece of a camera from every angle.
The dual card slots is great, but the CF/SD approach seems a little half-assed.
Canon will be in major trouble if they don't have a new FF DSLR coming out, perhaps at Photokina, as there is no way this camera can hold the fort for another 3 years.
Right now, the D800 is a game changer in the same way that the original 5D and 5D Mk II was. The 5D Mk III may be a godsend for some people, and I am happy for them, but overall it is a lackluster introduction.
This is not a bad camera, but it doesn't look like a 5D replacement. This is more a Full Frame version of the 7D.
Unlike the 5D Mk II, which was a step up in every respect, this camera will appeal to only a subset of users. I am sure that are users who welcome the new AF points and FPS, but for me it's pretty much worthless. The only big improvement I needed from Canon in this area is with low-light AF.
I will take huge gains in image quality over megapixels, like the advantage that Foveon originally had. But, the 1Dx sample photos really did not impress me overall, and I question whether IQ in the 5D Mk III will be the equivalent of a downsized D800 other than maybe at some ridiculously high ISO. The next best thing to huge IQ improvement is more megapixels, especially in terms of cropping, and the D800 looks like a masterpiece of a camera from every angle.
The dual card slots is great, but the CF/SD approach seems a little half-assed.
Canon will be in major trouble if they don't have a new FF DSLR coming out, perhaps at Photokina, as there is no way this camera can hold the fort for another 3 years.
Right now, the D800 is a game changer in the same way that the original 5D and 5D Mk II was. The 5D Mk III may be a godsend for some people, and I am happy for them, but overall it is a lackluster introduction.
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
If those specs are correct I can easily see myself cancelling one of my 2 1DX orders.
Maybe both.
If those specs are correct I can easily see myself cancelling one of my 2 1DX orders.
Maybe both.
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Neeneko
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
I think in general people are willing to pay more for significant improvements.. but this represents a significant price increase for not much gain, then discontinuing of the old model. This raises the threshold of getting a FF camera from Canon, which will also effect what the used market will look like since fewer people are going to drop the extra cash for a camera that seems overpriced compared to the value of its predecessor.
Granted, some people are really excited about the new AF and see that as worth it.. others.. not so much. It kinda seems like the only significant improvement listed which means if AF is not on your list of needs, it isn't very much.
tooslick2k said:
I think in general people are willing to pay more for significant improvements.. but this represents a significant price increase for not much gain, then discontinuing of the old model. This raises the threshold of getting a FF camera from Canon, which will also effect what the used market will look like since fewer people are going to drop the extra cash for a camera that seems overpriced compared to the value of its predecessor.
Granted, some people are really excited about the new AF and see that as worth it.. others.. not so much. It kinda seems like the only significant improvement listed which means if AF is not on your list of needs, it isn't very much.
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
just keep in mind -
$3500 rumor price could be anything real price...
Neeneko said:
just keep in mind -
tooslick2k said:
$3500 rumor price could be anything real price...
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
That sounds more like a 7DII than a 5dmkiii
Lee Jay said:
That sounds more like a 7DII than a 5dmkiii
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Wont happen, it would eat up the sales of the 4K Cinema DSLR and that's definitely going to be a more expensive camera. I'm sure it will have improved video, hopefully reduced moire and less banding, no rolling shutter. All of that seems possible considering video on the 5DII was an afterthought.
skoobey said:
Wont happen, it would eat up the sales of the 4K Cinema DSLR and that's definitely going to be a more expensive camera. I'm sure it will have improved video, hopefully reduced moire and less banding, no rolling shutter. All of that seems possible considering video on the 5DII was an afterthought.
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
I am interested in battery compatibly as I got burned from 5D to 5DII battery incompatibility as I have 8 batteries (two gripped 5D2's uses 4, and then 4 spare).
Along those lines I have have no inclination to use SD cards. They are small and annoying because they are much easier to lose that CF cards. I hate them. I have 4 32GB CF cards and would rather have all 4 stuffed into two bodies, just like the 1Dx. Go away SD!
The price is understandable. With the D800, Nikon have forced their hand to release the 5Dx. They would have liked to have sold a metric tonne of 1Dx before announcing the 5Dx but it's too late - the 5Dx has to come out. As they don't want too many potential 1Dx buyers to defect to 5Dx, they are upping the price of the 5Dx to dissuade them, and if they do go to 5Dx, they'll at least get a fair profit from these people. It's priced higher than the D800 but not *too* high to cause Canon users to switch, and they'll trumpet better features. New users might go the Nikon though if it's too much of a price premium.
Once the 1Dx has been out for say 6 months, then Canon will drop the price of the 5Dx to really start to compete with the D800, rather than be high to dissuade 1Dx users and gouge the early adopters (like me).
I might still see value in this 5Dx *if* it has great weather sealing, high frame rates, and other pro features.
I am interested in battery compatibly as I got burned from 5D to 5DII battery incompatibility as I have 8 batteries (two gripped 5D2's uses 4, and then 4 spare).
