*UPDATED* Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

[kevl]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

I was quite happy using floppy disks but someone took away the floppy disk drives *cry*

Please explain how the difference between a floppy disk (8" 5.25" or 3.5" take your pick) and a USB drive, or rewriteable CD (either of which could be argued to be a direct replacement) is the same or even similar to the difference between a CF card and a CFast card. You're just being silly.

Depends on your perspective. As a group, they are all removable media supporting reading and writing of data, so you could easily lump them all together. You also forgot ZIP and JAZZ drives, along with PCMCIA form factor hard drives (which you could easily compare with CF cards as CF cards plug straight into PCMCIA slots - with the right adapter.)

There are two differences between them: speed and the form of the media itself.

Each one has its place in history and as time moves on, the older formats and connectors get lost and are no longer used.

In other words the differences between them are not at all similar to the differences between CFast and CF cards. Hint the ONLY differences between CFast and CF cards are form factor, speed, and price. None of which could help the 5D purchaser.

If there is an advantage to adopting new technology that outweighs the cost of doing so then it makes sense to do so. If there is not, it does not. As has been discussed for about 8 pages, there is no advantage to the 5D purchaser to put CFast cards in the 5DIV.

Let me rephrase that for you.

There is no advantage to the 5D purchaser, from the perspective of those that want to keep their CF cards, for CFast to be in the 5DIV.

No that is not what I wrote. You are not rephrasing it you are creating a strawman to burn while avoiding the fact stated. Other than that you did really really good. Very convincing....

At some point in time I fully expect that it will be cheaper for Canon to design in and support CFast than it will be for CF. Whether that comes before or after the performance requirements push the camera there is another thing.

Whoa really? That's a pretty amazing prediction there buddy! You must have a special crystal ball.... #CaptainObvious

Why will it be cheaper, you ask?

No I didn't ask. Please quote the things I actually state and answer the questions I actually ask if you want anyone to take you seriously.

Because the bus used to connect to CF is no longer native to modern computer design, so extra components will be required to interface CF to the rest of the camera that would otherwise not be required for CFast.

Wowzers! You have awesome powers of understanding! #CaptainObvious

So now that you've pulled your internet pud for a post how about you go back and actually answer the questions and deal with the point.

Or don't.. you're not required to. There's none of them thar laws here for you to be obligated to follow.

 

[kevl]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Does Canon need to force users to adopt a new standard that isn't compatible with the other bodies 5D purchasers are likely to own?

Nope: http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/lexar-media-lexar-professional-cfast-2-0-64gb-525mb-s-compact-flash-memory-card-lc64gcrbna3500/10416744.aspx?path=4697c5a4fa77a56941d116745c177e92en02

3500x 445MB/s write 525MB/s read.

There will come a day when the camera needs to do something that CF cards cannot accommodate but that day is not today.

If you want a camera that uses CFast cards & your Canon glass this one is currently available. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1221604-REG/canon_0931c016_eos_1d_x_mark_ii.html

 

[zim]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

OK so looks like WiFi and GPS confirmed.
No surprises there really, I do hope both can be completely switched off when not required though

 

[Ulric Wolf]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

There was a great deal of consensus that something around 20MP was a sweet spot for many photographers. We've hovered around there for some time for good reason, and there was praise for Canon for resisting the temptation and pressure from the marketing dudes when the 5DIII shipped with 22MP.

There was a great deal of consensus that something around 10-12MP was a sweet spot for many photographers. We've hovered around there for some time for good reason, and there was praise for Canon for resisting the temptation and pressure from the marketing dudes when the 1DIII shipped with 12MP.

Hmmm, I guess it's all about timing...

Exactly. Magazines are going away, as well as every printed form of pictures (not talking about artwork). For me 30MP would be sweet spot for now, I guess it will be a must after 4 years, what is expected life circle of this camera...

 

[pedro]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

What is with all this blurry shot stuff?

I put a lot of stock in real user experience, and I have not seen a lot of complaints from actual 5D s owners.