Along those lines I have have no inclination to use SD cards. They are small and annoying because they are much easier to lose that CF cards. I hate them. I have 4 32GB CF cards and would rather have all 4 stuffed into two bodies, just like the 1Dx. Go away SD!
The price is understandable. With the D800, Nikon have forced their hand to release the 5Dx. They would have liked to have sold a metric tonne of 1Dx before announcing the 5Dx but it's too late - the 5Dx has to come out. As they don't want too many potential 1Dx buyers to defect to 5Dx, they are upping the price of the 5Dx to dissuade them, and if they do go to 5Dx, they'll at least get a fair profit from these people. It's priced higher than the D800 but not *too* high to cause Canon users to switch, and they'll trumpet better features. New users might go the Nikon though if it's too much of a price premium.
Once the 1Dx has been out for say 6 months, then Canon will drop the price of the 5Dx to really start to compete with the D800, rather than be high to dissuade 1Dx users and gouge the early adopters (like me).
I might still see value in this 5Dx *if* it has great weather sealing, high frame rates, and other pro features.
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Neeneko
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Quite true, and I would not be surprised if it was lower. Just going over why people are reacting the way they are, at least in part.
Though personally, I am mostly hoping that whatever it is, it pushes down the used market prices for some of the current gen bodies. I would love to see the 1Ds3 down in my price range for instance.
Chuck Alaimo said:
Quite true, and I would not be surprised if it was lower. Just going over why people are reacting the way they are, at least in part.
Though personally, I am mostly hoping that whatever it is, it pushes down the used market prices for some of the current gen bodies. I would love to see the 1Ds3 down in my price range for instance.
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
In addition to hopefully full 1DX what if it has:
vastly better video with no moire/aliasing/full RGB per pixel/much better SNR
7fps vs 4fps (although if you don;t care about the better AF you prob don't care about this either, granted)
those aren't minor things by any means
and we could hope it also has:
2.5 stops better usable DR at ISO100 (although I have doubts, but to match Nikon it would basically need this)
2/3 stop better SNR
Neeneko said:
In addition to hopefully full 1DX what if it has:
vastly better video with no moire/aliasing/full RGB per pixel/much better SNR
7fps vs 4fps (although if you don;t care about the better AF you prob don't care about this either, granted)
those aren't minor things by any means
and we could hope it also has:
2.5 stops better usable DR at ISO100 (although I have doubts, but to match Nikon it would basically need this)
2/3 stop better SNR
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
has video too. uncompressed HDMI too. I hope the 5DIII has that as well as a headphone monitor both of which are glaring omissions on the 1DX. fps wise, unless canon can push 1080p60, it will be unlikely to have anything over the D800 then.
doubtful. same AF as the 1DX = no f/8. I wouldn't say nikon trails at all. A10 points difference isn't going to matter. plus we know how capable the AF in the nikons is and has proven itself time to time. canon still needs to prove itself so how can you tell?. At best they will be equal if canon puts it out of park. The nikon also focus down to -2EV which is an improvement over their prior gen and will really help it in low light. So lets give canon credit, but let's not deceive ourselves. They are not really surpassing nikon in any meaningful way.
I don't know if that's a killer feature the OP is talking about. "The battery grip feels gripper" doesn't sound like a bullet point in marketing. But ok. I'll take your word for it. I've never held a D800 with a grip.
Sepeculation about tomorrow doesn't sell cameras today. Nikon will have something else, Sony will have something else, Canon will have something else. who cares if you're buying today?
Let me tell you the real differentiator for canon since all you said is well, trivial. High ISO will be better on the canon because of the low MP count and FPS will be better. However one has to wonder the wisdom of that because it looks the 5DIII competes better with the 1DX than the D800 which from the start decided not to be an action/sports body. Canon however can exploit that gap in nikon's lineup....assuming nikon doesn't fill it in with a full frame D400/D800s. THAT'S the "killer" feature for canon. In other words, nikon swapped places with canon in this segment. Canon now has the speed demon. Nikon has the studio/landscape body. Both should gain market although I think the fact canon isn't the only video capable body this time (remember D700 had no video at all) will certainly level the field.
has video too. uncompressed HDMI too. I hope the 5DIII has that as well as a headphone monitor both of which are glaring omissions on the 1DX. fps wise, unless canon can push 1080p60, it will be unlikely to have anything over the D800 then.
doubtful. same AF as the 1DX = no f/8. I wouldn't say nikon trails at all. A10 points difference isn't going to matter. plus we know how capable the AF in the nikons is and has proven itself time to time. canon still needs to prove itself so how can you tell?. At best they will be equal if canon puts it out of park. The nikon also focus down to -2EV which is an improvement over their prior gen and will really help it in low light. So lets give canon credit, but let's not deceive ourselves. They are not really surpassing nikon in any meaningful way.
I don't know if that's a killer feature the OP is talking about. "The battery grip feels gripper" doesn't sound like a bullet point in marketing. But ok. I'll take your word for it. I've never held a D800 with a grip.
Sepeculation about tomorrow doesn't sell cameras today. Nikon will have something else, Sony will have something else, Canon will have something else. who cares if you're buying today?
Let me tell you the real differentiator for canon since all you said is well, trivial. High ISO will be better on the canon because of the low MP count and FPS will be better. However one has to wonder the wisdom of that because it looks the 5DIII competes better with the 1DX than the D800 which from the start decided not to be an action/sports body. Canon however can exploit that gap in nikon's lineup....assuming nikon doesn't fill it in with a full frame D400/D800s. THAT'S the "killer" feature for canon. In other words, nikon swapped places with canon in this segment. Canon now has the speed demon. Nikon has the studio/landscape body. Both should gain market although I think the fact canon isn't the only video capable body this time (remember D700 had no video at all) will certainly level the field.
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
Regardless of whether or not $3500 is too much to you and others, there are still enough people willing to pay $3500 that I'm sure there will be a waiting list at first. I know there are people that really wanted one, but if you can't afford something you can't afford it. Canon makes plenty of other cameras that cost less than that, so if $3500 is too much then people can always get something else. I
I dont get why people expect a bargain basement price on one of the most highly-anticipated cameras of all-time. I mean I know everyone wants everything for as cheap as possible, but if I complained about everything I wanted but can't afford I would be bitching for the rest of my life.
Chuck Alaimo said:
Regardless of whether or not $3500 is too much to you and others, there are still enough people willing to pay $3500 that I'm sure there will be a waiting list at first. I know there are people that really wanted one, but if you can't afford something you can't afford it. Canon makes plenty of other cameras that cost less than that, so if $3500 is too much then people can always get something else. I
I dont get why people expect a bargain basement price on one of the most highly-anticipated cameras of all-time. I mean I know everyone wants everything for as cheap as possible, but if I complained about everything I wanted but can't afford I would be bitching for the rest of my life.
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
I suspect there may be a piece of information on the camera that Canon is keeping extremely quiet, kinda like when Apple did the whole iPad keynote and ended with "$499!" when everyone had been speculating it would be $999.
psolberg said:
I suspect there may be a piece of information on the camera that Canon is keeping extremely quiet, kinda like when Apple did the whole iPad keynote and ended with "$499!" when everyone had been speculating it would be $999.
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
This is very exciting, but like others in this thread I am anxious to also see the ISO performance of this new camera. While it has a top graded AF system, if the ISO performance is more or less the same as the current 5D, I will have to look at the 1DX for an upgrade path.
I also wonder how much delays we will see between announcement date and availability..
This is very exciting, but like others in this thread I am anxious to also see the ISO performance of this new camera. While it has a top graded AF system, if the ISO performance is more or less the same as the current 5D, I will have to look at the 1DX for an upgrade path.
I also wonder how much delays we will see between announcement date and availability..
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photochemist
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
The specification listed are probably good for those in sports, action, photojournalist, and similar photography that want something similar to the 1DX without the high price tag. However, for us landscape photographers it really is not much of an improvement. I am not concerned about the price and am willing to pay a reasonable amount for a professional camera. However, since I don't care about fps, have never used video, and have good success with the 5D Mark II autofocus, I don't really see an improvement for my work. I would be willing to pay more for a higher MP camera with slightly improved autofocus and 4 fps. Unless there is another ff body coming soon, that was rumored earlier with these specifications, I will not upgrading my current 5d II. I will remain a Canon client anxiously awaiting a professional body designed for us landscape photographers.
The specification listed are probably good for those in sports, action, photojournalist, and similar photography that want something similar to the 1DX without the high price tag. However, for us landscape photographers it really is not much of an improvement. I am not concerned about the price and am willing to pay a reasonable amount for a professional camera. However, since I don't care about fps, have never used video, and have good success with the 5D Mark II autofocus, I don't really see an improvement for my work. I would be willing to pay more for a higher MP camera with slightly improved autofocus and 4 fps. Unless there is another ff body coming soon, that was rumored earlier with these specifications, I will not upgrading my current 5d II. I will remain a Canon client anxiously awaiting a professional body designed for us landscape photographers.
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Re: The Next 5D on February 27/28, 2012 [CR3]
well said sir. 2/3's of the people in this thread are more worried about how will they look next to a guy shooting with a D800 than what the 5DIII can do for them. seriously are you guys that insecure? I couldn't care less about the D800 because it isn't what I'm looking for. Likewise I'm sure D800 shooters couldn't care less about the 5DIII if they are bying the nikon for its strenghts. get over it, there is no king of all cameras. the 5DII wasn't perfect either.
kede said:
well said sir. 2/3's of the people in this thread are more worried about how will they look next to a guy shooting with a D800 than what the 5DIII can do for them. seriously are you guys that insecure? I couldn't care less about the D800 because it isn't what I'm looking for. Likewise I'm sure D800 shooters couldn't care less about the 5DIII if they are bying the nikon for its strenghts. get over it, there is no king of all cameras. the 5DII wasn't perfect either.
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