I can understand concerns about 30mp for the following reasons:

High ISO performance: Will there be sacrifices in High ISO performance with a 30mp DPAF sensor (I can't imagine the 5DIV NOT being DPAF)? If the 1Dx went from 18 to 20 mp DPAF with little improvement in high ISO performance, it's hard to imagine that the 5DIV will see much improvement in high ISO performance going from the same generation (as the 1Dx) 22 mp sensor to the same generation (as the 1Dx II) 30 mp DPAF sensor.

Storage and editing: This has been debated ad infinitum. Not going to start up that debate again, but it is certainly legitimate for people not to want to see their file sizes increased by nearly 50% unless there is a distinct benefit to the larger file sizes, and for many if not most users, it's unlikely to be the case. This is more of an issue for users (like myself) who use and preserve multiple layers in Photoshop (so I can go back and re-edit later if needed), since each layer is going to increase the file size.

Just me, but it seems like the blurry picture argument is the least legitimate concern about a 30 mp sensor.

Intresting questions...

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

@kevl – the fundamental problem is that you're having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

I would expect that at 50MP you'd need to be 4x and that is where a four-stop IS lens comes into play.

It's great that IS counteracts subject motion in dilbertland. Out here in reality where the rest of us live, it doesn't work that way.

 

[kevl]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

@kevl – the fundamental problem is that you're having a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Which is entirely my fault...

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

...
[1] you are confusing reducing a problem (that I do not believe exists) with aiming to get the best possible quality out of an expensive camera. Not taking full precautions to remove camera shake risks reducing the Phase 1 to little more than a 30MP DSLR. Taking all precautions makes the Phase One vastly superior regards image quality. Big difference in the two propositions.

With film cameras, the rule of thumb was 1/focal-length for "sharp" pictures due to grain size.

No it wasn't.

It was because the 'standard' for average eyesight is an 8"x10" print viewed from 12". That standard still holds true too and is what defines the circle of confusion, and explains why they are different for different sized sensors. The reason we demand more now is because we are making those 12" prints from ever smaller crops of that 135 format sensor size.

 

[Deleted member 7828]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

Not a fan of more MP. I'd be ok with a minor bump to 24, but 30...lukewarm reaction from me, perhaps even slightly disappointed. Could even be the deal-breaker that convinces me to stick with the 5D3, but let's see final specs, reviews, test shots, etc...

The biggest concern to me with more MP is high ISO performance taking a hit or remaining stagnant while higher shutter speeds are required to get sharp shots (forcing higher ISO settings in a given lighting). IF high ISO performance were improved to the point where there wouldn't be an IQ penalty for the 1/3 to 2/3 stop higher shutter speeds needed, it may be fine. While IS can help compensate when shooting still subjects, it doesn't help with subject movement (common with event shooting). (Aside: I hear people talk about the downsizing argument, but I've taken sample shots with the 5DS, took the blurry/non-sharp ones, and still wasn't happy with them downsized to 22MP...YMMV.)

File size is another consideration, demanding larger cards and more processing power.

HOWEVER - I AM encouraged at the thought of remaining with CF/SD and not forcing expensive CFast investment.

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

It was because the 'standard' for average eyesight is an 8"x10" print viewed from 12". That standard still holds true too and is what defines the circle of confusion, and explains why they are different for different sized sensors.

I'm sorry, but the term "circle of confusion" is obsolete and has been replaced by "CanonRumors confusion"

 

[Ph0t0]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

I would expect that at 50MP you'd need to be 4x and that is where a four-stop IS lens comes into play.

It's great that IS counteracts subject motion in dilbertland. Out here in reality where the rest of us live, it doesn't work that way.

He is clearly talking about the rule of thumb, which was always meant to help people work out their shutter speed only when shooting still subjects. At least out here in reality where the rest of us live we never used the rule of thumb to determine shutter speeds when shooting moving subjects. But hey.. perhaps in neuroland you can use the rule of thumb to shoot race cars, people, aircraft just as well... all based just on the focal length

With film cameras, the rule of thumb was 1/focal-length

 

[takesome1]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

It was because the 'standard' for average eyesight is an 8"x10" print viewed from 12". That standard still holds true too and is what defines the circle of confusion, and explains why they are different for different sized sensors.

I'm sorry, but the term "circle of confusion" is obsolete and has been replaced by "CanonRumors confusion"

Reading many of the threads on this forum and seeing how they go round and round I think the two terms are interchangeable.

 

[gmrza]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

I have to admit I'm surprised by 30mp. I guess I am in the minority, not caring about higher mp counts. I do wonder what the high ISO performance will be like. I expect that it will match the 5D III, but may not exceed it. (Just like the 1DX and 1DX II)

Perhaps sensors have pretty much reached their upper limit on ISO and the major improvements in the next few years will be dynamic range at base ISO and increased megapixel count?

Expanded touchscreen use is a welcome addition. I hope that eventually Canon unlocks some added functionality for the 1DX II -- Going through the "Q" and regular menu by touch would be nice.

Surprised also by the lack of CFast. With only video and the 1Dx using CFast I guess I can't expect the price to drop much anytime soon. I kind of hoped the added demand of a 5D would drive down the price.

Anxiously awaiting more info.

In some respects more MP will mainly satisfy marketing needs. To be able to exploit that, you need the right glass. As you rightly point out, it will be interesting to see what the benefits are beyond ISO 100.
For many professional users of the 5DIII, it can produce prints (or other final images) large enough for clients. In fact we have seen the forums here mention of the 5DIII being used to produce billboard advertising.
Given that we have the 5Ds, that already satisfies the needs of genuine high MP requirements.

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

I would expect that at 50MP you'd need to be 4x and that is where a four-stop IS lens comes into play.

It's great that IS counteracts subject motion in dilbertland. Out here in reality where the rest of us live, it doesn't work that way.

He is clearly talking about the rule of thumb

With film cameras, the rule of thumb was 1/focal-length for "sharp" pictures due to grain size.

He is clearly talking about something he doesn't understand. But that's the norm for dilbert.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

It was because the 'standard' for average eyesight is an 8"x10" print viewed from 12". That standard still holds true too and is what defines the circle of confusion, and explains why they are different for different sized sensors.

I'm sorry, but the term "circle of confusion" is obsolete and has been replaced by "CanonRumors confusion"

Yes :

I realize this is a rumors site that predicates a lack of known facts, but the amount of time people just make shit up when trying to 'explain' to others really is depressing. We don't need to ignore facts when talking about rumors do we?

 

[Don Haines]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications

It was because the 'standard' for average eyesight is an 8"x10" print viewed from 12". That standard still holds true too and is what defines the circle of confusion, and explains why they are different for different sized sensors.

I'm sorry, but the term "circle of confusion" is obsolete and has been replaced by "CanonRumors confusion"

Yes :

I realize this is a rumors site that predicates a lack of known facts, but the amount of time people just make S___ up when trying to 'explain' to others really is depressing. We don't need to ignore facts when talking about rumors do we?

At least three things remain constant......

First, If any given Nikon or Sony spec is bigger than the equivalent Canon spec, it means the sudden and fiery death of Canon, and if any given Nikon or Sony spec is smaller than the equivalent Canon spec, it means the sudden and fiery death of Canon..... And if they are the same, it means that Canon does not innovate and leads to the sudden and fiery death of Canon.

Second, for some inexplicable reason, despite the impending sudden and fiery death of Canon, they still outsell the competition.....

Third, it is a well known fact that Canon will not put any feature in any camera except the 1DX2 because of a plot to protect sales of the flagship model...... This in spite of the fact that it the lower models, outselling the 1DX2 by thousands of times (tens of thousands?), that keeps them profitable and the lights on at the factory and is where the new features tend to show up first........

 

[tpatana]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I'm quite sure my still picture quality would go down if they use CF instead of CFast.

Canon is doomed.

 

[tron]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I'm quite sure my still picture quality would go down if they use CF instead of CFast.

Canon is doomed.

And I guess this includes your previous version cameras as well ;D

 

[Loswr]

Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications & Image

I'm quite sure my still picture quality would go down if they use CF instead of CFast.

Canon is doomed.

And I guess this includes your previous version cameras as well ;D

No, those simply just stop working when the new model comes out.